wessy

I have had a look at a LNWR marshalling circular and a Lancaster and Carlisle timetable for 1910, and the answer seems to be 'no'. It seems that the map could be a little relaxed about some of the details of services. For example, there were services from Liverpool Exchange (LYR) which went to Carlisle via the old East Lancashire Railway main line to Preston, but they were LNWR trains with LNWR stock. The LNW and LYR had a very good working relationship and LYR carriages went from Colne to Euston and to Windermere, but none seem to have been scheduled for Carlisle. Of course, there is nothing to stop a nice family saloon or some horseboxes passing through.

The LNWR use of Croydon Central may help you. This was the station at the end of a very short branch from the LBSCR main line and it closed in the 1890s, to be replaced by Croydon Town Hall. I have a copy of the LNWR public timetable for 1879 and it shows several LNW trains from Kensington, and at least a daily one from Willesden low level. I know that Croydon is more 'outer London' than Brighton Trafalgar, but 'Rule 1' may apply. Unfortunately, tank engines would be the usual power. At that time, it seems that the connections for LNW services from the north were at Willesden, where passengers would change for Kensington or Clapham Jct. If changing at Willesden, with luck one might meet this young lady, as painted by Tissot.

Gary, if you are a member of the Brighton Circle, there was a talk about Croydon Central as part of the on-line 'Virtual Blatchington' meeting in September 2021. There is a LBSCR track plan in there. The short branch was double track and there were two platforms Each had an engine release crossover, each one leading to a release line which went beyond the platforms and joined the opposite running line. I.e., the down platform release line joined the up running line and vice versa. This meant that the two release lines crossed over each other by a diamond crossing. There was then a scissors crossing further along the running lines to enable a loco to return to its train and also to facilitate correct line running when leaving the station.

"Regarding the size of the sheet, I note Mike @airnimal's statement that LNWR sheets were 19' 6" X 15' 5" before 1910: though he doesn't say where this info is from. Cross and Essery don't give dimensions for LNWR sheets, but their drawing suggests they were shorter and wider than the later standard of 21' x 14'4". " I think that these dimensions were quoted in 'LNWR liveries' by Talbot, Dow, Millard and Davies (HMRS 1985). They continue by stating that the later sheets were 21'6" by 14'5" to suit the larger high-sided wagons then in widespread use.

And neither does it invalidate it. Such precise information is unlikely to be a complete invention, but as Barry Lane does not specify the colour, but does state that they were coloured it may be that the source is now lost. In which case no-one can prove the colour to be wrong. Barry is an active participant in the LYR Society. Would not an enquiry to the Society be more useful than a debate on here?

The book on LYR locomotives by Barry Lane states that number plates on locos were painted to indicate the builder, but he doesn't state the colours. However Nock's history of the LYR lists them as follows: Beyer Peacock Green Kitson Blue Miles Platting Vermillion Neilson Chocolate Sharp Stewart Indigo Vulcan Foundry Light blue No colour was recorded for Dubs engines. Presumably although the colours were applied until the opening of Horwich and the ending of the use of outside builders, the number plates would not be repainted until the loco wwas.

The interior is almost restrained in comparison. My memory suggests that is was a royal carriage. I too have been to this museum. There is a splendid collection of rolling stock and some superb models. The whole place has the feel of a proper museum rather than a visitor experience. Its about half a mile from the station so is easy to find if you are ever in Nurnberg.

They had through carriages from the midlands to Cromer, and (from memory) Ipswich as well.

There is detail in Vol 3 of Marshall's history of the LYR. Some of the detail repeats that in Rush's book of 1949 and will have been extracted from Hawkshaw's list of June 1850. The 2-2-2s eventually comprised a class of 82 locomotives. 32 were built at Miles Platting, 20 by Fairbairn's and 30 by Bury, Curtis and Kennedy. Principal dimensions: Driving wheels 5' 9" (Bury and some Fairbairn engines), 5'10" for the rest Leading and trailing wheels 3'6" Boiler 4'2" x 10'1.5" Overall length 21'6"

The photo from the Swiss archive (also reproduced in Barry Lane's book on LYR locomotives) and the photo posted by Bill Bedford show some of the challenges to be found in early LYR loco history. Both are from Jenkins 2-2-2 tender engines but show different boilers, safety valves and outside steam pipes. Lane states that the engine in the Swiss photo was no. 70 rebuilt as a 2-4-0 in 1868 and scrapped in 1877. The livery was green and the dome and chimney top were copper. Numbers were carried at the front of the loco and the rear of the tender. The cut out in the footplate side sheet is to accommodate a Giffard injector. The modern view is that Jenkins was a competent locomotive engineer but hamstrung by a Board who did not want to invest in anything, preferring to pay large dividends instead. In his early years on the LYR he had the dubious benefit of having a Sir John Hawkshaw as Chief Engineer whose strengths, like Brunel further south, did not lie in the field of locomotive engineering and design.

Many of the drawings published in The Engineer and used in articles by Ahrons are also in his volume 'The British Steam Railway Locomotive 1825-1925.' It is 390 pages of pure joy and is often available second hand via Abe or other such sites. This one is certainly in the book.

There is a book 'Locomotives of the LNWR Southern Division' by Harry Jack which contains a similar drawing of the standard McConnell tender. The drawing is stated to be a Wolverton drawing of 1861. Jack also includes a list of the principal dimensions for the standard 6-wheel, short wheelbase tenders as follows: Wheel diameter 3'9" (12 spokes) Wheelbase 5'6"+5'6" Length excluding buffers 18'4" Tank length 15'6" Tank width 6'6" Tank height 3'6" Fuel space length 8'6" Fuel space width 3'6" Well length 12'6" Well width 3'6" Well depth 1'10" The concave coving fixed along the top outer edge of the tank rose from 4" at the front to 12" at the back.

Dave, I too have seen this before. I've looked through the British Railway Journal and it was on p269 of number 46 (spring 1993 - but the issue dates rarely matched when it was actually issued). The site is stated to be the Agar Town road vehicle yard and the picture is recorded as being taken in late 1914.

It is difficult to tell, but I think all 14". The 12" numbers (Jenkinson suggests) were generally applied after renumbering on the duplicate list.

Gareth, I've had a look in 'Locomotive liveries of the LMS' by David Jenkinson. He summarises he lettering of locos from 1928 ' ...six different basic colour combinations were also adopted, sometimes without apparent consistency'. However he then suggests the following:- Plain gold - most plain and some lined black engines Plain yellow - plain black engines only. He also states that the Crewe preference was to paint rather than use transfers (a Midland technique, and therefore abhorrent) and that the pale yellow used for lining red engines was used. After a few months this looked very similar to weathered gold transfers. So it's probably for you to decide and dare anyone to prove you wrong!

When asked the same question, didn't George Best say something like 'some of it I spent on drink and women, and the rest I wasted'.

I've had a look in a couple of LNWR working timetables for GWR goods trains going through Stockport. There are a few, but they were not stopping trains although there were limited stops at important traffic hubs. In general the trains arrive in the early hours and leave in the evenings In the July 1888 WTT there were three GW express goods which came from Gresty Lane and terminated at Ordsall Lane with stops at Edgeley, Longsight and then via London Rd. Arrivals were at 2.30am, 6.20am and 8.55am, and departures from Ordsall Lane were at 8.25pm, 9.30pm and 11.5pm (all Mondays excepted). In the October 1909 WTT, the arrivals were at 2.30am, 5.24am and 7.10 am. The 2.30 arrival would be routed by the Styal line if the special express goods from Gresty Lane to Leeds was running. (Although the special express goods is noted as starting from the GW yard at Crewe, it is not labelled in the timetable as a GW train.) The only departure listed was at 9.0pm (Saturdays excepted). On Saturdays the departure was still at 9pm, but it would pick up at Longsight and Heaton Norris if required. There is no indication of what happens to any of these trains on the other side of Gresty Lane. This is all more information than is needed to help build models, but it all adds to the overall picture! Tim Birch.

SAD is a definite issue in the winter. I have found that a small SAD lamp, no bigger than A5 can be plugged in next to my work table (its not grand enough to be a bench). This means that it is close enough to my eyes to be a benefit, and it doubles as a very good lamp for modelling with. I got mine off eBay.

Robin, This is developing into a lovely layout and is just the sort I would like for myself. I don't know if you have seen the book published by HMSO for the RCHM in 1984 on the Liverpool south docks. It is available via Abe and contains inspirational drawings and photos of the docks south of Pier Head. I thinks that it is a bit further upstream than your proposal, but it may be interesting anyway! It is 'Liverpool's historic waterfront. The world's first mercantile dock system' by Nancy Ritchie-Noakes. ISBN 0 11 701188 6.

It is also worth remembering that in groups of sidings, individual ones were often designated for particular traffic, including exchange with other companies. The attachment shows the designation of some of the sidings at the south end of Bamfurlong just south of Wigan on the WCML as they were used in 1919.

Chris, One thing I forgot to mention was that the foam blunts blades quite quickly. after not much use, the blade may be sharp enough to cut the card facing but will begin to pull on the foam and not give a tidy edge which makes gluing more difficult and the joins less accurate. Best wishes, Tim Birch

Chris, Unfortunately I can't take a photo as I demolished the layout about three years ago. However, the following may help. I have attached another photo of the layout on a floor where the tiles were 12"square. I used 5mm foamboard for all the main structure, although some small section timber was later added to the rear of the back scene as it was rather fragile for moving to an exhibition. For the same reason, some timber (off cuts of Skirting board) was used at the front to give some support to a cover. This was definitely more timber than was really needed and must have added about 1/3 to the weight of the layout. The dimensions were approximately 48" by 15" - foamboard encourages a relaxed attitude to dimensions! There was then a 15" 'fiddle stick' at the end. The main structure was built rather like your plywood boards. Sides and cross members of about 4" at 15" spacing gives plenty of strength and diagonals can be added as desired. I found that two helped to prevent any twist. All gluing was done with a hot glue gun. The sides and ends were then overlaid by another layer of the foamboard cut to profile and also one to act as a back scene. Point control was by rod and micro switch via holes in the fascia as shows in the picture. I think that the key things are to use it like plywood but don't be afraid to laminate layers or use butt joints. Also if it doesn't feel strong enough, just keep adding the foamboard as it will add almost nothing to the weight. One thing to think about is how to protect the layout - something I did not do adequately at first hence the added timber. An alternative is to keep the thing in a box. I did this with a small 5.5mm diorama/inglenook layout which fitted into a storage box from Ikea. Here it is, all 26"x10"x12". The whole exercise was very enjoyable and relaxing so my suggestion would be to just try something out and play around with the concept. Best wishes, Tim Birch

Chris, I would certainly recommend trying 5mm foamboard. So long as it is sufficiently braced and I think includes a certain amount of strip wood at the corners, it works well. I have built a couple of small layouts using it - both in the mainstream scale of 5.5mm:foot. I liked the way things went together quickly and easily and were easy to modify.

Rod, There are two photos of 1457 on an auto train at West Kirkby in 1954 (taken by Casserley) in the book 'Railway stations of Wirral'. This was published by the Merseyside Railway History Group in about 1990. If you have not got this paperback it is worth tracking down as it is full of lovely photos of all the lines on the Wirral. ISBN 1899241 1 02 7. Also, I have looked in my reprint of the 1948-50 ABC and another 14xx is listed at 6C Birkenhead - 1417. Stay safe and best wishes, Tim Birch

Although JPL don't have a website, they now do have a presence on eBay.