Widnes Model Centre

We are reliably informed this modeller has solved the problems with Black Five. Credit to Ashton Model Centre who put me onto this.

This topic was about shops who offer payments in instalments. It’s actually thrown up a very interesting view on what protection they afford? We have only been in this business for 13 years but l personally can only recall one shop going bust and owing massive, in my opinion, amounts of money. Money was owed to suppliers. l know of many suppliers, manufacturers in this industry who have gone bust and left retailers in the lurch. When we first started everything had to be paid up front or to use the correct term, pro-forma. Even after thirteen years, some of the suppliers still insist on payment before goods are despatched. Companies that once sent goods to retailers on credit terms have reverted back to pro-forma. Must add that’s not our shops fault, it’s suppliers who have changed to this method of payment. This occurred during 2020, suppliers got twitchy over credit terms. The date was very significant. From personal experience, when a supplier is, in some cases on a slippery slope they turn to retailers to support them. We have lost significant amounts of money with suppliers going bust. On two separate occasions we have had suppliers demanding payments for items we were never sent. The first one was easily dealt with. They copied me into an email which should have been internal only. To paraphrase ‘ best drop this account pursuit, he can see we are trying to pull the wool over his eyes’. Phone call to that company was amusing to say the least. Small supplier, no, massive one. The second company tried to get payment from us for goods supplied after a certain date. When everything had to be paid upfront. Huge company. No apology received. With that company, warranty reverted to ourselves. In recent years we have had invoices with second request for payment. Already paid. Sorry, it’s our computer issue. Your local or otherwise model shop is only trying to help in what are particularly difficult times. Sure banks are pretty secure, only if you have less than £85,000 in them. Pension pot, stocks and shares ISA anyone? Have a great day. It’s been an eye opener. Please don’t have a go at shops who are trying to help and keep on trading.

@woodenhead. I can see where you are coming from. You say you worked in a bank. It’s around 16 years now since the five Banks went bust owing customers around £20 billion. I doubt Great Eastern Models have anything like that amount in their savings plan. If they have I’m sure it’s in a locked cupboard, l just need to find out which cupboard. Train goes direct from Widnes to Norwich. Hope l don’t get stuck in the roadworks. Just been reliably informed the roadworks are completed. Money safe in a bank, but only up to £85,000? I’ll take my chances with any model shop. You know it makes sense.

Placing the money into an interest bearing account might seem sensible but who gets the interest, as it remains in our case the customers money? We only use our savings plan for ‘in stock items’. Customer brings an item to us and asked if they can pay for it on our savings plan. I.e instalments. When they have paid in full they take the item as normal. It doesn’t really help the shop as it’s taken off sale and you are putting your trust in the customer. We won’t take an instalment plan for items not yet released, we all know that item may never get into production. We won’t take any money for something that’s not in stock from any of our suppliers as we may not know when it will come back in stock, if ever. I suggest that the risk is more with the shop, not the customer. Customers will sometimes ask can they have the money paid to us back for any number of reasons. We don’t say ‘No’. I can tell you that at this exact moment in time we have £6.87p held in savings. Just checked. This will increase in the run up to Christmas normally from around the end of August. But as l say that item is then taken off sale. Does this help our cash flow? Absolutely not, but it helps our customers and we know they appreciate it. The last time we sold a Gift Voucher and were asked how did they know that we wouldn’t run off with their £30? I looked around the shop and said ‘and leave all this behind?’ They laughed and apologised for not thinking that through.

Interesting question. @Great Eastern Models appear to be an extremely well run family business. Just like us they run a payment plan. I suspect just like us they have a separate system for savings. Now you could pose the same question to a ‘bigger model railway shop’ who take deposits for items not yet released. Or you could draw on millions who have paid £millions for Gift Cards from massive companies who then closed and didn’t honour deposits or Gift Cards. Comparing a model shop who are trying to help customers and they are, with your bank seems somewhat skewed.

@Gallows-Bait What is not obvious is that when we settle our invoices, the money is paid direct to Secure Trust Bank, not Hornby.

We are regaining confidence. It grows every week. An unscheduled visit from the Sales Director who spent a considerable amount of time listening to the difficulties we had to try and deal with. Straight talking as opposed to the masquerade we had been subjected to. The abolition of the Tier System, how ridiculous was that? We wanted to spend and weren’t allowed to. Sadly this came too late for one particular retailer. Hornby had rebuilt bridges and had made a confidence building approach. This is very much appreciated and hopefully will continue. TT120 rolled out to any retailers who wanted to stock the product. Our Airfix orders and preorders are the highest they have been for many, many years. On a personal note, the Sales Staff, Accounts, etc, all seem happier, that’s got to be good. One thing hasn’t changed, their After Sales Service. It’s way, way above any other suppliers. Problem? Resolved with the minimum of contact. As a small retailer that’s always a big confidence booster.

Hornby announced to the trade on the 23rd December 2023, that the Tier System was to end. The information was that it would be phased out and ended during January 2024.

Preorders seem to becoming a ‘let’s wait and see’. To the point of ordering, providing…..delivery time, price, reviews etc. The Customer really is King. Hornby announcing the end of the Tier System is working well and customers have more confidence in their products arriving at the likes of our shop. What no one can guarantee is price or delivery time, hence the wait and see. There really is no fortune to be made in model railways and retailers have had to tread carefully with the price increases. Customers had taken up in the recent past, ordering from several retailers . Then buying from the retailer who received the stock first. Retailers were turning away customers as they had sold out on preorder, only to be then left with stock cancelled at the point of arrival. It’s difficult times, as more than proven with Hattons closing. Believe me, they had no choice. Any retailers who rubbed their hands at their closing could be the next to go. We are struggling to convince customers that we are not closing down. Local media headlines of “Widnes Model shop closes” a few months back. A lot of people didn’t realise that Hattons was based in Widnes and presumed it was us.

If we order on the day of announcement with any main supplier / manufacturer, we don’t get the item at the price. We pay the price of the item at time of delivery. None of the main manufacturers lock us in at the preorder price. There’s absolutely no incentive for retailers to preorder. As we have found out to our cost, preorders don’t even guarantee us receiving the product. l have never been advised of any ‘advanced warning of price change deadlines and associated options’. Not that long ago an item was invoiced, l had ordered it in 2014. Price was double what we preordered at. l would add that in the case of many manufacturers,even if we could afford to even do so. Selling at more than the x% below RRP for a stated time period is not looked on favourably.

A few misquotes. Notably when the journalist asked if l owned the miniature railway shop? I said it was quite large! Model shops hitting the media has got to be good. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/couple-took-chance-after-coming-28648213?utm_source=app

From todays BBC North West News. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68317449

This an extract from our shop Facebook, Friday update, as ever written by my wife, Gill. As usual she reads it out to me prior to posting. In between sobs she eventually managed to read the post to me. This hopefully answers the question that we must be pleased to see the back of Hattons. Most definitely not. Friends and dear Neighbours. Last update Gill and Barry went and had a brew with Richard Davis Managing Director of Hatton's last Monday. It was a strange situation as we sat in an office alongside the warehouse that was now quiet still and empty of people and stock. This was once not too long ago a hub of frenetic activity but no more. I think we can say that we can only give credit to Richard for the years of hard work that he committed to Hatton's but also now what a brave man to recognise how times have changed mainly financially and he alone was able to hold his hands up and take the giant step away from it all. We understand despite this evenings television scheduled slot on the BBC Local news about the Hatton's closure this will possibly take place at a future date.

If the Bachmann spend was redirected to other big box retailers, how much did all retailers take up is the real question? The difference now is that the really big buyer has left the market. If Hattons purchases were steadily in the region of £8/9 million annually is the whole of the trade, never mind the big guys going to take up that that sort of financial risk? Ever increasing costs would make any retailers think more than twice in hugely increasing their annual spend. Not forgetting we are in a time of massive financial crisis. Hattons made their reasons for closing abundantly clear. Any retailer deciding to take over would potentially find themselves in the same situation. The real losers, in trade terms could well be all the suppliers. Don’t think of these posts as a negative outlook for the model railway industry. We firmly believe that the light is still on at the end of the tunnel.

Interesting point of view. Retailers doing deals for overstocks or suppliers clearing their warehouses of slow moving inventory? Most people are of the view that Bachmann won’t be affected. When Hattons stopped being able to supply Bachmann, you would be forgiven for thinking that our Bachmann sales would have increased. They didn’t. Bachmann appeared to reduce the quantity of items that were manufactured. Sold out became the order of the day. Hypothetically, with the main retailer leaving the market, does that leave the likes of our shop with an increase in say PECO, Dapol, Gaugemaster demand? Money is finite so do l have to spend even less with Bachmann in order to finance the purchases from other suppliers. As Osborne Models state, ‘interesting time’s ahead’.

Without going through 43 pages. Has it been highlighted about the knock on effect from the disappearance of Hattons purchasing power? Who is going to buy from UK suppliers in the way they did? We all know stocks of Hornby were lower than they used to be, that bridge seems to have been mended, albeit possibly too late. PECO, Gaugemaster and many other suppliers had huge amounts of stock listed on Hattons website. Who will take up the mantle with those companies? As for ourselves? We are in a bit of an argument with some sections of the local media who announced that Widnes was losing its local model shop. To some customers, that was our shop. Security at the local shopping centre advised one customer asking for directions that the model shop had closed. Thankfully she decided to telephone us to find out that we were still open for business. In relation to EU purchasing. Our only supplier was based in Scandinavia. Paperwork from the government arrived in piles. EORI’s. Customs declarations, appointment of shipping and handling agents, VAT etc. We were quoted £93 per consignment to administer our paperwork. On a low profit margin it wasn’t worth it. We haven’t brought anything in from the EU since.

Sorry, it’s not Jason.

They came after we had closed but we were expecting a delivery. Didn't want the courier complaining about why he was late. They had hoped to be there earlier and speak to customers, especially young customers. No customers were hurt during filming.

Not sure if this is in the right place. Yesterday, Friday 26th January 2024, a BBC tv crew visited Hattons and ourselves re the condition of the model railway industry. This will be available to viewers in the north west and surrounding area. Will be advised of the date it is being aired. We were usurped by a certain Liverpool FC manager announcing his retirement……. Don’t ask me what was said as l had to stand outside to prevent anyone coming in! Just hope my wife, Gill and son Tom did okay.

Just received this from Hornby. Class 67, TFW is on its way.

I was over at Hattons late this afternoon to say goodbye to some of the staff l have had the pleasure of knowing. Also to wish them well and offer our thanks for their help throughout the years. No banter today just an incredibly sad occasion. Warehouse was very busy, seemingly lots of Lockers and Trunks being packed. I’m sure l will be back for one last visit.

Buckingham House 1965-1979. You must have lived in Buckingham Avenue when the group, Real Thing lived in the upstairs of number 15. They lived in a friend’s house and my girlfriend at the time lived opposite. Hattons have brought us all together after all these years!

I didn’t realise how many railway modellers lived so close to me when l lived on Ullet Road near to Hattons. One poster was even the paper boy in the newsagents opposite, just like me. Great memories There is an interview with Richard Davies currently available on BBC Sounds, Radio Merseyside. l can’t see how to share it, so Google might be your friend. Attached the image so you know what to look for.

We would like to put on record our deepest sadness at this announcement. Only found out a few hours ago. Echoing Andy Y’s comment, we are in total shock. My first model railway item was bought from there in 1966. The help we received from Hattons during the pandemic was the only thing that kept us going. They have been great friends and neighbour’s since we first opened. That will never be forgotten. We wish Richard and Christine and all their local staff the very, very best for the future whatever they decide.

Hi Fran, Not sure why you think l was referring to yourselves? I didn’t mention Accurascale but referred to manufacturers in general when dealing with this type of issue.