mikemeg

LNER B4

John,

Many thanks for the new front buffer beam etch. I've parted them and dressed off the cusp and then given them a polish with the fibre brush.

I did intend to use Arthur Kimber's brass castings for the LNER group standard buffers, on the locomotive and these do have the four corner bolts modelled on the casting. Looking more closely at the photo below, I'm not sure that the tender buffers are LNER group standard; they could be the original Great Central ones.

Different buffers, loco and tender, does sound unlikely but I have various photos which do show these types of anomalies; not least an A7 with one round and one oval buffer head on the front buffer beam or an A6 with oval buffers on the front and round ones on the rear. Even more odd, a photo of a G5, on a train, with only one front buffer head.

Now to complete the loco body detailing and the tender. Earlier in this thread there is a photo of 1482 taken in Ardsley shed c1949; three quarter view but from the rear, so I've reposted this photo below. This shows that the rear tender buffer beam did not have the profusion of rivets (or any rivets) which the front one had but there is additional 'plating' around the coupling hook slot in the buffer beam.

So if I build another B4, then I'll have at least the front buffer beam overlay, as a starter!

Once again, many thanks for providing this.

Regards

Mike

John,

Re the offer of a front buffer beam 'rivetted etch', that would be very useful and would save having to make a new buffer beam overlay.

To 65179/Simon, many thanks for the info and the references. The photo of 1482 at Driffield was actually taken in 1947, not 1950 as I had previously stated, though 1482 was seen at Driffield in the summer of 1950. The photo of 1482, above, must have been taken at Ardsley shed, shortly after Nationalisation. The last  four examples of the B4 were all based at Ardsley, by the final days of the LNER and the last one - 1482 - was withdrawn from that shed in November 1950.

I guess many of those who use this site will have heard the name Neville Stead; that photo of1482 was a part of his collection. Neville passed away on March 9th of this year, aged 85. Like many of my youthful colleagues, we knew Neville as part of the band of spotters and enthusiasts who congregated at Hessle Station and Hessle Haven during the 1950's and early 1960's. Indeed the inspiration for my Hessle Haven layout was an illustrated article written by Neville for one of the railway journals.

Neville moved to Whitley Bay in the mid 1960's and thus we lost touch with him  but continued to read his articles and some of the publications which he authored or inspired i.e. LNER  Locomotive Allocations The Last Day, which was published and authored by Willie Yeadon as a result of Neville's idea.

So R.I.P. Neville, and thank you for your legacy.

Mike

LNER B4

So now to go back and complete the processes which have been left as the assembly proceeded. First such job is to complete the cylinders by infilling the straight sections between the cylinder and the mainframe, top and bottom on each side. For this I simply cut pieces of brass strip of the appropriate width and solder them to the cylinder formers.

On all cylinders which transition from curved to straight sections, especially the North Eastern ones, I always use separate straight sections rather than try and fold the straight section into the cylinder wrapper. The transition is often so tight that folding just doesn't give a sharp enough transition. On this model I have used the same approach though the straight sections are largely hidden.

Having fitted the straight sections to the cylinder formers, the wrapper can then be rolled, trimmed if necessary and then soldered to the cylinder formers.

The cylinder fronts, which are again quite beautiful turnings, are simply pushed into the wrappers to check the fit and are not yet soldered in until the tail rods have been fitted to each front cover.

The instructions make mention that the original tail rods were far longer than those later fitted to these locos by the LNER, however I still need to establish how long these shorter LNER fitted tail rods, actually were.

Cheers

Mike

1 hour ago, 18131r said:

Hi Mike

 

I came across a you tube video by the 0 Gauge Guild in which they were interviewing a professional model railway painter, I can't remember his name but he used

"Magic Tape" to produce his boiler bands in the same way you have used masking tape. He stuck the tape onto plasticard rather that hardboard.

 

Might be worth trying if yours come unstuck.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

Richard,

Thanks for that tip. Sticking the tape to hardboard, obviously the shiny, smooth side, does leave a residue on the tape, which does affect its adhesion to anything else. Plasticard should remove this problem and will probably leave much more of the adhesive on the tape.

Once again, many thanks.

Mike

LNER B4

After a day or two away from the workbench, It's back to the B4.

I've been experimenting with ways of portraying boiler bands, having always previously used Arthur's etched nickel silver ones, thinned down. I used some adhesive masking tape, which was lightly stuck to a piece of hardboard. From this an 0.7 mm wide strip was cut. Now the test was/is whether the masking tape had retained enough adhesive, once released from the hardboard, to adhere to the brass boiler. It did, so the front and rear boiler bands were duly fitted and, so far, have stayed fitted.

I also cut and fitted the cab rear handrails, which should line up with various holes in the cab beading and the cab floor. They did, somewhat to my surprise, though this is another testament to the precision of the kit's design!!

Finally, if only to really make this look like a locomotive and an ex Great Central locomotive at that, suitable holes were opened out in the boiler and smokebox to check out the dome and chimney. Worth mentioning that the dome, which is a quite beautiful casting/turning was attached to a 4.5 mm diameter stem, so the corresponding hole in the boiler is quite large. The chimney does not have a stem but still requires a 3mm hole to be opened up in the smokebox.

Having said that, the fit of the dome and chimney over the boiler and smokebox is absolutely snug; the best I've ever seen!!

As I now proceed with this build I am more and more encouraged for though 'it is not for the faint hearted' it is perfectly capable of being built; with care.

Now to complete the cylinders and a few other details on the chassis prior to wheeling and powering this chassis.

Cheers

Mike

LNER B4

While getting to the current state of this model, I have omitted some parts of the assembly, intent on coming back to these parts at a later stage. One such assembly is the two cab footsteps, which I deliberately left off until the bulk of the 'heavy work' on the locomotive superstructure was completed. So with the addition of the piano valve cover, the heavy stuff is complete so I can now do the detailing jobs.

The two cab cupboards / seats were assembled some time ago but can now be trial fitted into the cab, though they are not yet soldered to the cab floor. The drag beam has also been assembled and fitted with its buffers. Here again I departed from the instructions! The two rear buffers have shanks around 0.8 mm diameter which engage with holes in the drag beam. This seemed a little flimsy, so I fitted each shank of the two buffers into lengths of 1/16" brass tube around 5 mm  long, which was then soldered into the drag beam, flush with the backing plates, so that none of this tube is visible. This provides a much better base for these buffers.

With the drag beam, I opted to solder it to the mainframes, using tiny lugs which are provided on the end of each mainframe. This soldered joint was then extended to solder the  bottom of the drag beam to the rearmost frame spacer, so providing a much stronger join.

One photo, below, shows the current state of the cab end including the portion of the firebox which protrudes into the cab .  The footplate widening, just aft of the cylinders, is more clearly visible on this photo.

The other photo shows the two cab footstep assemblies each with its reinforcing  struts folded and attached, ready to fit under the cab, flush with the drag beam. Each of the step assemblies on the prototype was 'pinched in' by around 2 inches (0.6 mm), just above the upper step, so that the protruding steps would clear the loading gauge. This pinching in is reproduced on the model.

It's getting easier now!!

Cheers

Mike

John,

Many thanks for the additional information. The handrail knob locations are relatively easy to alter. On all of the models I have built, I never solder the handrail knobs in place, I prefer to glue them in place. I always position them using a piece of handrail wire which is progressively threaded onto the knobs in place, front to back, so that each successive one fitted can be adjusted so as not to divert the handrail from straight.

Using glue, albeit relatively quick setting, does allow for the final slight adjustments to be made to achieve that uniformity of height and orientation, using the positioning piece of handrail wire. Obviously, the first one fitted - usually the smokebox knob - relies, solely, on the piece of handrail wire being truly horizontal. Once all of the handrail knobs are fitted, then the trial piece is discarded and the final one piece handrail is shaped and fitted.

For boiler bands, Arthur has produced a nickel silver etch of these with .005" (scale 3/8") sheet. These can be further thinned to around .002" to .003" (scale 0.15" to 0.225") however they are 'thickened', by the thickness of the layer of solder, when soldering them to the boiler. On this model, I shall certainly use the Alan Gibson sellotape solution.

I have fitted the firebox portion, which protrudes into the cab, which was included in my measurements to ascertain just how much longitudinal space was available for the gearbox/motor (c 45 mm), so my target is to fit a Mashima 1428, as shown in your diagram.

Once again many thanks both for your interest and for the information which you have provided throughout this build;  please keep it coming.

Regards

Mike

21 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Nice job Mike, looks immaculate!

Thanks Chas

I have to say that this one has taken somewhat longer than it should have done. This is due to my being very cautious with this one; not wanting to rush and mess up and also due to doing other things totally unconnected to making models.

Anyway, I'm now well on the way to completion.

Cheers

Mike

The boiler has now had a coil of sheet lead fitted inside it, which adds around 6 ounces to the overall weight of the loco. The boiler and firebox were then soldered together, ensuring that the positioning remained compatible with the smokebox sitting between the upper portions of the mainframes.

On the front footplate I have departed from the instructions by removing the piano valve cover from the front footplate, which has then been fitted to the main footplate sections. A separate, scratch built valve cover will be added next, to complete the basic loco superstructure.

The kit provides the option of fitting the front buffer beam to the mainframes or to the front footplate section. I'm still unsure as to which will be the best option. Fitting the buffer beam to the front of the mainframes will probably be the sturdier option, as long as there is no gap between the top of the buffer beam and the front footplate. Otherwise, if the buffer beam is fitted to the front footplate then some strengthening of the join may be necessary.

Cheers

Mike

My thanks to those contributors who pointed out that the last few postings were made by Mike Megginson, not mikemeg; even though we share the same being. This was due to my changing browser and using a different system, temporarily, to post to the thread.

Anyway, I'm now back as mikemeg and the 'interloper' is banished, at least for now. Both of the systems which I use to access this website now know that I am mikemeg!!

Cheers

Mike

LNER B4

The inner smokebox wrapper has now been rolled and the smokebox former folded up. Using the top handrail stanchion hole and a hole in the wrapper to align the wrapper on the former, this was then soldered to the former leaving the lower part of the smokebox unsoldered. The front of the boiler was then inserted into the smokebox and aligned, again using a hole in the top of the front of the boiler wrapper and a corresponding hole in the rear of the top of the smokebox. A hole which will be later opened up to accept the snifting valve.

Finally the bottom of the smokebox wrapper was clamped tight around the boiler and soldered up. Next step is to fit one of the two external smokebox wrappers supplied; one flush riveted, one pop rivetted. As this model is intended to portray the prototype in its final year (1950) then the pop rivetted wrapper will be used.

The piece in front of the front splashers, which appears to support the boiler, is a temporary support piece which will be removed once the footplate is fully completed.

My query as to how much space is available within the firebox and the cut away section of the boiler bottom is now answered. There is some 34 mm within the firebox and a further 11.5 mm within the boiler, so 45.5mm to accept the gearbox and motor.

If the model looks a little 'truncated' at the front end, there is still a curved section of footplate to add plus the front buffer beam and its furniture, which will restore the aesthetics to what they should look like.

After some weeks of adding 'micro' bits and pieces, it's good to be adding the 'macro' bits and pieces; much easier to see them!! And yes, the smokebox has also been 'bulled up' for the photo.

Cheers

Mike

LNER B4

Here's a 'dodge' which I use on almost all of my models of tender locomotives, which does conflict with prototype accuracy but which makes the handling and positioning of the cab rooves much easier.

Tiny pieces of .020" plasticard are cut (5 mm long) and glued to the forward corners of the inside of the cab roof. These pieces are attached so that they are an interference fit with the cab sides and also provide the correct locating of the cab roof with respect to the cab front.

Once the cab interior is painted and suitably 'mucked up' these tiny strips are virtually invisible and can only be seen by peering into the cab from the tender front, which doesn't happen very frequently on 4 mm models. Only the 4 mm scale crew really know they are there!!

Cheers

Mike

LNER B4

Now shaped and then detailed the cab roof. The cab roof  bracing straps are suppled as straight pieces of 'L' and 'T' section brass, which must  then be annealed (to soften the brass) and then the end sections cut and curved from the 'L' section strip. The side sections are also cut from the 'L' section strip and are shaped at their ends to lie flush over the lower web of the end bracings. The centre bracing strap is cut from 'T' section brass strip and is, again, shaped at the ends to lie over the lower web of the 'L' sections.

After this lot was assembled and before sitting down with a large glass of something red and alcholic, the roof was cleaned up to remove any flux, solder and muck.

Luckily, the curvature of the roof seems to exactly match that of the cab front so no further fettling or curving is necessary.

Cheers

Mike

13 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

It is indeed looking more like a loco, Mike; it's also looking like something that's been soldered together, but with virtually no solder left visible, something to which I still aspire!

Chas,

Some fairly simple practices to avoid unnecessary solder showing :-

a) Wherever possible, solder joints from the inside.

b) When soldering two parts together, trial fit the joint to ensure that the two parts join with no visible gap, before soldering as solder will leech through any gaps and show.

c) When soldering parts which have 'matching' curves i.e. splasher tops to splasher fronts, ensure that the curves match before any solder is applied.

d) Where solder does escape or show then, wherever possible, use fine emery or a glass fibre brush to remove it.

e) Tinning parts can often provide better results than simply applying solder to a joint.

f) Using the correct iron also helps- enormously!

I'm sure that other folk could/can add many other tips to this list. Perhaps the most relevant tip would simply be that, like many activities, the more of it one does, the better one becomes!!

Regards

Mike

LNER B4

All of the splashers have now been assembled, as has the cab floor, which is in two layers - upper and lower - with two 12 BA nuts sandwiched and soldered between the two layers to facilitate fixing the chassis to the body.

The two footplate cupboards have been assembled and trial fitted, along with the shelf and foot board on the left hand cupboard. There are some tiny etches which represent the cupboard door hinges, little more than 1 mm square, which fit into etched recesses on the rear of the cupboard assemblies; some of the smallest etches I've ever seen.

The shelf and footboard are interesting in that they are formed of two layers with a half etched edge to each layer, such that when the layers are folded back on each other, one edge (the edge visible on the shelf and footboard on the left hand cupboard) becomes rounded to represent the rounded edge of these wooden fixtures.

Once the right hand cupboard is completed then onto the cab roof and then forward to the boiler, etc.

Looking a little more like a locomotive!

Cheers

Mike

LNER B4

Richard,

Many thanks for the information and photos of your B9. The reason that I have delayed fully assembling the chassis is that because I am fitting the inside motion, then I am almost compelled to drive the B4 from the rear axle, as there will not be sufficient space on the centre axle to accept the eccentric cams and the gearbox and final drive gear. This then  constrains the orientation of the motor to facing forward either horizontally or some form of diagonal, Thus, until I have the boiler and firebox assembled and checked, I can't be sure of the maximum motor size which can be accommodated.

As for Spring, here in Scarborough; we have been blessed, recently, with some dry and reasonably sunny weather, however we are still 'afflicted' with an easterly wind off the sea; and the sea is currently at its coldest, so that wind is a mite chilly.

Regards

Mike

LNER B4

The firebox has now been soldered to the cab front, after completing the section of the firebox which actually lies inside the cab. The cab sides/firebox were then soldered to the footplate, after which the two centre splasher fronts have been fitted to the footplate. The nameplate - Immingham - is actually etched with the two centre splasher fronts, so no need to order separate nameplates.

At last, 1482 - 'Immingham' begins to resemble a locomotive and an ex Great Central locomotive at that!! I will complete the body, at least structurally, before assembling the gearbox and motor as I am not certain what size of Mashima 14xx will actually fit into the firebox/boiler. Hopefully I can get a 1426 or even 1428 into it but we shall see.

As if progress on this build wasn't slow enough, it has been further slowed by the arrival of some spring weather, which allows me to get out into the gardens to prepare them for summer.

Cheers

Mike

1 hour ago, JohnBateson said:

A length of "L" under the platform will stop this lot bending while doing the heavy stuff. Only do the valences after the firebox, boiler and smoke box provide a good lock.

Don't forget to remove the front support bracket , it is an assembly guide not a permanent fixture.

Thanks John.

Any and all advice on building this kit is very welcome. I'm going nowhere near my usual pace on this but that is down to my unfamiliarity with your design and engineering methods.

The front support bracket is only 'tack soldered' to the two footplate sections, so should be reasonably easy to remove when appropriate.

Regards

Mike

LNER B4

While I await the delivery of the last parts to fully complete the chassis, I have made a start on the locomotive superstructure. The footplate has been partially assembled, the cab sides have been detailed with their brass beading strips and the beading around the cab side cut outs. The cab front has also been detailed and the splasher tops curved to the approximate profile needed. The Belpaire firebox is almost complete, just one more inspection hatch (where the wire is protruding), the wash out plugs and Ross pop safety valves to add

A test set up, with the cab sides and front just resting on each other and the partially completed firebox also just positioned against the cab front and sides. This should solder up without too much trouble.

Believe it or not, in building well over thirty etched brass kits this is the first Belpaire firebox I have ever done.

Cheers

Mike

LNER B4

After an unplanned lay of from the workbench - with the flu - now back to the B4. The front bogie has been assembled and checked for clearances so now the various sub-assemblies can be put together to form the working chassis. After that the gearbox and motor can be added. The gearbox will be a High Level Highflyer with a Mashima 1424 motor. Shortly before Mashima ceased production of their motors I bought a couple of dozen, of various sizes, which I am still using up.

Cheers

Mike

15 hours ago, JohnBateson said:

I would leave the lifting arms in a fixed position so that they fix throught the bottom half of the link - there is just not enough strength in tne reversing arm to get the whole lot to move - if you have you have a reverser in the cab complete with turning handle and it operates the lifting axle that would really be an acheivement. That was a step too far for me. Way too far!

John,

My plan for the motion is to minimise the friction / resistance on this. Realistically, the only part of the working motion which will be discernible - as moving - is the movement of the eccentric links and the valve rods from the middle driving axle to the eccentric links. Even the slight movement of the valve spindles (3 - 4 mm at max.), at the eccentric end, won't be seen once the boiler covers this lot.

So the reversing  / lifting axle will be fixed, as will everything on that axle, once the rotating rods have been correctly positioned and attached to the lifting rods (using removable pins). The lifting rods shouldn't move under normal operating conditions as they are pivoted at the centre of the eccentric link, though the eccentric links oscillate about that joint so there is a bearing here.

As to the joint for the valve spindles, I am tempted to leave them unattached to the eccentric links, though positioned at the bottom of those links with an overlapping, though unpinned joint. Effectively, the bottom of the eccentric link will slide in the ends of the fixed valve spindles.

As for extending the 'animation' of this to include the reverser linkage within the cab; no. This, as you have said, is a step way too far.

The 22 - 24 mm high crews, who will be charged with 'driving' this model, will just have to put up with a reduction of functionality within their cab!! After all, even for the 4mm live steam models, the fireman is redundant!!

Regards

Mike

LNER B4

Well, after a few days of assembling various tiny assemblies, checking that they move freely - if they are intended to move - and then musing for an hour or so as to how to assemble the reversing axle, with everything on it and insert the whole lot between the mainframes without losing any of the parts.

The reversing axle contains, 2.3 mm spacer, rotating arm lhs, 4.5 mm spacer, counterweight and arm, 4.5 mm spacer, rotating arm rhs, 2.0 mm spacer, reversing axle actuator; all threaded onto a 0.8 mm rod, notionally 17.0 mm long. The whole lot is then slotted into two holes, one in each mainframe.

The  ends of the rotating arms will carry the joints to the lifting arms on the eccentric assemblies thus holding these assemblies in place and in position. They will be pinned with removable pins to facilitate the motion being removed for servicing, etc.  

Anyway, after a little experimentation the axle with its attendant parts was successfully inserted between the mainframes and quickly soldered into place, to prevent the whole lot falling out. All of the components mounted on the axle are still free to rotate on the 0.8 mm rod until the final assemblies are fitted and adjusted.

As an aside, the counterweight is a very fine brass component, separately packed and labelled as part of the kit, though it has to be drilled to accept the balance arm. 

Now for the real test; actually making this lot work!!

Cheers

Mike

LNER B4

With the assembly of the reversing axle incorporating the rotating arms - which lift or lower the eccentric links and thus change the valve travel - then the various motion components are now almost complete. Still need to add two more tiny (2.0 mm) pieces of 1/16" tube to the axle to hold the rotating arms in place to fully complete the motion. The actual valve spindles are done but not shown on this photo.

Cheers

Mike