C126

And a day-trip to Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991; hope the roof detail might be of use. 33 029, Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991. 33 029, Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991. 33 029, Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991. 33 110, Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991. 33 110, Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991. 33 110, Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991. 33 110, Tonbridge West Yard, 12th October, 1991.

Also some at Brighton: 33 204, 18th December, 1990. 33 116, May, 1992. 33 050+33 051, 22d September, 1991. 33 050, 22d September, 1991. 33 051, 22d September, 1991. 33 051, 22d September, 1991.

I came across the following when finishing labelling my latest batch of scans. Hope they are of interest. 33 023 +12xPHA, Lewes, 13.15 30th August, 1990. Again, 33 023 +12xPHA, Lewes, 13.15 30th August, 1990. 33 012, Sevenoaks, 12th October, 1991. 33 012, with an unidentified 33/1 behind, Sevenoaks, 12th October, 1991.

Just found a few more detailed shots of the 'tramway', among the latest batch of scans completed. Hope they are of interest. All taken 13th December, 1990. I remember seeing where the track reached the black tarmac boundary of the works themselves (now the industrial estate), they were sawn through, not simply covered in tarmac.

Perhaps of vague interest, I found the following at Lewes in my latest batch of scans 'dumped' in my 'Personal Galleries'. Sorry there is not a specific date (September 1991).

Dear Oldddudders, Many thanks for these reminiscences. It is detail such as this I think so valuable to record, so we may understand how the railways worked, within my life-time, let alone for 'youngsters' for whom rail-blue is just a set of photographs. I always wondered who/what/where "Control" was. My late train driver chum mentioned it in passing, but it was yet another thing I never got chance to interrogate my older friends and acquiantances about before they 'went to that great railway in the sky'. Thanks again and all good wishes in La Belle France. I raise a glass of diabolamenthe (?sp) to you.

Thank you all for your kind words. I am glad it is of interest. My curiosity was roused to having an illustration of just what the wagon-load network was along the coastway lines, and how these connected further 'inland'. Then I became interested in 'perishables' so had to include the Chichester 'market gardens' van train, and newspaper trains (as an ex-paperboy), and the whole thing cascaded from there. Were I to do it again, I would start by making a list of the trains, which could then be used to cross-reference the 4-digit reporting no. I should stress that most of the 'block trains' (not that there were many) were omitted, as are the Reading-Redhill-Tonbridge lines and many inter-regionals, simply because of space. I did want to include all the latter for Norwood Yards though, as 'the' Central Division Marshalling Yard, but fear I have missed a few. If anyone knows of a computer programme that can plot such things in smaller but still legible writing, do tell, please! Some of the arrival and departure times had to be squeezed into gaps very small. Olddudders: if you have the time, I hope I am not alone in desiring to hear how you and your colleagues referred to trains in these times - I thought the 4-digit code was universal - and how you tracked them (wall chart? pieces of paper?). Was it as "the 03.27 News to Bexhill", for example? If I can regain the enthusiasm and locate some decent A1 paper upon return to normality, I will try and re-draw it with fewer omissions. I just wish I had known how much there was then to photograph and had pestered my father to take me out there. Thanks again to you all; all suggestions gratefully received.

Dear @Ben04uk : the least I can do, as your questions inspired the exercise. I have done the 'bottom right A3' as well, to put it all in context. Hope these help. Do say if any more details would be appreciated. All best wishes.

Prompted by many posts here, and a few questions over the last two years, my three weeks' furlough has enabled the completion of the following diagram of Freight and N.P.C.C.S. trains on the B.R. (S.R.) Central Division during the early 1970's. Unfortunately, I did not have two W.T.T.s that matched dates, but I hope it indicates what services were running (and what has been lost over the last forty-five years!). I hope it is of both interest and use. Apologies for the errors and omissions. When the curfew is lifted, I will get it scanned professionally, and take four A3 scans at work on a high-definition scanner as P.D.F.s. Please feel free to use, up-date, amend, and draw your own, for your personal, non-profit, use.

This was in 1985, when it was announced the site was to be sold by Rugby Portland Cement Co. for an industrial estate. I mentioned my intention to photograph it all before demolition to a school chum, and he replied there was a little shunter there, about which I knew nothing. I believe the loco went to the Spa Valley Line (Tunbridge Wells West-Eridge), and it still appears on their fleet list: https://www.spavalleyrailway.co.uk/article.php/18/stock-list Thanks for the coal-filled mineral wagons shot. I remember only the Presflos in the sidings, with orange "Rugby Cement" signs on the sides, when we travelled past on numerous trips to Newhaven beach. Had to get a few when Bachmann brought them out, even if I have nothing to run them on. I went down to Lewes station to photograph the engineers train that removed the final simplified loop and single-slip crossing at about 02.00 one morning, staying up by watching a couple of Bollywood films back-to-back to stay awake. Of course, I can not find my notes or 'wobbly' photo from the time now, to my fury. I remember the last layout was a facing 'loop' off a single slip from the down line, with the slip allowing crossing to the Up Line from the sidings. The 'Up side' engineers siding was removed at the same time. Many thanks for all your contributions.

Much to my surprise, I have been able to locate easily my photographs of the dear little engine... Hope they are of interest.

Thanks to you all for your replies, and sorry for the ambiguity. Definitely Southerham on the S.R. Central Div. I assume the 'empties' were brought down on the 01.50 from Norwood, left at Newhaven Town Yard, and then taken back on the run to Brighton, where they were shunted for the 'fulls' to take away northwards. This saves the cost of running a train specific for that flow, of course. If there is anyone out there who would share memories of working this service, I hope I am not alone in being eager to hear them. Thanks again.

I am working on a project plotting non-passenger trains on the Southern Region in the early 1970's, and can not see, in the few 'Mandatory' and 'Conditional' time tables I have from 1972/1974, when the Pressflo 'empties' were dropped off at Southerham (returning from Norwood Yards, I believe). The train of loaded hoppers departed at 10.15 from Newhaven Town Yard, 10.54 from Southerham Sidings (EDL, 7C52), arriving at Brighton Top Yard at 11.20. However, the only Down train I can see is the 7G55 01.50 departure from Norwood, arriving at Newhaven Town Yard 03.24. I can see nothing in any 'notes' column to say the train shunted Southerham Sidings on the way down. Does anyone know if it did, and dropped off the empty Pressflos? I would be most grateful to read of any memories or documentation that confirms this. My understanding of the various time table types is rather inadequate, so perhaps I have just mis-read something. Thanks as ever for giving this your consideration, and please accept my best wishes to you all in these times.

Pondering this over luncheon, and waiting for the accursed computer 'updates' to finish, I wonder, if this is the basis of a model, you could be persuaded to 'move' west of Eastbourne. There were seven other van trains each 24 hours that terminated at Eastbourne, which would give greater interest. There was also a goods train that ran to Brighton Top Yard, (pl. 70, dated 1st June, 1978, in 'The power of the electro-diesels', C. J. Marsden, 1980), and the goods trains to Newhaven and Beddingham on the Seaford branch. If you were just curious, please accept my apologies for the unwanted suggestion.

Working backwards through a few W.T.T.s I have, in the 16th May 1988-14th May 1989 (s. WE), there was only the newspaper train east of Eastbourne (which by then did not have the passenger coach (BSK?) from London to Eastbourne): 1F51, D210, 03.33 London Bridge to Bexhill (head-code '61', changed to '75' from Eastbourne). Eastbourne arr. 05.20. Eastbourne dep. 05.30. Bexhill arr. 05.48. This returned in two portions to Brighton (details available if you wish). The last one of these, Saturday, 9th July, 1988, was formed passing through Lewes of: 33 015 (old b/y livery, 'over-head live wire' cantrail stripe, no. 2 end leading). E93446 NXV rail blue. S93726 NJV (EW) rail blue. Old 'oil' tail-lamp on the end. I remember photographing a MLV a few times that buzzed around, but either I am missing it in the cursory look through the time tables, or it appeared only in those later ones (1980's) I threw out recently. How newspapers reached Seaford I always wondered. In the 1970's, 'vans' between Eastbourne and Bexhill/Hastings appear no more numerous. In my copy of 6th May, 1974-4th May, 1975, 'Mandatory', (s. F), there is a "Mails" train from Seaford to Brighton: 1K04, [EMU?], 20.35 Seaford-Brighton (head-code '28'). Seaford dep. 20.35. Lewes 20C50 ["train crew"]. Brighton arr. 21.06. I regret I can not see a 'balancing' Down service, if only E.C.S. Hope this helps a little.

Many thanks for taking the time to reply and your very useful comments, 18B, and stopping me from buying it 'blind'. I will order it from the public library, and save the space on my bursting bookshelves, unless I see it at an exhibition to flick through to check. Apologies for not replying sooner, and thanks again.

Please can anyone vouch for the degree of repetition of photographs in this volume, compared to Dr Shannon's previous works? I appreciate he needs to keep costs down, and there are only a finite number of relevant pictures taken forty years ago, but I am hoping for many new photographs of goods facilities. There was some duplication between his 'Freight Only' and 'Rail freight since 1968' series, and 'Speedlink', and I do not want to buy it 'unseen' with this risk. Many thanks for any opinions.

Please forgive my 'late arrival at the Wake', but thanks to you all for the information posted here. I was especially interested in why the ferry route seems not to be financially viable; I did not know it was Newhaven port's lack of capacity, if I understand correctly. I was dragged to France on holiday many times by this route, which if giving me a dislike of holidays abroad did instill a love of S.N.C.F., boat trains and the 'discovery' of the Night Ferry, etc. It was good to see a picture with the London & Paris Hotel still standing in it. I caught the last Manchester-Newhaven Marine train, and when returning from trips north, would ride through to 'Marine', instead of alighting at my station. I will spare you the rest of my reminscences. Many thanks for the contributions, and the pictures of the place now.

May I just second this, and thank you all for your contributions. I, too, am finding it very useful. Any memories of the van train along the west Sussex coast, bringing market garden produce up to Bricklayers Arms? Was the train used regularly for any other horticultural freight flow into London?

Thanks for all your replies. I appear now to have an additional, unexpected, lineside industry... Should I use the B.R. blue S.P.V.s, in a general 'trip working' perhaps, or to really 'stretch reality' a handsome Interfrigo van, as per trials in the late 1980's? Is this at all plausible? Thanks again.

Eager to increase the variety of wagons for my 1970's-early 80's S.R. general goods yard, and inspired by Balornock Goods (Rly Modlr, July 2019), I purchased a few 'Light blue' Bachmann 10T Insulated vans recently. Would it be too great a stretching of reality for the purposes of 'Rule 1' to use them like the last Scottish fish van service in the late 1970's? I was thinking of the detaching of a few vans en route from a train from Shoreham or Newhaven to London, to serve a wholesaler. If so, do I even have the correct vans? Were the Scottish wagons ex-Insulfish S.P.V.s instead? What livery did the S.P.V.s sport (I assume rail blue)? All comments and advice gratefully received; no rush for a reply. Incidentally, there is a good one-page article in Railway World Annual 1979, p.29, by Alan Jeffreyes, that describes the decline of the traffic to its last days, which might be of interest to some. Thanks for giving this your consideration.

Just a quick shot from a late friend of my father, whose prints I have started to scan. 56 039 trundling past Chichester Yard with the Ardingly empties, 1990?

At last found and scanned some shots taken by a late chum of my father: an autumn Saturday morning at Lavant and Chichester yard. The shunter couples up 33 053... ... and they are off! Trundling round Chichester Yard... Lovely.

My apologies for returning so late to this thread. I will bow to your knowledge; "33 036" was me guessing the number from peering at the print with a failing 'Mk. I eyeball' before up-loading. I might have a note of the observation, but will amend the scan accordingly. Many thanks to you all for the correction and information.

Thanks to all of you who have chipped in with info. Alas, Southerham Cement Works had closed by 1985, Southerham being only a distribution point for Rugby Cement by then. Many thanks again for this. I thought an HAA in revenue earning service for domestic coal depots was rather unusual. Full timetable information much appreciated; my ownership of these is rather sparse. Best wishes to you all.