mikemeg

Thanks to Chas and 'Blandford 1969' for the kind words.

Clearly, it is gratifying to watch the various 'counts of approval' as the numbers grow, but it is the individual postings which are even more gratifying, whether on topic, off topic or, sometimes just critical. It's those comments which make participation on this site so worthwhile.

Now I've just received an order for more wheels and crankpin components from Alan Gibson, which will allow not only the J21 and N8 to be completed but another tank engine which has lain 'bereft of wheels' these many months. So another large ex North Eastern tank will soon join the line of big tanks on the layout. 

As to the Q7, I know Arthur is continuing to work on this so I must leave any detailed comments to Arthur.

Cheers

Mike

45 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Hi Mike

 

Yes, they were certainly survivors - but apart from being well designed & built, they were well suited to this sort of work on the Stainmore route.

 

To digress slightly - J21s, J27s & Q6s - the NER certainly built 'em to last 

 

Mark

 

Mark,

No problem with slight digressions; this thread is full of them!!

Yes, some of the ex North eastern locos were some of the last survivors of steam in the North East. The Q6 on the NYMR is, I believe, now over one hundred years old and the most famous steam locomotive of them all (arguably) though ex Great Northern,  Flying Scotsman, is also pretty close to one hundred and is still working! 

Regards

Mike

On 04/03/2022 at 19:58, MarkC said:

Definitely Penrith, even without looking at the running-in board on the right of shot

 

As you say, Mike, if you turned out a model like that, there would be howls of outrage from some!

 

What an atmospheric post-war shot too - everything filthy & looking down at heel - and note the patch on the cabside where some paint has been slapped on to cover the old number before the new ones were applied. At least they're straight 

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the posting. Even in 1946, this loco must have been between 50 and 60 years old,  as they were built in the period 1886 - 1894.

Cheers

Mike

This photo of an actual J21 might be of interest. We worry about footplates being dead straight and loco and tender ride heights being exactly similar when building these models. Anyway, this photo (1946 or later) shows one of Kirkby Stephen's (51H) J21's - a superheated example - on a passenger train.

Everything we try and avoid is present on this loco!!

I think the location is Penrith; perhaps someone can confirm?

Cheers

Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

The wheels have now been added and quartered, allowing the coupling rods to be located on the crankpins and then checked to ensure that the wheels rotate without any binding. The coupling rod journals have not yet been opened out to accept the Alan Gibson crankpin collets so are a pretty tight fit over the crankpins. The grub screw on the final drive gear wheel has not yet been tightened onto the rear axle, which allows the rolling chassis to be checked and adjusted without disturbing the motor or gearbox mountings.

The photo also acts as a check on the ride heights of the loco and tender, which appear to be about right.

My earlier photo of the 'three wheeler' did seem to cause the odd comment and some may even have thought I 'was taking the mickey'. No; the three wheel test, on 0-6-0's, is a regular part of the tests to check the limits of movement of the compensating beams and the front driving axle pivot and with this model, to get the correct ride heights of loco and tender

Next job is the completion of the loco brake gear and then onto the final detailing phases.

Cheers

Mike

17 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Ha - now you're toying with us Mike: I've heard of three-wheeled cars, but never a three-wheeled steam loco! 

 

Very interesting though to learn how three-wheeled operation affects the beams. The workings of compensation fascinate me; I've had comparatively small experience so far but plan to gain a lot more...

Chas,

Almost all of Arthur's kits make use of compensating beams, though I do need to verify the eight coupled locos as to that statement. Certainly on the six coupled locos, the middle and rear driving wheelsets can use this arrangement, with the front driving wheelset being 'pivoted' on a centrally located beam which bears on the front driving axle. The four coupled locos simply use the compensating beams on both driving wheelsets.

The vertical movement allowed, at each end of the compensating beam depends on the horn guides and axleboxes used, but probably needs to be no more than 1.0 mm in total, which should be adequate to accommodate the inequalities in most trackwork.

All of the kits can, however, be built as rigid chassis' and one piece coupling rod etchings are included for this as an alternative to the articulated coupling rods. Where springing is preferred to the use of compensating beams, then Continuous Springy Beams (CSB's) can be used.

For horn guides and axleboxes I only have experience of the High Level products though I know that other suppliers may use slightly different approaches to the provision of the horn guides on 'sliding axleboxes' i.e. Brassmaster, Alan Gibson, David Bradwell etc.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Mike

On 02/03/2022 at 10:54, mikemeg said:

 

Chas,

 

Seriously, the next photo of this model will have wheels on; honest!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

I just didn't stipulate how many wheels!!

The very slight difference in loco and tender ride heights is due to the absence of corresponding wheels on the other side, which causes the compensating beams to deflect upwards slightly too much. 

Now to finish the job!

Cheers

Mike

12 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I was just trying to work out a tactful and suitably respectful way of asking why the loco and tender footplates were at different levels when I looked more closely and realised the loco isn't wheeled yet!

 

Perhaps my wife's right and we do need to get our eyes ttested again...

Chas,

Thanks for the posting. I knew something was wrong or missing; the running in trials have, so far, not been very successful!!

Seriously, the next photo of this model will have wheels on; honest!

Regards

Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

Change of plan, with this test build. Having already built two vacuum fitted J21's, I looked for, and found, photos of a non vacuum fitted example - 65070 - taken in the early 1950's. Oddly, this loco, and some others, were allocated to ex-Great Northern sheds - Doncaster and Retford - during the 1950's. Unfortunately all of the photos of this loco are not generally available so cannot be reproduced here.

The example chosen - 65070 of 36E, Retford - was not vacuum fitted, had LNER group standard buffing and draw gear and had the single compensated brake pull rod. This loco also sported a later 3038 gallon tender with the oval frame cut outs and three coal rails.

So Arthur's 3038 gallon tender kit has been modified to produce the three coal rail version.

Cheers

Mike

On 12/02/2022 at 14:23, micknich2003 said:

Mike, as always a nice job. Dairycoates was 53A and not has you state above.

Thanks Mick and well spotted. Given how many Dairycoates locos I've built, I should know the shed code by now. I really need to fit my locos with appropriate shed plates covering 53A, B and C (Hull Dairycoates, Botanic Gardens and Springhead respectively) with the odd 50C and D (Selby and Harrogate Starbeck) in there as well.

Regards

Mike

34 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Thank you. I do have a Dremel. I need to buy some more cutting disks.

Possible Eileens or Squires?

Can you suggest other sources?

 

Is there an issue about heating affecting the motor?

To reduce the heating effect, on the motor, it's worth just applying the disk for a few seconds and then allowing the whole thing to cool before re-applying the Dremel back into the cut. I've never had a motor show any adverse signs after this cropping and there's quite a large 'heat sink' surrounding the motor shaft.

A  few years ago I did have a Mashima overheat very badly, following a gear crunch, such that it continued to run but became so hot that it could not be touched after a few seconds running. 

Mark, might also have a view on this.

Cheers

Mike

7 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I agree - mine, also a mains job, is of similar vintage & with all sorts of extras as well.

 

I do wish that I'd bought one sooner, rather than faffing about with 'el Cheapo' ones for years.

 

Mark

Mark,

Yes so do I (bought one sooner). Mine too came with all sorts of attachments, including a number of slitting disks (around 15 mm diameter) which I have used dozens of times, perhaps even hundreds. I'm still using the original supply of these disks and there are still a few as yet unused.

The quality of the product and its packaging was/is excellent.

Cheers

MIke

46 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Please may I ask how you 'crop' motor shafts?

You may indeed. I use a Dremel rotary tool which has, as one of its attachments, a screw chuck for holding slitting disks. This will cut through a 1.5 mm or 2.0 mm motor shaft in under ten seconds. The piece which is parted will be extremely hot if picked up immediately as this slitting does generate quite a bit of heat.

Look up Dremel on t'internet and you'll see these devices and their various options and functions. Mine is some ten years old, is mains driven (240 volt) and came with various chucks and attachments for polishing, de-burring, slitting, etc.

It is a very useful tool in all sorts of ways. Usual disclaimer; I'm just a satisfied customer.

Regards

Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

One of the problems which I always have with these 0-6-0 tender locos, with daylight under the boiler, is where to drive them. The favourite choice, for ease of setting up and for free running, is the middle axle. But fitting the gearbox and drive train to the middle axle, invisibly, is almost impossible; some large part of it will be visible.

However, driving on the rear axle can avoid this 'invasion' of the daylight under the boiler but does require the chassis to be very free running with absolutely no tight spots, such that it will not 'snatch' under operating conditions. All of my 0-6-0 tender locos - J21's, J24 and J25 therefore utilise the same approach, namely driving the rear axle. However, this then introduces another set of issues which must be overcome :-

The final drive needs to be articulated such that it will fit and operate under the cab floor.

The motor must be installed vertically or near vertically (at best diagonally) and this then restricts the choice of motor to something in the xx20 range i.e. less than or equal to 20 mm length.

On a compensated chassis, as this one is, the drive train must operate within the compensating components and must not impede their operation, which then forces the need for the drive train to move with the rear axle as it moves with the compensating beams, even though this movement is relatively small. So clearance on the articulated drive train must allow for this movement.

Anyway, using the High Level Roadrunner Compact, with the articulated final drive carriage and with a little re-shaping of the stage 1 motor and gear housing, then the above criteria can be met.

The photo shows the orientation of the motor against the body, though the parallax on the photo is a little confusing - the chassis looks a lot longer than the loco body, which, of course, it's not. I still need to crop off the top shaft of the Mashima 1220 and do the final checks but the checking, so far done, seems to pass muster.

If micklner reads this posting, you asked the question, a while ago, 'has Arthur included the riveted strips around the splashers on this kit? The photo below shows these strips quite clearly and, hopefully, answers your question.

Cheers

Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

While waiting for parts, I've moved the J21 test build forward making a start on the tender and adding details to the loco body. I now have everything needed to complete this build, which will be done over the next week or two. So this is the current state of this build.

Cheers

Mike

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

Having assembled the High Level Roadrunner Compact gearbox (60 : 1 ratio) and attached the motor, which is a Mashima 1420 from my 'stock' of Mashimas, then time to make the final checks on the orientation of the articulated carriage of the gearbox, such that the motor does not foul the backhead positioning.

If my measurements and calculations are correct, then the motor, with the rear shaft cropped off, should clear the backhead casting. It will; phew!!

As mentioned earlier, the slide bars and motion plate, fitted to this chassis, are from Arthur's J21 kit and are the unused EM parts. Arthur always provides triplicated parts for OO, EM and P4 gauges on all parts which span the mainframes i.e. motion plates, frame spacers, brake hanger stretchers, etc.

Quite a lot of detail has also been added to the body of the N8 including Arthur's tank filler castings, whistles, safety valves, buffers, etc. The clack valve castings fitted, are from the original kit.

Cheers

Mike

The olive oil thing was only as a last resort when I looked around for something to use when assembling Arthur's articulated coupling rods. I make very tiny steel pins for the articulated joints on these coupling rods, which must be soldered into one journal but must pass through the other and remain unsoldered. In the absence of any other oil (I'd run out of clock oil and the WD40 can was also empty) I tried olive oil, just dipping the tiny pin into a small amount  in an egg cup. Prior to soldering the end of the pin, I wiped away the oil on the protruding part of the pin, with a cotton bud, before applying flux. The solder adhered where it was needed and did not adhere where not needed.

Flushed with that success, I tried the stuff as a 'mask' to prevent primer from settling on certain areas, which it does very well. Once the primer is dry then a quick wipe with a cotton bud should remove the oil and the paint settled on it and restore the surface to a non-greasy state.

Olive oil is an organic product but isn't crude oil also an organic product, albeit organisms which lived many millions of years ago?

The photo below shows where these pins are, though this photo was taken during the B16/1 build. Both the coupling rods and the crosshead small ends have these tiny pins and hence, this requirement.

Cheers

Mike

2 hours ago, ozzyo said:

Why olive oil?

 

OzzyO.

The short answer as to 'why olive oil' is that I have an egg cup full of this stuff, near the workbench. Prior experience has shown that it makes an excellent solder inhibitor and paint inhibitor, as it will stand fairly high temperatures without boiling away and the smell is quite pleasant when it gets hot! I have also used this stuff as a lubricant for wheel bearings, in the absence of clock oil, which is the more normal lubricant.

I normally apply the olive oil with the end of cocktail stick, which prevents it from straying onto areas where solder or paint does need to flow.

That's the current (tempted to spell this word with an 'a' not the 'e') extent of the 'culinary approach' to model locomotive building.

Cheers

Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

And the j21 chassis is now progressing along with the N8 chassis. Next stage on this one is to fit the compensating beams and pivot and the 'furniture' to the mainframes - brake hangar brackets, guard irons, etc. - as well as the inside slide bars and simplified motion details, etc.

Cheers

Mike

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

The heavily modified chassis for the N8 is now approaching completion. The one piece mainframes, with the rear section pinched in by .030" (0.75mm) can be seen. The brake hangar brackets have been attached as have the front and rear guard irons.

The  cylinder rear plate and the motion plate have come from Arthur's J21 kit and are the EM components (the J21 test build is to P4 gauge so these components were spare) modified to fit inside this chassis. I still have to fit slide bars and some semblance of the inside motion for this model, which will be done before the chassis is finally wheeled and powered. Next stage is to apply a coat of weathered black to the chassis with some weathering of the mainframes, inside and out.

This model will be fitted with the later compensated centrally mounted brake pull rod, again using unused parts from Arthur's J21 kit as the J21 build will utilise the outside pull rods. Fortunate, indeed, that the wheelbase and spacing of the N8 are identical to the J21, allowing unused parts from the J21 kit to be used on this model.

The slides on the High Level axle guides were coated with olive oil, prior to priming  this chassis, which prevents the whole lot from gluing up solid, so that everything still slides easily on the compensated chassis. The CSB tabs, on the centre axle are simply there as retainers to stop the compensating beam ends from sliding off the much narrower spacesaver axle boxes, which were used on the centre driving axle, where the gearbox will be fitted.

Now to get back to the J21 as I now have the gearbox.

Cheers

Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

After a very short wait (delivered within a few days) from High Level Models, I now have the requisite items to push on with the J21 and the N8. So having fitted the High Level horn guides and axle boxes to the J21 mainframes and then assembling and fitting the mainframe driving wheel springs, the two mainframes are located onto the chassis jig, with one of the coupling rods fitted as a check to ensure that everything lines up on wheel spacing.

All seems ok so the assembly of the chassis can now proceed. The chassis jig has just had a good 'clean up' to try and remove the effects of seven or eight years of being 'attacked' by soldering flux and other corrosive fluids!

Cheers

Mike

20 hours ago, 18131r said:

Mike

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and for your kind offer for help in the future, it is very much appreciated.

My 1/8th reamer arrived this morning now I will get the D20 chassis finished before starting the bodywork.

Thank you once again

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Richard,

You're welcome.

I'll try and locate a photo of the pick up arrangements on these two models. Basically, I built two plasticard platforms, one either side, projecting between the tops of the driving wheels and over the tops of the mainframes. The pick ups, located at the top of the driving wheels (and thus hidden from view) were attached to brass strips, which were superglued to these plasticard platforms.

This solution isn't ideal, as it relies on only two wheels each side, so I still need to arrange a pick up to the front (or ideally both) sets of bogie wheels to get a better reliability on electrical pick up. Either that or some form of tender pick up to achieve the required distribution of pick ups!!

Regards

Mike