mikemeg

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 Still in the 'chassis fabrication shop', the revised mainframes for the F8 have been assembled. The 'pinched in sections' use spacers to achieve the reduction in frame separation, which are all located and lined up with slots and in the narrower end, a hole - visible in the lower mainframe around 1/3 of the way from the left hand end. Suitable pieces of 0.015" nickel silver offcuts ,pushed into the slots, line up the various layers, with a small broach pushed into the hole adding to the accuracy of the alignment. Once the multiple layers are soldered up, the scrap pieces and broach are then removed. The locating slots can easily be filled, using small pieces of 0.5 mm wire pushed into the slots, soldered and then filed flat. The topmost mainframe, in the photo below, has been so treated. The driving wheel springs, which are etched separately from the mainframes, are comprised of two layers of 0.015" nickel silver soldered together, so when assembled, they really do give the impression of the 'chunkiness' of these things! Now to assemble these frames into a chassis. Cheers Mike

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8 While I was in the 'chassis fabrication shop' on the F8, I thought I would tackle the chassis on the N8. As designed, the swinging of the rear carrying wheels is achieved by the whole of the rear section of the chassis, including the rear part of the mainframes, swinging; effectively an articulated chassis. This is to allow the model to traverse very tight curves, by allowing the carrying wheels to deflect far more than the mainframes would normally allow. As with the F8, there are no cut outs in the mainframes to allow for the deflection of the carrying wheels. While this arrangement will definitely work, I just didn't like it, so decided to re-engineer the main frames so that they are each in only one piece and the deflection of the rear carrying wheels is facilitated by narrowing the separation between the rear part of the mainframes. The point at which the mainframes are 'pinched in' will actually lie behind the cab footsteps so. from normal viewing angles, that transition should be invisible. Anyway, the first frame has been modified and seems ok. The rear portion of the mainframe, as supplied, is slightly less deep than the remaining portion so this will need to be augmented once the mainframes are assembled but that should be relatively simple to achieve. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 When I test built the chassis for this model, I built it based on the limiting radii of my own layout, which are a minimum of 4' 6" radius on curves and minimum B7 on all point work. Thus I was pretty sure that the chassis for the F8, as initially designed, would easily traverse those curves without any fouling of the carrying wheels against the frames. On this first build, the chassis was, effectively, configured as an 0-6-2 with only the trailing carrying wheels able to swing. The front carrying wheels relied on side play to follow the curves. Clearly this arrangement would not suit the tighter curves of many layouts, whether OO, EM or P4 and the absence of mainframe cut outs, for the carrying wheels, did not allow much 'swing' on the front or rear carrying wheels. To cope with this, Arthur has re-designed the chassis, so that a much greater range of options can be exercised in assembling the chassis. The driving wheels can still be assembled either rigid, using top hat bearings, or compensated using separate horn guides and axleboxes with compensating beams. That arrangement was provided in the first chassis design and is the one used in my chassis build. The front and rear sets of carrying wheels can still be assembled without the provision of 'swinging' by utilising mainframe narrowing at both ends. Each mainframe can be narrowed by .030" by use of one or two layers of mainframe packing. Each of the carrying axles can be built as rigid or can be compensated and pivoted on a central beam. Thus the wheels can be configured as an 0-8-0, relying on the increased side play of the narrowed frames to allow the carrying wheels to negotiate curves. Additionally, or alternatively, pony trucks are provided for both front and rear carrying wheels, though again relying on the narrowing of the mainframe separation to provide the necessary clearance for the axle to swing. By this means the assembled chassis should be capable of negotiating much tighter curves. So here, the wheels can be configured as a 2-6-0 or 0-6-2 - with one set of carrying wheels swinging - or as a 2-4-2 with both sets of carrying wheels swinging. So a whole lot of options available. The photo below shows the various parts of a single mainframe assembly, though I have already added the necessary components to provide compensation on the driving wheels. Cheers Mike

Thanks Chas. There's probably more pipework on this model than on any other I've ever built, though one of the G5's, which was one which had retained its Westinghouse pump, right up until withdrawal - 67256 - comes a close second. All of this pipework is not provided within the kit, as it is down to the individual builder as to how much detail is added to the model. Strange that these Victorian locomotives, designed with such clean lines, should then be 'adorned' with this mass of 'weaving pipes'!! Regards Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 The Westinghouse pump casting has been slightly modified to suit the F8 and a start has been made on the various pipes to and from this pump. Chas, now you can see what that hole under the globe lubricator was for. Many more pipes still to fit to various parts of the loco, above and below the footplate!! I've also restarted work on the London Road Models N8 using more of Arthur's castings - tank fillers, Ross pop valves, buffers, etc. - and some of the spare etches - smokebox lamp iron, coal door, tank front handrail brackets, etc. - from the various tank locos built over the last eight years. Often, Arthur provides spare/duplicated etched components on the frets, which are assiduously saved for later use. Cheers Mike

Hi Chas, Yes, tis indeed an 'ole'. There is a Westinghouse pump to be attached to the front of the left hand side tank - the one visible in the above photo of the model. Pipes go 'hither and thither' from this pump, one of which goes to the smokebox, hence the hole. The same side of the cab front - the left hand side - has also had a drilling done to accept another pipe from the Westinghouse pump; the one that curves back on itself from the pump. The far side - right hand side - of the cab front was also drilled to accept the vacuum pipe from the smokebox to the cab. Far easier to make these drillings when the cab front is 'in the flat' rather than when it is fitted into the loco superstructure. The photo below shows the arrangement. Regards Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 Well I'm now into 'new territory' with this build as I start the final detailing. Most of this is 'plumbing' with the various pipes, pumps, valves, etc. and there is quite a lot of it. So I won't post a 'step by step' on all of the detailing but I'll post just this one as the final phase of the build is started. I still need to balance the loco, using the front carrying axle, which is compensated and can thus be slightly adjusted for height. Cheers Mike

LONDON ROAD MODELS G5 Pebbles, Below are a couple of photos of the three G5's which I built a couple of years ago. One of the models represents No 67340, which had extended tanks and which was the only one rebuilt in this way. The other two represent a couple of the variations in appearance which members of this class exhibited later in their lives. Some retained their Westinghouse pumps, some had the bunker cage and some had the bunker cage with a hopper fitted. Some were push and pull fitted, etc. Even though this kit is now some thirty years old, it is still very relevant and, with a little extra detailing, makes up into a very convincing model. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 Well, after almost a couple of weeks, though with a few days out, the third build has now reached the point where the second build was aborted. So, from here on in then we should be into 'new territory'! The unfilled hole on the boiler, under the handrail stanchion, is to accommodate the clack valve; the one on the smokebox, directly under the globe lubricator, is to accommodate some of the 'plumbing' associated with the Westinghouse pump, which has yet to be fitted. I'm beginning to feel that I know the F8, quite well! Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 After a few days off, wandering around Richmond (North Yorkshire) and Swaledale, it's back to the model of the F8. The cab internals, attached to the bunker front, have been assembled and fitted So the locker, coal door and slides and sandboxes have all been attached to the front of the bunker as a sub-assembly. Before the cab rear is soldered into place, a chance to check the fit of the cab floor against the various items protruding into the cab. Seems ok so the cab rear can now be fixed. Cheers Mike

David, Here is the best F8 photo we could find illustrating the cab front. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 Anyone who has followed any of the various builds, covered in this thread, will know that doing these test builds involves an awful lot of checking, often with parts or sub-assemblies simply resting in place. So here's another of those checks with the cab front simply resting in its slots and the boiler assembly and roof assembly just resting in place. So if there are any gaps it is simply that nothing has been fitted as yet. What we're seeking to establish, with these set up photographs, is whether (or not) the model captures the essence of the prototype. Does everything seem to be in proportion, are the ratios of height to depth and width about right? Does the model look like the photographs of the real thing On these F8 builds, one or two readers of the thread have commented on various features which they felt were not right. It is those critically objective comments which cause the etches and artwork to be re-examined to check those features and to be re-done if those comments prove to be correct. Anyway, here's another of those set up photos using some of the latest etches and some of the sub-assemblies from the second build, which can be re-used. That extra 1 and a bit mm added to the depth of the cab window cut out has made an enormous difference to the look of the model!! Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 Well, off we go again with the assembly of the superstructure for the F8. The cab window opening has been re-profiled; the distance from the top of the cab window to the roof has been reduced and I think the loco now rides at the correct height though the model is not yet balanced across the two sets of carrying wheels. The front carrying wheels are mounted in compensated horn blocks, which will allow this balancing to be achieved; the rear carrying wheels are simply mounted directly into the carrying truck. Later in this build I will assemble and test the latest version of the chassis which now allows for more options as to how the chassis is configured. So, hopefully, by the end of tomorrow I should have reached the same stage as the photo posted two or three above. Cheers Mike

John, It may be the camera but on one of the photos above; the one showing the cab interior with the cab roof off, the two sides of the cab sheeting look to be out of parallel. The distance between the sides, at the rear of the cab, looks to be greater than that same distance at the front of the cab. On the lining, the instructions printed on the rear of the HMRS sheet, detail the tank and bunker lining to be 5" (1.66 mm in 4mm scale) from the edges of the bunker and tank sides and any cab door openings in the lower part of the cab side sheeting. Regards Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 The next set of etches have duly arrived from Arthur representing a very quick turn around by the etchers. A few dimensioning issues have been corrected on the cab window cut out and on the strip of cab sheeting between the cab window and the cab roof. I normally keep both sides together - as per the photograph - to remove as much of the cusp as possible before separating them. Once separated, then that very narrow strip at the top of the cab window becomes quite vulnerable to deforming through handling Now to check the cab window beading to check that it will still fit the slightly deepened cab window opening. I always shape this beading on its own to achieve as good a fit as possible, prior to any soldering into the cab window opening, rather than trying to force the profile during the soldering operation. Seems to have worked! Cheers Mike

While awaiting the revised set of etches for the F8, I decided to catch up on some 'servicing' of the existing fleet of locos. Nothing very involved, just cleaning the wheels, adjusting and cleaning pick-ups, a touch of oil on the wheel bearings and a touch of silicone grease on the gears, where necessary. Anyway, in a couple of days I did some twelve of the tank locos on Hessle Haven, checking each one by running it up and down the 'up fast line' on one of the layout boards at various speeds. I aim for a slow running capability down to around a scale 2 - 3 mph which most of them will do. Once checked, then I marshalled each loco at one end of that same baseboard, using the down slow and down fast as loco sidings. So a photo of around half of the 'tankies' on the layout - 3 x A6, J71, 2 x J72, J73, 3 x J77, N10 and T1. The J72's are Bachmann conversions with High Level chassis' and one of the A6's and the T1 are scratch builds. Everything else - 2 x A6, J71, J73, 3 x J77, N10 - is built from various of Arthur's kits. From this photographing distance they all look very similar in colour and, they are; they're all black. But varying shades of black and with varying levels of weathering and rusting not really discernable at this distance. Cheers Mike

Mark, Yes, my mistake; hydrofluoric acid not phosphoric which is the really nasty stuff. It is me who needs to remember his O-level Chemistry, though I did pass it. Probably because there were no questions on phosphoric or hydrofluoric acid. Anyway, diluted phosphoric acid does make an excellent flux. Cheers Mike

John, If you do try the phosphoric acid, remember the O-level Chemistry maxim 'Always add smaller amounts of acid to larger amounts of water'; i.e. add one part acid to fifteen parts water. Adding the first one measure of water to an equal measure of acid can/will generate some heat and some noxious fumes and it can 'spit' corrosive liquid! Cheers Mike

Ages ago someone asked me, on here, how I organise and build the pick ups on my loco models. Well there is no one answer to that question because it does depend on the type of loco. I've tried tender pick ups, plunger pick ups mounted inside the mainframes and sprung pick ups located under the mainframes. For tank locos, where some or all of the driving wheels sit under and 'inside' the side tanks, I always use the same basic design of pick ups. Certainly on Arthur's North Eastern Kits and on London Road Models kits of tank locos there is quite a lot of space between the tops of the wheels and the inside of the tanks, which can be utilised. Anyway, I'm now in the process of fitting pick ups to the N10 chassis, built a few weeks ago, so a chance to demonstrate the approach. So on all of the tank locos, the first step is to build plasticard 'mounting blocks' which are superglued to the insides of the mainframes and are thus totally invisible, with the loco superstructure fitted. These are essentially in lieu of the fibre/metal strips used by some builders. These blocks are normally several layers thick and therefore relatively strong and durable. It is essential to keep the width of these blocks less than or equal to the distance over the wheelset to avoid fouling the tank sides. All of the 'metal work' for the pick ups will, eventually, be fixed to these mounting blocks, using superglue or 12 BA screws, which means that all of the soldering has to be done before the pick up assembly can be fixed to its plastic mounting block. The photo below shows the mounting blocks for the pick ups on the rear and middle driving wheels. I left the rear motor shaft on here, to accept a small flywheel if space allowed, which it doesn't! Cheers Mike

John, If you go to the RCTS website and then to their photographic archive, entering LNER to company, steam to type and finally N15 to class, there are a number of photographs of various N15's on there. I didn't look at the full collection of N15 photos (there are some 30 plus photos) but the seven or eight I did look at were mostly taken in BR days. This will allow you to check things such as the radii of the corners of the cab side window opening, mounting and type of lubricators, sand pipe profiles and positions, brake hangar positions, etc. On soldering, a few suggestions :- Wherever possible solder from the inside i.e. cab opening beading, valances, splashers, buffer beams. This makes the soldered joints invisible from any normal viewpoint. Always burnish areas to be soldered, especially on brass; it tarnishes quite quickly, which significantly affects the ability of the solder/flux to bond to the metal. Nickel silver doesn't seem to degrade anywhere near as quickly and thus solders much more easily. Use a good flux. Many years ago my old mate Mick Nicholson suggested I try diluted phosphoric acid, which is what I've used ever since. I bought a large bottle of this from Amazon about five years ago, from which I produce a very diluted solution - normally 15 : 1 water to acid - and then keep this in a screw stoppered plastic bottle. Phosphoric acid is used to etch glass, so even a diluted solution will 'attempt to dissolve' any glass bottle in which it is stored. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 For anyone wondering when this model is likely to be completed, I should say that a few issues still remain to be resolved such that amended artwork has been produced from which new etches for the superstructure are being produced. Thus there will be a third build of the superstructure only, though utilising the boiler/smokebox plus all fittings, the cab roof plus fittings, and existing castings from the second build, represented by the photo above. The chassis, motion, etc.; everything below the footplate as shown above, will also be re-used on the next build. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 More details added, most notably the smokebox door. Now I have to fabricate a smokebox door handle and add the last small etches and more handrails, a few more castings and then do all of the 'plumbing' for the Westinghouse pump, vacuum pipes, etc. Now, perhaps, this is unmistakeably an F8. Cheers Mike

Dave, Many thanks for the kind words. There are many modellers on here, especially in this topic area, whose work is inspirational and it is those modellers who are the encouragement to continue to improve, to refine and to strive for whatever level of perfection is ultimately achievable. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 So now down to all of the fiddly bits which constitute the detailing. The firebox washout plugs have been fitted; the top lamp iron has been fitted and the smokebox/boiler side handrails have been fitted. On these boiler handrails I now always superglue the stanchions into holes in the boiler, rather than solder them. This does give time to adjust the levelling and the handrail distance from the boiler wrapper, before the glue finally sets. All of the additional drillings in the smokebox have now been done, though not yet opened out to their final size to take the globe lubricator castings and various pipes. A quick digital photo to check that the handrail is straight and level - the handrails still have to be cut to their correct lengths - and the whistles are both straight, before continuing and this one taken from footplate level to try and convey an impression of size on what is, after all, just a 4mm/1 ft scale model. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8 The mainframe sections, above the footplate have now been assembled, after pressing out the bolt heads in the etch. These mainframe 'extensions' locate into slots in the footplate and into slots in the bottom of the smokebox sides. I have to confess, that I did remove the tabs which locate into the bottom of the smokebox, just so that I could continue to slide out and remove the smokebox/boiler assembly, which would otherwise have been 'trapped' onto the footplate. The front carrying wheel springs have also been fitted, after cleaning up the castings and checking the spacing of the spring shackles against the etched holes in the footplate, which check out perfectly. There are more drillings which need to be done on the smokebox, namely those for the two globe lubricators, one each side and a further one on the left hand side of the smokebox (looking forward), below the globe lubricator, for some of the Westinghouse pump 'plumbing'. All of these additional drillings are on the centre line of the smokebox So now, perhaps, it does begin to resemble an F8. Quite a bit of detailing still to do, but the basic structure is now all there. It never ceases to amaze at just how clean and uncluttered these Victorian locomotive designs were; just elegantly simple! Cheers Mike