BritishRail60062

To be fair there. I was covering all angles about the leasing/selling thingy . Although in regards to the third point would be that the Class 60 locomotives would be sold already rebuilt and refurbished all set ready to enter traffic with type training for the drivers. As the Mk2's CIE bought were all refurbished in-house . The bottom line is that whoever gets these Class 60's. I will/should have the chance to photograph/film them. I would even go to Poland to film/photograph them in person. Should they be exported that far? .

I agree with you mate. But although the Class 60's are not a new locomotive any more and I will not pretend otherwise . I was wondering why Brush/Wabtec would buy 20 of them from DBC in the first place if there was no market for them? I think there is a valid reason for Brush/Wabtec to invest in buying those locomotives to make a profit from them. Either as lease to a TOC or to sell onwards as rebuilt/refurbished locomotives which I have a feeling the latter is more appropriate. Meanwhile about the Ireland scenario, if they wanted to explore the heavy haul market in the future. Would the GM 201 and the 071 class locomotives have the hauling capabilities of one of those Class 60's? As far as I am aware, their current fleet doesn't have the low-ratio gearing. Also from a business prospective view, in the recent years. Iarnrod Eireann has ploughed a lot a money into renewing their network and rolling stock over the last decade and is continuing to do so even now. With that taken into account, IE/IR would want to maximise their return on their investment and getting more freight back on the rails is a good way to do that . Not to mention that it will take some more trucks off the tracks in the process which can only be a good thing. Also if longer heavy haul trains ran in Ireland which is a possible avenue in the not too distant future. Surely it would be cheaper to buy a small fleet of pre-loved rebuilt Class 60's to try the heavy haul market rather than pay more for something like a GE Class 70 that could be a higher risk if the market fails and would be a larger lost in investment? On the other hand, if heavy haul freight market took off in Ireland. Then both IE and any other private freight operators could buy either more Class 60's from Brush/Wabtec/DBC on the cheap. Or buy something from GE like the Class 70. I would have suggested the EMD Class 66. But I thought that 66779 for GBRF was the very last one built, so that route is a no go either? Does EMD still make any locomotives for the European market any more since GM has changed hands? As I believe GM is now owned by the Daimler-Chrysler group. I remember the early 1990's (or could have been the late-1980's) when CIE (as it was known then) bought a load of ex-BR Mk2's and refurbished and rebuilt them to use on their railway network. They lasted until around 2007/8 when they were replaced with Korean built ICR railcars that are known as the 22000 class and they look like something that is a blend of a Class 170 and a Class 175 . We will have to wait and see what happens with those 20 Class 60's.

As I understand it, Ireland is heavily investing into its rail network and that includes new lines and will lead to more trains and perhaps freight being taken off the road and moved by rail. Also if a link between Larne and Cork oil refineries is built. The small fleet of Class 60's in Ireland would take care of the oil trains and also they could be deployed on the Tara Mines stone trains as well . ON the UK side of things though. Although the Class 60's are 28 years old just based on the 1989 examples, there is still plenty of life left in them and they are still a pretty young fleet when compared to the Class 37's, Class 47's and even the remaining Class 20's and Class 31's that are over 50 years old that are still in active service. But even with the HS2 project that will provide work for the Class 60's. I think that DBC should flog all the remaining surplus Class 60's to Brush/Wabtec to refurbish and rebuild the healthier ones and perhaps sell them overseas as I think places like Bulgaria, Poland and perhaps Australia that could use some on their bulk coal and stone trains. This is besides those that I recommended for Ireland. However that said, the bad ones like 60081 and 60006 which are badly damaged. Unless there was a big investment pumped into them, they are only really usable for spares. But for 60070, 60064 and 60098 which are more or less bodyshells on wheels. They could end up the same way unless they would be useful as a prototype for the new traction equipment and the power units for testing .

22000 Class DMU Railcar by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Taken in 2011 and to be honest its more or less a Class 175 and a 170 blended together. So I would call it a "stubby" 180 .

Hello all, I think if enough of us request one by contacting Hornby and filling in the form. They will produce one sooner or later if there is enough demand. Personally I am seeking an unnamed one as it will make life easier to knock out a few renumbered models for a project I will be working on. As for using transfer decals. I use the Mr Hobby decal setter and then add a coat of sorter to fix the decal into plate and I import from Japan. The decal softer bonds the decal into the paint to give it a hand painted look. Its a Japanese range and I am curious to know if anyone else uses those decal application fluids? If so, whats your verdict on them?

Here is 60008 that I took last year. Class 60, EWS 60008 "Sir William McAlpine" at Toton by BritishRail60062, on Flickr This is one of the 20 that Brush/Wabtec has bought and to be honest, the locomotive is in pretty good condition since its turbo went kaput in 2007! So this has got me thinking about how Brush/Wabtec could bring these 20 Class 60's up to par. For starters, they should replace the old and perhaps ceased DC traction motors with the ABB AC traction motor package with regenerative brakes and this combined with the Hitachi adjustable wheelsets would be a good start there. Next would be to rebuild the cab interiors with a new control desk with the layout similar to a Class 67 but with the Class 70 style controls all on a desk with touch screen menus like an Ipad interface. This in mind, the cab windows could remain untouched and therefore retain its integrity. As for the power unit and engine room. Basing my estimates on the limit of 116 tons for Ireland. The new traction package and rebuilt cabs as well a brand new CPU that is lighter would/should shed off some weight from the advertised 131 tons to around 126 tons at the very least as new equipment is lighter than the old equipment right? . So I think for Ireland, the Mirrlees Blackstone MB275 that is a whopping 22 tons would have to be replaced with a modern lighter power unit. Something like a MAN/Paxman 12VP185 at 7.7 tons or a 16VP185 at 10.2 tons. However another option would be the MTU 16V4000 43R that is advertised at 8.7 tons which I believe that the HST's (excluding the EMT ones) were retro fitted with in 2006/7 . I think if Brush/Wabtec tried this, then maybe they could develop their own homegrown British built diesel locomotive in the future from the research of using an existing locomotive like the Class 60 . Some food for thought there and if anyone from Brush/Wabtec read this, please pass it on to the development team, thanks .

There is some food for thought there @4630. To be honest, I think there is a bright future for those 20 tugs but I think its safe to say we can rule out GBRF as a potential buyer for those because they are looking for more 66's from what I heard/read on other forums. Freightliner could be a potential customer as although they have about 18 Class 70's kicking about and some surplus ones. At the time I write this, they use their Class 66/6's on the iron ore trains and to be honest. I wouldn't be surprised if they dip their toe into the 60 pool and buy a handful to use on the FLHH iron ore trains and then perhaps sell on some of their 66/6's to GBRF which they could use on the drax trains as their current 66's seem to struggle with as unlike the 66/6's that have low speed gearing. Their in-house 66/7 fleet are not fitted to my knowledge, including the imported ones . Another potential customer could be DRS, although DRS has never seemed interested in doing heavy haul contracts. So I don't think they would be interested in taking any on unless they are planning to use them on new contracts. Although HS2 work could be a potential contract for both DRS and FLHH . Nice photos by the way there mate. When I was last down Barnetby. I did manage to get 60076 on the Preston to Lindsey Bitumen working, although it took three attempts this year as twice it got cancelled but I was determined to get it on camera and I am glad that I did . Talking of 60087, that one seems to be regular on the Rectory Junction to Lindsey working although that one has spent a lot of time at the new sidings in Barnetby as I got it on a "fly-by" photo from the Class 185 that brought me home that evening .

Right then. If that is the case and unless GBRF are intentionally denying their interest publicly (with good reason). I am suspecting that the only other viable buyer unless Colas is expanding their operations. It would be FLHH as they could use them on the iron ore bulk trains and perhaps they could/would sell off their 66/6's to GBRF as they seem to have set their minds to just 66's for the majority of their freight workings which is easier for driver type training. So if that is the case, then at places like Barnetby etc. There could be more 60's to photograph if FLHH gain any from those 20 Class 60's from Brush/Wabtec and displace their 66/6's to GBRF which is my suspicion here .

Yes mate it does. However the only adjustments needed would be to move the wheels out by 3 and 1/2 inches each side and that would be taken care of if the Hitachi adjustable wheelsets could be implemented here as then the Class 60's could be used in Ireland and also if they ever returned to the UK or even moved onto Europe. There would be no need to re-axle the wheels, should Brush/Wabtec team up with Hitachi for the wheelsets .

If GBRF and FLHH are interested in some Class 60's, then surely it would be logical for some drivers to go to DBC for type-training so that they can handle the Class 60's competently when they gain them? I would have assumed this was the case when Colas bought their ten from DBC? Either way, its going to be an interesting situation to see what will become of those 20 Class 60's as I don't think Brush/Wabtec would buy them without a good cause to get a good profit from the resale/lease. If any are destined to Ireland. I think the Irish train drivers would love to drive them considering how quiet they are inside the cab when compared to a 66. I think even the GBRF/FLHH drivers will prefer them once they have had the chance of driving one . I think 2017 has been a great year for trains in my opinion.

I wonder if any could be used in Ireland? Assuming that Wabtec/Brush would modify them to meet the 116t weight limit? As the limit is set to 18.8 tons per axle. I would be curious to see where else these locomotives could go abroad. Unless Poland could use them? That is a good sign as Toton has been a boneyard for most of the class with some being stored for over ten years . If possible, I hope some will pass to Freightliner for the FHH iron ore trains as maybe they could buy some on the sly .

As I cover Irish and Welsh Modern Image model trains. I have registered an interested in both the Arriva 2 and 3 car units. As when I get round to building my layout I will need about 3 of those units. However I had the pleasure of riding a Class 180 last year from Grantham to Doncaster that was a First Hull Trains unit. So I would buy one as I would run it at club layouts and I would buy the Grand Central as I would have that one resprayed into the Irish Rail ICR colours to represent a Class 22000 as they look very similar to a Class 180.

That sure does look like a great model in the works going by the CAD image. However I don't know if I would use the DCC pantograph as my layout will have no OHLE installed at first. However I shall be getting the Freightliner one at first and hopefully perhaps a DB red one will ensue in a couple of years after (please as I have two DJM 92's to buy!). Also I may get a DB one with sound if they don't pile them all out in a mad rush as funds can only go so far when there is living costs to take into account too .

I totally second that Ian. As being a GWR fan myself. I too would love to own a decent GWR Autocoach to compliment my Bachmann GWR Pannier 0-6-0 as the Airfix one I had looked like a toy train when it last ran along with my Pannier .

Hi Ben, No problem and thanks for letting me know .

I too would love to see a Hornby Class 60 in the standard DB Schenker red livery in something like this: Class 60, DB Schenker 60063 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr The best thing we can do people is fill out that form on the Hornby website and coax them into producing one . Oh and the return of the painted footsteps would be most welcome on the Hornby Class 60 as since 2015, it seems to have gone "walkies" for some reason. I think the DB Schenker variant would be best for Hornby as the only one with just DB logos is 60100 that would limit those amateur modellers like me with banana fingers to just one variant without messing up on the larger transfers. However there is good old "T-cut" for those that wish to the remove the "Schenker" bit from the model if they want to make 60100 in its post May 2017 guise .

I apologise for asking this too soon. But are there any new images of one of those wagons that could be shown in its packaging? As I would love to see what one would look like if its reached that stage yet .

Here is some beauties from my trips over the last two months . June: Newark Castle Class 60, DB Schenker 60063 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Nottingham Class 60, DB Schenker 60054 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Barnetby Class 60, DB Schenker 60063 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Class 60, DB Schenker 60063 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Class 60, DB Schenker 60054 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Doncaster Class 60, Colas Rail 60056 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr July: Barnetby Class 60, DB Schenker 60091 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Class 60 Colas Rail 60076 "Dunbar"; by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Class 60, DB Schenker 60039 "Dave Holes"; by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Class 60, Colas Rail 60087 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Kind Regards Ash.

I think I am going to HAVE to buy this one .

Yep I would suggest to stock up on the Mk3's if you want prototypical rakes as I am going to need 18 of them for the two VTEC HST's that I am having as I am getting the TTS sound one once its released. I have recently took delivery of my NRM40 HST pack and it is a lovely model. I will be adding a driver into the cab of mine as I like realism . Well done Locomotion! I have filled in your questionnaire and with a suggestion to boot as well. So you can expect more custom from me in the future.

Hi Jim. In terms of the CRT filter proposal. It is not as expensive as you might think and I am saying this because many companies like MAN, ZF and Voith etc make CRT (including those with the Ad-blue formula) filters that can and have been retrofitted into many older buses and trucks in the UK and Europe to bring them in line with the new emission requirements such as Euro 3/4/5. I am certain that if the research and technology used for road vehicles could be a solution to upgrade older locomotives like the Class 60 and perhaps even the Euro 1 Class 66's. As for the regenerative braking and the CPU upgrades. The Class 60 is pretty much a heavily computerised locomotive from the start and its a locomotive that still has a foreseeable future in service with FTOC's. To cut to the chase and if its necessary. The old CPU could be replaced with a new CPU that would allow compatibility with the new functions such as the three-phase AC traction motors with the regenerative braking system as the energy could be stored in high powered capacitors with a servo switch to give the traction motors some boost on hill starts without drawing too much from the power unit and that would save fuel comsuption. Or the energy could be used to recharge the batteries on the locomotive as well as power the other equipment where necessary. In theory the upgrades for the Class 60 would still be considerably cheaper than buying a new locomotive because we already have the locomotive and the legacy Mirrlees power unit. Its a bit like when I build my PC. I already have the PSU and the PC tower case. But in order to use the new hardware like the newest graphics card, processor and the other newer components. I replaced the old obsolete motherboard with the newest one out and I have a new computer for about half the price of a brand new one. Also the cabs could also be refurbished and upgraded to have the newer control system such the new generation AWS/ATP display with perhaps an LCD monitor with live information to the driver and all controls would be located to a desktop a bit like the Class 67/68 and 70. HEP wouldn't be an issue though as Class 60's are only used on freight unless its Railtours or emergencies from what I have learned as the Class 60 has no HEP output. The max speed could be upped to about 80mph peak with some tuning to the gears and perhaps add six more gears and up shift the final drive gear from the traction motors so that the traction motors would not overheat and would less power at top speeds for heavy haul freight. Although it sounds like a lot of work would be involved with upgrading the Class 60 to Euro 4/5 standards. It would be easier to do in practice than it looks to write on here as its not as expensive as it might appear .

Hi Mick, Thanks for the clarification on the Mirrlees units. I thought the problem was due to the MB units were going the same way as the Valentas on the HST in their later days. As for emissions though, surely a CRT (Continuous Regeneration Trap) filter could be added into the exhaust pod to make them Euro 4 compliant? If its a computer issue on the locomotives. Surely a firmware update or new software could be a solution there? If its the traction motors throwing a wobbly. Maybe using the new generation three-phase AC traction motors with regenerative braking to reuse power would be a solution?

The Class 60's are still around for the time being anyway. I got 3 last in action. Two at Barnetby (DB Schenker) and one at Leicester (Colas). I still think the Class 60's have a future on the mainline if they replace the power units with something more modern. Maybe a Caterpillar V12 would be a better choice. Anyway here is my photos. 60100 at Barnetby Class 60, DB Schenker 60100 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr 60020 at Barnetby Class 60, DB Schenker 60020 "The Willows" by BritishRail60062, on Flickr 60096 at Leicester Class 60, Colas Rail 60096 by BritishRail60062, on Flickr Got those three beasts in action last week and I was well pleased to get them. But sadly nothing will last forever. So we will have to enjoy it whilst we still can. Where I live, its very much Class 66 dominated as you don't get any Class 60's through Oakham anymore. So if I want to even get a chance of getting a Class 60 of any kind. Its Leicester in the evening or its a trek to Barnetby. Even then you won't be guaranteed a 60 as although I got 60100 on the 1808 passing through Barnetby on the Monday (8th of August 2016). 66162 was hauling the same train on the 10th at that time through there. Having said that, the Class 66 was struggling to pull it though. Poor thing.

I like the work of those repaints .

Another person that has FAILED to read my original post properly. I've already given Dave my input for consideration and I thought that would be the end of the matter. I fail to grasp why some people are making a big deal out of something that is push in a positive direction for a brand new product and I WANT this new model locomotive to be a SUCCESS. I only asked for metal pantographs, handrails and horns to make the model better which is a reasonable request and its like World War 3 on here. Seriously what is the deal here? I thought this was supposed to be a friendly and a civilised place to talk about model trains and learn from other members of the community? I didn't sign up here to be ripped apart over a harmless request to MAKE a product better by giving positive suggestions to the developer that is Dave. No worries though. I will talk directly with manufactures with my suggestions in the future as then there will be no more mud-slinging matches over reasonable suggestions and I will keep my mouth shut as to avoid any friction. I wish Dave the very best of luck with this new Class 92 model which I will look forward to buying in due course. There will be no more replies here from me. Bye bye.