MartinTrucks

I did not suggest that anyone else WAS producing wagons for the SR. The SR produced open wagons for the LNER but I am unsure whether the ironwork on those was black or grey.

My apologies, I don't seem to be getting informed of any new postings on this topic. The black patch originated during WW2 when LMS timber-bodied open wagons were being produced new with all ironwork black and timber unpainted except for a patch where the owner, tare and running number were painted in small (3"?) lettering. Open wagons built by/for the SR during this period were similarly finished. Regards, Martin

Much the same information is contained in 'The LMS Wagon' by Essery and Morgan starting on page 15. The paint specs that follow are based (as stated in the text) on 1935 specs.

'LMS Wagons Volume Two' by Essery, page 152.

The post-1934 grey contained blue and less black compared to the pre-34 shade. It was significantly lighter, possibly too light for white lettering.

This begs the question as to what proportion of LMS vehicles were painted in the lighter grey, as this was only in use between 1934 and 1937. Not sure whether it has been mentioned previously, but there was a gap of some months between the implementation of the RCH reduced size lettering and the LMS' adoption of Bauxite for the body colour. Some vehicles were built with small lettering on light grey. https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/474558.html Best regards, Martin

My MR-301A 1609 in BR black arrived today - Great Joy! I unboxed it and have admired it on the shelf all day while sitting at my desk. This evening I had the opportunity to give it a run but -Deep Sadness! - it is completely dead! The Hornby Peckett works perfectly on the same track. I've removed the body thinking that the blanking plug might be loose but to no avail. A phone call to Kernow will be made asap.

Reminds me of the days when I could afford a brand new car, with all the service recalls! Martin

Didn't GWR and LMS banana vans have adjustable ventilators on the ends? Best regards, Martin

If anyone really wants to become a banana dribbler, I recommend 'Fyffes and the Banana: Musa Sapientum: A Century History 1888-1988' by Peter N.Davies. https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?full=on&ac=sl&st=sl&ref=bf_s2_a1_t1_1&qi=wMivhTOvhv5y8301SyBFtN9xpn4_1497963026_1:29:57 Enjoy! Martin

The brown on van No.56046 on your layout looks a bit odd. Is it different to the models below or just a feature of the lighting? Best regards, Martin

Possibly, John. An interesting question. Perhaps the car served an unofficial 'club' of Ramsgate first class commuters? - Breakfast and a 'snorter' (if desired) in the morning and drinkies and dinner on the return. Martin

My reference was the June 1953 Appendix to Carriage Working Notices from the files of the BRCoachingStock group on io. The appendix shows set 237 containing 10 vehicles (the 'extras' obviously being included for the summer season) and 7934 in the choc/cream livery. I could not find an open vehicle in that livery but did notice the loose vehicles you mention in plum-and-spilt-milk. I have a well thumbed copy of Gould's first edition (my most worn out book!) but did not use it in this case. The appendix also gives 7934 as being based at Ramsgate to work the 7.20 a.m. to Cannon Street. Best regards, Martin

Do we think that Hornby will produce a version of the Dining First in BR chocolate and cream livery? Martin (7934 carried experimental chocolate and cream in 1953, as did Maunsell 10-set No.237)

Sorry, have been involved in other things today. YES! You are correct. The numbering confused me for a long while! Best regards, Martin

I do not know what Hornby's precise logic was in producing that vehicle but I suspect that they have tooled up for a post-war buffet conversion of the RFK and required a RCO to pair with it. If one models the mid-1930s, there would doubtless have been a mix of stock: new with simplified lining, revarnishes with full lining, repaints with simplified lining Martin

It had been 'simplified' but by no means eliminated by that time. The elimination of lining on olive green was a Bulleid era thing (he became CME in 1937). BCK 6686 and TO 1309 on the Bluebell Railway carry authentic lined livery. http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/1309.html https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/6686.html Martin

Why not? Martin

Here is chapter and verse, as best we know it, on the Bluebell Railway's sole surviving example of these (only) six vehicles: https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/1365b.html Best regards, Martin

What year are you modelling? The National Fire Service was disbanded in 1948 (some Act of 1947) and the responsibility reverted to the councils, who repainted their appliances red. Martin

I assume you mean 1969 for the LMR closure date? Best regards, Martin

Looks very nice. Was there not a door to the interlocking room somewhere? Best regards, Martin

Sorry, but I have read your post several times and still find it somewhat confused. The official photo of van No. 521202 in Essery's 'LMS Wagons Vol. 1' shows it to be in a colour DARKER than pre-1937 LMS grey. The Bachmann model, although very attractive, is therefore incorrect in its light grey livery. I don't believe that there was any shortage of grey paint in particular during WW2. It was 'vanity' colours like blues, yellows and reds that were in short supply. As I stated previously, grey is simply black with some white in it, easily produced and readily (within reason) available. I do not know specifically why these vans were needed. It may have been to increase the size of the RCH van pool or to replace wartime losses. Why did the SR build them? I don't know where you get the impression that the SR had obtained an excess of timber and needed something to do with it! In any case, it would have been the steel supply for the vans that would have been critical and this may well have had to have been specifically authorised by the MoS. The LMS had been building all their own vans in the run-up to WW2 (in 1936 most LMS open wagons were still being built by outside builders like Cravens, Birmingham etc.). The LMS wagon works were still building vans during WW2. Perhaps they did not have the capacity and, as the SR was producing these vans currently, the MoS considered that it was more expedient for Ashford to knock out a few more? However, the SR also built some vans to LMS diagrams circa 1942, but that is a matter for discussion at a later date! Best regards, Martin .

We should not lose sight of the vehicle we are discussing. It was a handbrake-only ventilated van being built for the LMS so that they could fulfil their commitment of similar vehicles to the RCH pool for interchange traffic between the four companies. It was a simple truck built to do a job during wartime. The LNER built handbrake-only versions of their diag? timber-bodied fitted van for the LMS too. During wartime, the colour of the vehicle was not that important as long as the lettering conformed to RCH standards. The LMS changed its wagon colour from a mid-grey to the lighter sea grey in 1934; why I do not know. The change to bauxite and indeed a need for a change, might have been down to the white lettering not showing up so well against the light grey when weathered. Having viewed various photos of the two wagon types, I feel certain that the colour of both types of van was grey, the shade being simply black with some white in it, to give a mid grey. I would say that the Bachmann LMS-liveried model is definitely wrong. Martin

It is a while since you posted this. Did you have any joy getting further info on the 1937 scheme? Cheers, Martin