mikemeg

Chas, Almost all of Arthur's kits make use of compensating beams, though I do need to verify the eight coupled locos as to that statement. Certainly on the six coupled locos, the middle and rear driving wheelsets can use this arrangement, with the front driving wheelset being 'pivoted' on a centrally located beam which bears on the front driving axle. The four coupled locos simply use the compensating beams on both driving wheelsets. The vertical movement allowed, at each end of the compensating beam depends on the horn guides and axleboxes used, but probably needs to be no more than 1.0 mm in total, which should be adequate to accommodate the inequalities in most trackwork. All of the kits can, however, be built as rigid chassis' and one piece coupling rod etchings are included for this as an alternative to the articulated coupling rods. Where springing is preferred to the use of compensating beams, then Continuous Springy Beams (CSB's) can be used. For horn guides and axleboxes I only have experience of the High Level products though I know that other suppliers may use slightly different approaches to the provision of the horn guides on 'sliding axleboxes' i.e. Brassmaster, Alan Gibson, David Bradwell etc. Hope this helps. Cheers Mike

I just didn't stipulate how many wheels!! The very slight difference in loco and tender ride heights is due to the absence of corresponding wheels on the other side, which causes the compensating beams to deflect upwards slightly too much. Now to finish the job! Cheers Mike

Chas, Thanks for the posting. I knew something was wrong or missing; the running in trials have, so far, not been very successful!! Seriously, the next photo of this model will have wheels on; honest! Regards Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 Change of plan, with this test build. Having already built two vacuum fitted J21's, I looked for, and found, photos of a non vacuum fitted example - 65070 - taken in the early 1950's. Oddly, this loco, and some others, were allocated to ex-Great Northern sheds - Doncaster and Retford - during the 1950's. Unfortunately all of the photos of this loco are not generally available so cannot be reproduced here. The example chosen - 65070 of 36E, Retford - was not vacuum fitted, had LNER group standard buffing and draw gear and had the single compensated brake pull rod. This loco also sported a later 3038 gallon tender with the oval frame cut outs and three coal rails. So Arthur's 3038 gallon tender kit has been modified to produce the three coal rail version. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 The chassis of this test build is now largely complete, with just the brakes, brake linkage and sand pipes to add. Next stage on the chassis will be priming and initial painting prior to adding the wheels and motion and the the full brake gear. This loco will have the brake pull rods fitted inside of the wheels, as the non vacuum fitted locos had. The body detailing has also moved on with the handrails all fitted and some of the external rodding added. I still have to add the sanding operating rods, various external pipes and the lamp irons. Someone did ask me what handrail knobs I used on these models? I normally used Alan Gibson handrail knobs - medium length for the boiler and short for the smokebox ,cab side and tender handrails. However, on the two B16/'1s which I built, for the boiler and smokebox, I needed handrail knobs shorter than the Alan Gibson medium ones and longer than the short ones, so I turned the shoulder off around thirty of the medium handrail knobs to allow them to sit closer to the boiler. Unlike most North Eastern locomotives, the B16's (and Q7's) had boilers and smokeboxes of the same diameter. While this process is somewhat tedious, the results were worth it. However, when talking to Colin, of Alan Gibson. he asked 'why don't you use the shoulderless versions?' So now, instead of using the standard short or medium handrail knobs, I use the shoulderless versions, cutting them back in length, where necessary, and then using various removable spacers, to achieve the correct distance of the handrail from the boiler, smokebox or side plating. This J21 has the last of the turned down medium Alan Gibson handrail knobs on the boiler and the shortened shoulderless knobs everywhere else. Someone else asked how I build the models so cleanly (their words not mine). As I've said before, I clean the model up as I go along, and especially after every soldering operation, so that a minimum of solder (ideally none) shows. Also, as much of the soldering as possible, on these models, is done from the inside and I try and use as little solder as possible. It's probably also worth mentioning that I do glue many parts onto the models - most white metal and brass castings, handrail knobs, handrails, cab details, pipework, etc. I use Araldite for the large castings, which does allow adjustment as the adhesive is setting, and superglue for the smaller components like handrail knobs. All handrail knobs are fitted with a piece of handrail wire inserted, to ensure that the orientation of the handrail knob is correct. This piece of handrail wire is removed and re-used, once the glue has set. This allows runs of handrail knobs (i.e. on the boiler side) to be progressively fitted as a full length piece of handrail wire is slotted through the ones already fitted and set, checking each new one in turn for the handrail remaining parallel and straight. This does entail always starting the boiler handrail knob fitting from the front of the loco. The cabside handrail knob fitting can be started from either end. It's just a thing of mine that handrails must be as straight and parallel as possible!! Cheers Mike

Thanks Mick and well spotted. Given how many Dairycoates locos I've built, I should know the shed code by now. I really need to fit my locos with appropriate shed plates covering 53A, B and C (Hull Dairycoates, Botanic Gardens and Springhead respectively) with the odd 50C and D (Selby and Harrogate Starbeck) in there as well. Regards Mike

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8 After a few more additions and replacements, the body of the N8 is now almost complete with the chassis now ready for the wheels, motor and gearbox. The front and rear lamp irons still need to be fitted as do the operating rods for the front sandboxes, along with the brake gear and sand pipes on the chassis. Slow progress on this one, as it has been a 'background' project to the test builds of the F8 and J21, though this N8 model has benefitted from some of the 'spare' etched parts and brass and white metal castings, from both of those test builds. I've pretty well now lost count of the number of locos which I've built that are numbered in the 68xxx and 69xxx ranges, as this one will be - 69382 of 53B, Hull Dairycoates shed as at June, 1950. Cheers Mike

To reduce the heating effect, on the motor, it's worth just applying the disk for a few seconds and then allowing the whole thing to cool before re-applying the Dremel back into the cut. I've never had a motor show any adverse signs after this cropping and there's quite a large 'heat sink' surrounding the motor shaft. A few years ago I did have a Mashima overheat very badly, following a gear crunch, such that it continued to run but became so hot that it could not be touched after a few seconds running. Mark, might also have a view on this. Cheers Mike

Mark, Yes so do I (bought one sooner). Mine too came with all sorts of attachments, including a number of slitting disks (around 15 mm diameter) which I have used dozens of times, perhaps even hundreds. I'm still using the original supply of these disks and there are still a few as yet unused. The quality of the product and its packaging was/is excellent. Cheers MIke

You may indeed. I use a Dremel rotary tool which has, as one of its attachments, a screw chuck for holding slitting disks. This will cut through a 1.5 mm or 2.0 mm motor shaft in under ten seconds. The piece which is parted will be extremely hot if picked up immediately as this slitting does generate quite a bit of heat. Look up Dremel on t'internet and you'll see these devices and their various options and functions. Mine is some ten years old, is mains driven (240 volt) and came with various chucks and attachments for polishing, de-burring, slitting, etc. It is a very useful tool in all sorts of ways. Usual disclaimer; I'm just a satisfied customer. Regards Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 One of the problems which I always have with these 0-6-0 tender locos, with daylight under the boiler, is where to drive them. The favourite choice, for ease of setting up and for free running, is the middle axle. But fitting the gearbox and drive train to the middle axle, invisibly, is almost impossible; some large part of it will be visible. However, driving on the rear axle can avoid this 'invasion' of the daylight under the boiler but does require the chassis to be very free running with absolutely no tight spots, such that it will not 'snatch' under operating conditions. All of my 0-6-0 tender locos - J21's, J24 and J25 therefore utilise the same approach, namely driving the rear axle. However, this then introduces another set of issues which must be overcome :- The final drive needs to be articulated such that it will fit and operate under the cab floor. The motor must be installed vertically or near vertically (at best diagonally) and this then restricts the choice of motor to something in the xx20 range i.e. less than or equal to 20 mm length. On a compensated chassis, as this one is, the drive train must operate within the compensating components and must not impede their operation, which then forces the need for the drive train to move with the rear axle as it moves with the compensating beams, even though this movement is relatively small. So clearance on the articulated drive train must allow for this movement. Anyway, using the High Level Roadrunner Compact, with the articulated final drive carriage and with a little re-shaping of the stage 1 motor and gear housing, then the above criteria can be met. The photo shows the orientation of the motor against the body, though the parallax on the photo is a little confusing - the chassis looks a lot longer than the loco body, which, of course, it's not. I still need to crop off the top shaft of the Mashima 1220 and do the final checks but the checking, so far done, seems to pass muster. If micklner reads this posting, you asked the question, a while ago, 'has Arthur included the riveted strips around the splashers on this kit? The photo below shows these strips quite clearly and, hopefully, answers your question. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 While waiting for parts, I've moved the J21 test build forward making a start on the tender and adding details to the loco body. I now have everything needed to complete this build, which will be done over the next week or two. So this is the current state of this build. Cheers Mike

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8 Having assembled the High Level Roadrunner Compact gearbox (60 : 1 ratio) and attached the motor, which is a Mashima 1420 from my 'stock' of Mashimas, then time to make the final checks on the orientation of the articulated carriage of the gearbox, such that the motor does not foul the backhead positioning. If my measurements and calculations are correct, then the motor, with the rear shaft cropped off, should clear the backhead casting. It will; phew!! As mentioned earlier, the slide bars and motion plate, fitted to this chassis, are from Arthur's J21 kit and are the unused EM parts. Arthur always provides triplicated parts for OO, EM and P4 gauges on all parts which span the mainframes i.e. motion plates, frame spacers, brake hanger stretchers, etc. Quite a lot of detail has also been added to the body of the N8 including Arthur's tank filler castings, whistles, safety valves, buffers, etc. The clack valve castings fitted, are from the original kit. Cheers Mike

The olive oil thing was only as a last resort when I looked around for something to use when assembling Arthur's articulated coupling rods. I make very tiny steel pins for the articulated joints on these coupling rods, which must be soldered into one journal but must pass through the other and remain unsoldered. In the absence of any other oil (I'd run out of clock oil and the WD40 can was also empty) I tried olive oil, just dipping the tiny pin into a small amount in an egg cup. Prior to soldering the end of the pin, I wiped away the oil on the protruding part of the pin, with a cotton bud, before applying flux. The solder adhered where it was needed and did not adhere where not needed. Flushed with that success, I tried the stuff as a 'mask' to prevent primer from settling on certain areas, which it does very well. Once the primer is dry then a quick wipe with a cotton bud should remove the oil and the paint settled on it and restore the surface to a non-greasy state. Olive oil is an organic product but isn't crude oil also an organic product, albeit organisms which lived many millions of years ago? The photo below shows where these pins are, though this photo was taken during the B16/1 build. Both the coupling rods and the crosshead small ends have these tiny pins and hence, this requirement. Cheers Mike

The short answer as to 'why olive oil' is that I have an egg cup full of this stuff, near the workbench. Prior experience has shown that it makes an excellent solder inhibitor and paint inhibitor, as it will stand fairly high temperatures without boiling away and the smell is quite pleasant when it gets hot! I have also used this stuff as a lubricant for wheel bearings, in the absence of clock oil, which is the more normal lubricant. I normally apply the olive oil with the end of cocktail stick, which prevents it from straying onto areas where solder or paint does need to flow. That's the current (tempted to spell this word with an 'a' not the 'e') extent of the 'culinary approach' to model locomotive building. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 And the j21 chassis is now progressing along with the N8 chassis. Next stage on this one is to fit the compensating beams and pivot and the 'furniture' to the mainframes - brake hangar brackets, guard irons, etc. - as well as the inside slide bars and simplified motion details, etc. Cheers Mike

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8 The heavily modified chassis for the N8 is now approaching completion. The one piece mainframes, with the rear section pinched in by .030" (0.75mm) can be seen. The brake hangar brackets have been attached as have the front and rear guard irons. The cylinder rear plate and the motion plate have come from Arthur's J21 kit and are the EM components (the J21 test build is to P4 gauge so these components were spare) modified to fit inside this chassis. I still have to fit slide bars and some semblance of the inside motion for this model, which will be done before the chassis is finally wheeled and powered. Next stage is to apply a coat of weathered black to the chassis with some weathering of the mainframes, inside and out. This model will be fitted with the later compensated centrally mounted brake pull rod, again using unused parts from Arthur's J21 kit as the J21 build will utilise the outside pull rods. Fortunate, indeed, that the wheelbase and spacing of the N8 are identical to the J21, allowing unused parts from the J21 kit to be used on this model. The slides on the High Level axle guides were coated with olive oil, prior to priming this chassis, which prevents the whole lot from gluing up solid, so that everything still slides easily on the compensated chassis. The CSB tabs, on the centre axle are simply there as retainers to stop the compensating beam ends from sliding off the much narrower spacesaver axle boxes, which were used on the centre driving axle, where the gearbox will be fitted. Now to get back to the J21 as I now have the gearbox. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 After a very short wait (delivered within a few days) from High Level Models, I now have the requisite items to push on with the J21 and the N8. So having fitted the High Level horn guides and axle boxes to the J21 mainframes and then assembling and fitting the mainframe driving wheel springs, the two mainframes are located onto the chassis jig, with one of the coupling rods fitted as a check to ensure that everything lines up on wheel spacing. All seems ok so the assembly of the chassis can now proceed. The chassis jig has just had a good 'clean up' to try and remove the effects of seven or eight years of being 'attacked' by soldering flux and other corrosive fluids! Cheers Mike

Richard, You're welcome. I'll try and locate a photo of the pick up arrangements on these two models. Basically, I built two plasticard platforms, one either side, projecting between the tops of the driving wheels and over the tops of the mainframes. The pick ups, located at the top of the driving wheels (and thus hidden from view) were attached to brass strips, which were superglued to these plasticard platforms. This solution isn't ideal, as it relies on only two wheels each side, so I still need to arrange a pick up to the front (or ideally both) sets of bogie wheels to get a better reliability on electrical pick up. Either that or some form of tender pick up to achieve the required distribution of pick ups!! Regards Mike

Hi Richard, In answer to your questions :- Yes, I will be using the LRM radial truck under the N8. I have reworked the mainframes on this kit, as I really didn't like (and didn't need) the entire rear section to be articulated. So each mainframe now extends from one buffer beam to the other, with the rear portion - from the cab footsteps rearwards - 'pinched in' by around .030" (0.75 mm) on each side, to allow additional sideways deflection on the carrying axle. As described above, there are many other changes/additions to this kit mostly to take advantage of better castings and etchings introduced since this kit was originally developed. This N8 model is very much a 'background project' in between the test builds of the F8 and J21, hence the relatively slow progress. On both of the D20's which I built, I used the front set of driving wheels to mount the gearbox, with the motor facing to the rear. The motor I used was the Mashima 1420 which, with the rear shaft cropped off, would allow the motor not to interfere with the backhead fitting. I used the same three stage High Level gearboxes, on both models. These were chosen so that the motor would sit higher and could therefore be mounted horizontally and so that it would sit above the mainframes. There is a lot of room in the firebox/boiler and the large splashers do effectively hide the gearbox/motor so the limiting factor is the length from the front driving axle to the backhead. I would have preferred to use the Mashima 1424, which would have provided more power, but with the 54 : 1 gearing there is enough tractive effort to haul a reasonably sized train. By the time of my models - mid 1950 - the D20's were long since relegated to secondary passenger services, often with only four or five bogie coaches, so the models handle those loads relatively easily. During the summers of the early/mid 1950's, these locos were also often used to pilot larger locomotives on heavy excursion trains, especially to the Yorkshire seaside resorts. I even have a few photos of these locos on pick up goods, during their British Railways days! I still have all of the photos taken during the two D20 builds, so if these can be of any further help, just ask. The oil pots, on the slide bars, are not in the kit; these were made by me and added, as were the crossheads and connecting rods. The bolts on the chassis, between the two sets of bogie wheels, are pieces of 0.5 mm wire soldered into drilled holes and then trimmed off to the same height. Hope this helps. Regards MIke

Richard, The J21 is also in need of a gearbox, again from High Level Models, which has been ordered along with a gearbox for the N8. This build has also been a little stalled awaiting horn guides and axle boxes from High Level. The supply problems which High Level experienced, last year, now seem to have been resolved so both the J21 and the N8 should be progressed as soon as this order arrives. On motors, I am still using up the stock of Mashima's which I bought some time ago, when I learned of their intention to stop manufacture of these motors. The J21 will have a 1220 with a High Level Roadrunner Compact (60 : 1 ratio); the N8 will have a Mashima 1420 with High Level Roadrunner Compact (60 : 1). In the meantime I have done more work on the superstructure of the N8, adding some details to the model which are not in the kit - overhead cab locker on bunker bulkhead, coal door and slides, etc. I've also used some of Arthur's castings and small etchings on this model - Ross pop safety valves, tank fillers, smokebox door, tank handrail brackets, rear lamp iron, footstep rivetted fillets, etc. Arthur often provides 'spares' for very small parts on his etches, which I cut out and save for use on other models. Cheers Mike

Richard, The J21 is now advancing, with the chassis under construction. I'll post some photos once I have the necessary horn guides and blocks from High Level Models. While I wait for those parts, perhaps time for another one or two of those black and white and colour photos. No self respecting devotee of the LNER and BR (E), (NE) and (Scottish) Regions would surely deny that one of the high points of LNER locomotive design was Gresley's A4 class. So, a couple of photos of these locos from the 1950's/early 60's. Again, these photos courtesy of Mick Nicholson. They were and those that survive, still are, iconic. Beautiful machines!! Cheers Mike

Richard, On both of the D20's, built from Arthur's kits, I didn't fit any sideways movement control. That said, the bogie pivots using the slot provided in the kit, which will allow some sideways movement of the bogie on its pivot. I actually fitted a 1/4" diameter x .010" nickel silver washer to the bottom of the front chassis spacer which fits over the pivot screw and bears onto the top of the bogie stretcher. This to spread the friction between the bogie top and the underside of the chassis and also to keep the bogie level, as it deflects on curves. The absence of bogie wheel cut outs, in the mainframes, even with the narrowing of the mainframe separation at the front end, does constrain the amount of sideways movement which can be accommodated, before the bogie wheels touch the mainframes, so I was quite careful how much sideways movement I allowed with the slotted pivot. On High Level Horn Blocks, both standard width and space saver, I have often had to gently file the axle box to allow free sliding within the horn guides. For 1/8th axles, which I always use (usually Alan Gibson), then I have had to run the 1/8th inch reamer around in every axle box I have fitted until the axle revolves quite freely. As my 1/8th inch reamer is slightly tapered, then this has to be done from both sides of the axle box. I would add that this needs to be done very gently and slowly; usually three or four slow rotations of the reamer will suffice, checking the axle fit as this operation is done. Cheers Mike

Chas, Many thanks for the posting above. I'm happy for folk to use this thread to show their work, for my original purpose, in starting this thread, was to show some of my own work and, where appropriate, give some ideas as to how some of the work was actually done. As I've remarked, a few times in the thread, I have been and am fortunate to benefit from Mick Nicholson's growing photographic collection and many of these are worthy of further display and discussion. These photos are a record of a time and a world which has passed, yet a world which many of us seek to reproduce in miniature with our models. I've posted photos of aircraft and aircraft models, some of my paintings, and photographs from Mick's collection as well as the locomotive models and if folk enjoy the eclectic nature of the thread and post their own particular favourites, on or off topic, then it all adds to the thread. May I wish all, who do read the thread, a very happy, prosperous and, above all, safe New Year. Cheers Mike

Mick, There are much wider and many more diversions on this thread and I welcome them. Merely trotting out photos and descriptions of model loco building will just make it b----y boring! One proviso though; don't mention the current Ashes series after this mention. It's just too distressing!! Regards Mike