Richie Kynaston

I have found the chap on eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASS-87-CUSTOM-DCC-DIGITAL-LIGHT-SET-FOR-Hornby-LIMA-MODELS/382636876499 That is obviously the link to lights for a Class 87 - he doesn't have the 56 shown online at the moment, but does do them so if you drop him a message, I am sure he'll help and advise. Rich

Guys, Thanks for all the input, certainly stimulating the conversation, that is not only useful but interesting!! Im thinking warm white LEDs may be the way forward thinking of the old colour of the bulbs, rather than pure white. Thanks Suzie, the problem with 7mm displays is the limitation of characters, plus the appearance is not like the old bulb theatre indicators. Its probably just me being too pedantic tho! But your idea of a mask with holes in, is an option. I'll see how this development comes out and take it from there. Richie

Somebody may well prove me wrong, but I have not seen a 'Z' used, either in real life or in photos, so I have to admit I left it out, but adding it in is simple enough as its A1-G1 and A7-G7 plus half of the X! Yes, the 5 I miscoloured 2 bulbs.

Yes, agree totally, that's why I went for a 7x7 grid that (hopefully!) can display A-Z and 0-9. Yes I bet! My method was to print out a 7x7 grid the, colour in all the bulb positions for each letter, based on A-G columns and 1-7 rows: That then allowed me to work out the LED sequence for each letter - can anyone see anything I have missed? Edit - I mis-coloured two bulbs on 5. I think F2 should NOT be coloured, but F4 should be!

Agreed, I sat downlown last night and put a matrix together. If you avoid M, N, W, X and Z then you can fit in a 5x7 grid which brings you down to 35 LEDs. I have a cunning plan, but we'll wait and see what happens, it will either be a gallant failure or a total c**k up Richie

Thanks Jim, We’ve both had the same thoughts! That was my line of thinking run fibre optic cables from the theatre head to LEDs beneath the baseboard. Trying to work on a system that would allow them to produce all 26 characters and 0-9 ... actually 24 characters, as 0 and O obviously look the same and I don’t think Q is used on theatre indicators. Richie

Thanks. Yes i’ve looked at the Absolute Aspects work and love what they do, but those theatre indicators are just way over scale and, in my opinion, knock off the superb effect of the rest of the signal. So I ruled those out early on! But thanks for flagging them up!

Just to say thanks to everyone. I have a CAD design for a 4mm theater indicator as a result ... once the printed parts arrive, I just need to see how viable it is to get it working! Richie

Martin, Many thanks, that should give me what I need. I'll report back on the outcome! Clive, Very helpful yes - thank you ever so much! Richie

Well done Graham, nice bit of investigative work and very productive Richie

Hello Fran, Apologies if this question has already been asked .. but for the non-sound versions, are you still including the speakers to make sound fitment easy in the future for people, or are they being removed (ie not installed to start with)? I ask, as I would go down the sound route, but for a variety of reasons, I am not a fan of the ESU chips, preferring Zimo - given the 21-pin interface, it would make an easy upgrade at anytime if the speakers are in and wired as part of the pin connections.... EDIT: Oh I said I'd ask for a mate who isn't on rmWeb - any news on whether P4 wheel sets will be included/paid extra like the SLW 24s? I think you've said that the ability for owners to gauge change is already a given? Richie

Thanks for that. That sounds totally logical, I always thought they were taller than wide, but an optical illusion with the darkness inside the hood made them look square. Being 7x7 sounds a far better bet! Especially thinking of the one on the north end of Platform 4 at Doncaster! I have had a quick look on the web and while it produced some drawings, looking for 'Multi-Lamp Route Indicators' it did not give any measurements unfortunately. But thanks for the thought. Grovenor, thanks for that - anything you can find, either drawings or measurements would be most welcome.

Afternoon all, Does anyone know the size (ie actual real-life size) of the single character theatre indicators - the entire unit I mean? Also the depth of the hood if anyone knows? I am not talking about the modern LED ones that are now in use, but the traditional ones with bulbs in that were around from the late 1970s-early/mid-1990s (probably later). I think it was a 5x7 grid of bulbs if I remember rightly to allow all characters/letters/numbers to be displayed. I have searched round and can find the dimensions from Unipart for the modern LED ones, but I don't know if they are the same size - I presume that bulbs and the associated wiring would have taken up more space than modern day electronics. Any help would be appreciated. I have a few photos of them, but again, if anyone has a side or rear view that would be appreciated too! Richie

Swings and roundabouts I guess. I prefer the Zimo decoders, and like it better that there are no speakers included as you can get acquire whatever you want from whomever, without buying a part you don't need!

I believe from a friend, that Paul Chetter no longer supplies his projects direct (ie from himself) but has handed over/sold/done a deal with Digitrains for them to be the sole distributor. Thats what I am told, but I'll stand corrected!! The £15 projects are Paul's, where as the standard ones are produced by somebody else.

If it helps there is a chap in North Wales that does a pre-made kit for the Dapol/Mainline Class 56, he sells on eBay and is very good. I bought one which a friend now has and is fitting.

Many thanks, much appreciated.

Hi Eric, Sorry to hijack somebody else’s thread, but you don’t happen to have the next sheet to the left of this plan do you, showing the other end of the station? Richie

Or perhaps do the old fashioned thing, and before criticising an individual/company in public, try picking up the phone to them - its either on the wall linked by a cord, or in your pocket. The digital world is great, but it can (and frequently) does go wrong. We seem to be in a world that if people do not reply to an email or are not on Facebook, people are quick to shout everyone down. I have been in a position at my work where a customer has rung up and been swearing at me because we did not reply to an email sent just 5 minutes before he rang!! Trust me, there are a lot of people who use software like Mac Mail, Outlook and Windows Live Mail who do not realise that a) all email provides have a spam trap that can take things out and delete the email without it hitting your inbox, and b) that the online Spam/Junk Mail folder in many cases does not get downloaded to your computer. That Junk Mail box on the software is totally different. The number of people I have told to log on line and check the online spam box and then come back and say oh I found it, I didn't know that. One man bands/small businesses cannot be everything and a lot of people use computers who are not IT savvy (no disrespect to anyone), so cannot know everything. Also how have you been spammed if you haven't had a response?? There's an old thing called patience and respect, I really wish people would make more use of both in the 21st century. Finally, I would back up people's comments that I have seen Tim's work and had conversations with him in the past and found him very helpful and responsive. No connection other than as a potential customer.

Am I correct in thinking these Class 68 diagrams finish this year?

Superb Duncan, Love that last photo!

Hi Jon, Many thanks - an other good friend said that you were a very social and knowledgeable chap where signalling was concerned!! Many thanks for the help. Lol! I know, as a nominal N gauge modeller (all work on hold until I am in the new house!) 16mm seems bl**dy big!! Im quite good at CAD drawing, but we'll see how the brass and 3D prints come out! I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of Mick Nicholson's book - Mick has been very very kind too in assisting with drawings and photos of the various point rodding parts along with a number of S&T items for working the signals, but I didn't know he'd done a book! You don't happen to have the title or ISBN do you, and I'll have a see if a certain rainforest stocks it! So I think from that, that we are looking at probably upper quadrant signals with LNER style ground signals. Were there many differences between LMS and LNER UQ signals for this area do you know? Any drawings, either posted on here or if you want to PM me I can give you an email address if that's easier would be gratefully appreciated. Id like to think I can repay the support sometime, but likely hood is you know far more than I ever will about this stuff!! If I can ever help out with any CAD drawings for you in return, do feel free to shout! Ooh will do, that would save me designing and printing them. There's a company at Cardiff I think that do etched brass, who I was going to use for those type of parts and probably Shapeways for any 3D bits and pieces. I think I need to find someone who can create white metal items from a 3D mould, or failing that maybe learn how to do it myself! Looking at some YouTube videos it doesn't look that difficult. I've been studying your thread for how to position things like the LEDs for the gas lamps and then how to thread the various wires, hope you don't mind! Thanks again Jon, really is appreciated. Richie

It looks huge! Shame the super laser cut steel is all hidden really!! Enjoying your progress - I assume as its for your layout, that despite not completing by the competition deadline, that your going to continue and finish it! Richie

Wow, wow, wow, wow ... erm .. did I mention wow! I have been following your progress with this in the background since you started. For something that, I think is a fictional location, it really is a wonderful model. One can just imagine that off-scene to the left is one of the Onedin Line ships!! I really hope you are able to get this out on the exhibition circuit, either as a diorama or a working model, (or in BRM/MRJ) as it really should be shared and enjoyed. Just lately, the standard of work on several threads really does seem to have raised the bar on rmWeb, although I can decide if it has the effect of pushing other people (like me) to do better or making us think we should just pack up now! I jest, it should encourage and inspire, especially a step-by-step thread like this, to show people what can be done when you set your mind to it. Really well done Tricky, I hope you are immensely proud of this.

If nothing else, this competition has really opened up my eyes into the LNWR and its fascinating history of loco types - an area that previously I knew very little of, but am perhaps a little more informed now. Some superb modelling has been seen and to scratch build locos and signal boxes in the various gauges is just awe-inspiring. Well done to all, regardless of who wins I wouldn't know where to start with something like the 3.5" gauge locomotive, but what a beauty! Richie