mikemeg

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

Before I move on with the description of these builds, I should, perhaps, clear up why I have some finished and some only part finished. I bought two of the Dapol kits, way back in 2012, which were rebuilt to the LNER 20 ton brake van and were completed. These were numbered from photos in Peter Tatlow's book and were :-

260922 with unglazed end doors and raised end platforms.

178705 with unglazed end doors and flat end platforms. This van was fitted with spoked wheels when photographed in July 1950

The second of these two models did lose its running boards, which now need to be replaced.

In 2015 I bought three more of the Dapol kits and commenced to rebuild these three :-

4472      with unglazed end doors and flat end platforms. This van was one of the CLC unfitted batch. 

278704 with glazed end doors and raised end platforms.

278710 with glazed end doors and raised end platforms.

Half way through the rebuild of these three, I started to test build etched kits and these three were 'temporarily' set aside. And they have remained 'temporarily' set aside since 2015, hidden away but not forgotten. Anyway, it was high time that they were completed so hence this set of entries in the thread.

I'm now making twelve more running boards to add to the four which belong to 178705. Note that the lower of the two running boards, on each side of the vehicle, has a gap in the upstand to fit over the axlebox. Each board is made from .015" plasticard (the running board itself) with an upstand of .010" plasticard.

Cheers

Mike

Many thanks to jwealleans and jon4470 for the information. I'll have to guess the colour - light lead grey - but, like Jonathan, the running number 4472 is hard to resist.

Cheers

Mike

15 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Brake vans are about all you can get away with like that: all the rest of the stock was divided between the LMS and LNER in 1929 and repainted/renumbered into their wagon stock.  I run a CL van on Grantham and that's an anachronism in the 1935-38 period.

Jonathan,

Thanks for the posting re the CL brake vans. The only photo I've seen, of one of these CL brake vans, is a black and white photo in Peter Tatlow's book on LNER wagons.  Would you happen to know what colour and shade these vans were painted in?

As the Toad D wasn't introduced until 1929, then that does beg the question as to when the CL unfitted vans were built?

So, some time around nationalisation, a relic of the Cheshire Lines Committee was located which had, mysteriously, escaped the repainting and incorporation into LMS/LNER stock and thus retained its livery, though much discoloured and weatherworn!!

Regards

Mike

On 08/05/2024 at 10:31, Chas Levin said:

 

Hello Mike, when it's finished, may we please see a pic or two of the CLC van, partly to see the markings?

Hi Chas,

Yes, no problem. I've just checked the relevant HMRS transfer sheet - LNER Freight Markings - and it does contain all of the necessary markings for the Cheshire Lines Committee. As all of my models are set around mid 1950, then I can just about get away with much of the stock, freight and passenger, still sporting its pre-nationalisation liveries, albeit often in a tired and weatherworn condition!

Regards

Mike

19 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

 

Just a pity that the B16 sounds like it'd be such a pig to get right- I love how the /1 type looks.

And so do I, which is why I did the test build of the LRM B16/1 kit twice. Without wishing to restart the debate as to how good (or bad) this kit is, I think I managed to convey something of the essence of these classic North Eastern 4-6-0's. I certainly enjoyed the challenge!!

And the two photos are different; look at the dome position on each picture - it differs - as do a few other minor details. One has its original NER boiler, the other the later LNER boiler. Also, the splashers are different, etc.

Somewhere else, within this thread, I referred to my first loco spotting trip  to York, in October of 1958; over sixty years ago. We saw thirty B16's (of all three variants) that day; almost half of the class. That same day, we also saw some forty of the LNER's (and BR's) Pacifics.

Happy days, now long lost in the mists of time.

Cheers

Mike

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

With the addition of the rain strips the three roofs, made in this batch, are now complete. The rain strips are made from .015" (15 thou) strips, which I cut from .010" (10 thou) sheet, and slightly formed before being stuck to the roof. One end is fixed first, allowed to set and then the other end is fixed thus forming the necessary curve.

Once the roof is painted, the full length of each rain strip will be adhered to the roof.

So there it is; scratch built roofs for the LNER 20 ton Brake Van!

The second of the photos, below, also shows the scratch built running boards. The ones in the kit are both far too thick and wrong for the LNER version of the 20 ton brake van. 

Cheers

Mike

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

Having formed the roofs, then the detailing can proceed. First the chimney base plates are added to each roof, then the chimneys are made up from 1.6 mm brass tube. On these chimneys there was a slightly larger diameter piece at the base of the chimney, which is added prior to fixing the chimney into the base plate. Two torpedo vents are then added to the roof, leaving only the handrail by the chimney and the rain strips to be added.

The van shown in the photo, below, is one of those supplied to the Cheshire  Lines Committee and will be finished in LNER grey, denoting that it is not vacuum fitted.

Cheers

Mike

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Interesting that you're getting good results with hot water in the bottle. I use a similar method but with the bottle put in the cafetiere and very hot water in both - the water in the bottle being primarily to stop it floating. But I've not tried the pre-rolling step, having only very recently got a set of rolling bars. Do you find that you get a constant radius right to the edge? I've taken to bending over-wide pieces and cutting them down to width, to avoid the flatter edges. Standard wine bottles are 3" diameter and good for 10 ft radius roofs - which do for most goods vehicles - but I have a special 2.5" diameter bottle for 8 ft radius carriage roofs.

 

By-the-way you do realise that it's not absolutely necessary to use a fresh bottle every time?

To take the 'serious' part of your posting, first. I do try and tape the piece as tightly as possible to the bottle, avoiding any flats at the edges. At first I did get the unevenness which you describe which problem was seemingly solved by putting the piece through the rollers a few times. I couldn't achieve the necessary radius using the rollers but I did achieve a consistent larger radius. The second stage, using the bottle, then simply tightened an already consistent radius to a tighter consistent radius. If in doubt, resort to the bottle!!

As to the second part of your posting, my advancing years mean that I frequently forget where I may have stored my 'constructional accessories - aka empty bottles'; forgetting that my citizen's commitment to re-cycling has led me to dispose of them. But such loss is all too easily rectified!!

Regards

Mike

6 hours ago, Suffolk Dave said:

Any opportunity to pull a cork eh! 😃

Just so. A justification for emptying the bottle; for a part filled bottle simply doesn't allow for this technique to be used. It has to be an empty one.

As you might imagine the development of this technique, perfected as it was over quite a protracted time, did involve considerable personal sacrifice. But I survived the development process and am now far more proficient in the provision of the necessary 'tools' to undertake this process.

Many thanks for your postings and do, please, continue.

Regards

Mike

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN  'TOAD D'

Next task, in this rebuild, is to make new roofs. The roof moulding in the kit, while dimensionally correct, is far too thick, so I cut new roofs from .015" plasticard and then form them using a 'tried and tested' method which does utiiise an otherwise discarded product.

The blanks are first rolled through the boiler rollers and then finished off by being taped to a wine bottle, which is then filled with very hot but not boiling water. Once cooled, the roofs now have the correct curvature.

The roofs in the photograph are simply placed on the models but not stuck; there is a lot more detail to add to them before fixing.

Cheers

Mike

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

The next stage of the brake van rebuilds is to make new cabin ends, which will allow the flush glazing and will match the vintage of the prototype being modelled i.e. whether the cabin had solid or glazed doors.

Once made and before they are glazed and assembled, I paint the ends inside and out. Much easier than when they are in place on the model.

The appropriate cabin ends can then be added to the model, once the painting and glazing is completed. On the photo, below, the guards ducket has also been glazed. The brake yolks, made from .020" x .020" plasticard strip, are also visible on this photo.

The grey end was for a model of one of the vans built by the LNER for the CLC (Cheshire Lines Committee) which were unfitted i.e. handbrake only and were painted in LNER freight grey. Some of these vans did pass into BR ownership.

Cheers

Mike

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

Ok, so at least a couple of folk would like a little more info on this conversion, so here goes!

Firstly, a very short history lesson. The LNER introduced the long wheelbase 20 ton brake van in 1929, to be used at the tail end of fitted freights in order to provide a smoother ride. An initial 20 were built which were based at locations where long distance fitted freights emanated from - Kings Cross, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Marylebone, York, Glasgow, etc. 

These initial examples had steel sheet end platforms and unglazed doors, though the ends of the cabin were glazed. This was the basic format for a number of years. Due to a shortage of iron and steel, during World War II, examples built during this period had end platforms which were raised to accommodate concrete as ballast. This modification stayed in place after the war and as part of the British Railways standard design. These later LNER built vans also had the end doors glazed as well as the cabin ends. A small angle iron truss on the underside of the solebar was also added. 

So to the Dapol kit. This represents the British Railways standard 20 ton brake van, based on the LNER design but with modifications. Also, much of the detail on this kit is moulded on i.e. handrails, lamp irons, etc. So the first task is to remove all of the moulded detail - I sand it off with very fine emery paper. Once removed, then the planking lines can be replaced, by scoring with a compass point, where this moulded detail has been removed. I also drill new 0.3 mm holes to accept new handrails at this time.

The solebars, which are plastic mouldings, I also modify by thinning the webs down and by 'excavating' some of the channel with a needle file. Then a .010" plasticard strip is glued into the solebar, which has the rivet detail, works plate and the body support brackets - see the photo below. If one of the earlier brake vans, with steel end platforms, is being modelled then the ends of the floor on the kit must be removed and replaced with plasticard (.015")  before assembly as in the photo below.

Once all of this removal and reshaping has been done, then the body and the solebars can be assembled. I also add the wheel bearings (pinpoint), wheels, brake hangars and shoes at this point. Buffers can also be added - I use ABS white metal LNER long fitted freight buffers  - at this point. 

So the photo below shows the results of these processes.

To be continued.

Cheers

Mike

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

Here's another rebuild which was posted on a previous incarnation of RMWeb. Before I embarked on the loco scratch and kit building 'fest', I spent quite a while building wagon kits, mostly the Ian Kirk kits. In the course of doing this and because many of the kits were LNER wagons, I obviously needed to build at least one of the very distinctive LNER 20 ton brake vans. However, there was no kit available to build one of these; the nearest thing, available, was the Dapol kit for the British Railways standard 20 ton brake van, which design was based on the LNER version.

So, armed with Peter Tatlow's excellent book on LNER wagons, within which were detailed drawings of the LNER 20 ton Brake Van, I acquired a number of the Dapol kits, intent on re-working  them to represent their LNER forebears.

Anyway, the result of these efforts is shown below and is my attempt at representing the very distinctive LNER 20 ton Brake Van. If anyone is interested then I will describe the various modifications and additions made to these kits to produce this model.

And yet another of those clear blue, cloud free days at Hessle Haven!

Cheers

Mike

LNER J25

Next up for painting is this one. This was the test build for the North Eastern Kits LNER J25 and will be yet another model of a Hull Dairycoates loco, as it was in mid 1950.

Might just do this one as it was on the day after it returned to Hull from a general overhaul and repaint at Darlington Works.

Cheers

Mike

4 minutes ago, 30368 said:

 

Lovely job Mike, it was probably due an overhaul anyway being still in the earliest BR livery.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

Thanks Richard

I'm sure that it hasn't escaped your notice that this loco, shown above, is not a tank loco; it's a tender loco. So though my tank engine 'habit' is by no means cured, it is now tempered, as I start on the final painting of quite a few more tender locos.

Very best regards

Mike 

LNER  J39/2

The last of the loco fleet to undergo repairs is now done and photographed being tested on the layout. This was described on the previous RMWeb incarnation and is a heavily modified and rebuilt Bachmann model. The body was significantly reworked with new handrails, glazing, etc. and the chassis is a modified Comet chassis kit assembled to P4 gauge and incorporating full, though none working, inside motion.

So more than ten years after this was done, it is now restored to its 'proper' condition.

Needless to say, 64914 was a Hull loco in 1950; part of Dairycoates J39 allocation. Since this was done, I've accumulated two more Bachmann J39 bodies (50p each!) so, one day not too far off, I'll do two more J39's; one with the 3500 gallon tender (J39/1) and one with an ex NER tender (J39/3).

Another of those clear, blue sunlit days of summer on the layout; totally unrealistic at the moment, one might say!!

Cheers

Mike

LNER T1's

So, before I return the second T1 to the 'airtight box' a last photo to check the chimney likenesses. Looks ok! Originally destined to be 69914 of Hull Dairycoates, this will now become 69920, also of Hull Dairycoates. This shed had five of this class in mid 1950, probably all used for shunting Hull New Inward Yard, which was a hump yard as opposed to the other yards which were flat.

Cheers

Mike

20 hours ago, Suffolk Dave said:

Hi Mike

 

Thanks for the insight into the locos.

 

I'm rather fond of shunters of all sizes and now I've seen this T1 kit my brain will be working on a justification for having one!  

 

Dave 

Hi Dave,

Like you I too have a fondness for shunters, of all sizes. My models are almost entirely of locomotives based in Hull around 1950. At that time, the four loco sheds in Hull could, collectively, muster around forty 0-6-0 tank shunters of classes J71, J72, J73 and J77. Then there were some twenty 0-6-2 tanks of classes N8 and N10 and five T1 4-8-0 tanks.

Add to that the various Paciific tanks of classes A5, A6, A7 and A8, along with C12's, G5's and then the little 'Y' classes. Then, of course, there were the various tender classes - B1, C7, D20, D49, J25, J39, K3, O1 and O4, WD, etc and there was a bewildering array of loco types based in the town. Ex GN, GC, GE, Midland, LNWR, L&Y and LMS locos also worked into Hull on both passenger and freight turns.

On Summer Saturdays and Sundays, the excursions to Bridlington or Scarborough could bring ex Great Central locos as well as Midland and LMS classes.

I never saw those early British Railways days but it must have been 'one hell of a place' for loco spotters.

Regards

Mike

Absolutely agree with the comments on the quality of the instructions in 52F kits; they are outstanding. My concern with the chassis of the T1 kit, as supplied, was simply that I had used High Level hornguides and axleboxes almost exclusively on my models and the continuous springy beams, fitted inside the mainframes and above the axleboxes would then obviate the need for the 8BA screwheads showing on the outside of the mainframes to provide the pivots for the two sets of compensating beams.

So while the T1 body was 'out for photographing' I did take the opportunity to :-

a) Just slightly reprofile the chimney.

b) Replace the buffers with LNER group standard ones.

Now this will have to wait for its chassis!!

Cheers

Mike

Thanks John,

I actually read the withdrawal dates on one of the Bachmann Internet entries for the J72 and the dates did seem a bit 'compressed' with a stated withdrawal date of late 1961. 1963 or early 1964 as a date for the photo makes much more sense, given the state of the paintwork.

Regards

Mike

On 01/04/2024 at 20:49, Chas Levin said:

Nice photo Mike: do you know the date it was taken?

Chas and Richard (30368),

Only two J72's were painted in the full NER lined green livery, both done in 1960. 68723 was the station pilot at Newcastle; 68736 station pilot at York. 68736 went to Newcastle in 1961 and both 68723 and 68736 were withdrawn later in 1961.

So the photo could be one of the Newcastle sheds (the V1/V3's in the background would support that) then it is after 68736's transfer; or if the photo is the scrap line at Darlington (and the V1's were withdrawn from 1960 - 1962 so that's also supported) then the photo is either late 1961 or early 1962 as neither loco seems to have spent any significant time in store and this preceded the intervention of the preservation movement.

Regards

Mike

A Brace of J77's

Perhaps on the same day as the J72's above, or maybe another clear blue, sunny day, a pair of J77's wander along the up slow.

Cheers

Mike