mikemeg

I'm not quite sure why this discussion around the virtues (or not) of white metal kits should have taken place on this thread, which has never covered the building of any white metal kit by the thread author (me), but as it has then I'll add my 'two pennorth'. I should add that I do welcome this discussion, even if I haven't prompted it! My own experience of white metal kits is two Little Engines offerings, from which I used some of the boiler castings - chimney & dome - and then scratch built the models, chopping up the rest of the white metal parts for ballasting the scratch built models, and a DJH B16/1 from which I used absolutely nothing and chopped it all up, including the chimney and dome, to be used as adhesive weight in etched brass/nickel silver models. The acquisition and subsequent disposal of this B16/1 'kit' led to my offering to test build and complete the development of the LRM B16/1 etched kit. So three white metal kits in all, each of which was fairly abysmal as a scale model, for all sorts of reasons. While I can understand people who have accumulated these kits, over the years, seeking to make use of them, I do find it difficult to understand why folk would now choose a white metal offering when an etched kit, for the same prototype, is available. And, I guess, that's the extent of my 'two pennorth' . Cheers Mike

Mick, Re your intention to build a B16, will this be a B16/1 and, if so, which kit might you use? Regards Mike

Many thanks Mick; you've done a great job on that. So for completeness, here's the photo of the first test build of the J21. This one built as a saturated loco, still sporting its Westinghouse pump though fitted for vacuum braking. Since these photos were taken, new tenders have been built for both of these models, both with only two coal rails. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 At this point, time to check that the motor and gearbox will actually fit into the loco body. I opted to drive this model on the rear set of driving wheels, using a Mashima 1020 motor with a High Level Roadrunner Compact Plus gearbox. OK I know that Mashima motors are no longer available but the photo might offer some help in selecting and then locating suitable gearbox/motor combinations. The advantage of the Roadrunner Compact Plus is that, with its articulated section, it will fit under the cab floor allowing the motor to stand inside the firebox. The chassis used in this photograph, is one built for a previous test build of this kit (in fact two previous test builds were done). However, as part of this current test build a third chassis will be built from the latest etches. Anyway, I've included a photo of the second test build (the first test build was a saturated version), which did have a couple of issues which have been rectified on the latest etches. This build does incorporate some scratch building with the pipework and the LNER whistle operating mechanism but at least the photo gives some impression of what this latest test build is aiming for! Finally, can I wish the readers of this thread the very best of season's greetings for Christmas. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 The first of the cab splashers has now been assembled, from its three pieces, and then fitted. This assembly also provides the cab shelf situated under the cab side windows. All that's missing is a white metal or brass casting of the billy can full of tea. Cheers Mike

Chas, A while ago I had exactly the same issue with boiler bands - how to keep them straight. The boiler wrapper can be marked up, in the flat, with witness marks but while these will show any deviation from straight, they don't necessarily help with achieving that straightness. So the idea occurred, a while ago, to use paper collars as a guide. Two layers, tightly wound and then the two layers glued at the end, provide enough rigidity to guide the fitting of the band and they are easily removed leaving no trace. Mind you they don't much like being 'dowsed' in flux and they don't react well, for very long, to a very hot soldering iron!! Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 To fit the boiler bands to the configuration of the later LNER designed boilers, fitted to these locos later in their lives - which boilers also had the dome fitted 1' 9" (7 mm) to the rear of the original positioning on the boilers as built - paper collars are made to act as guides when soldering on the boiler bands. These collars are just rolled twice around the boiler, pulled tight, and then stuck at the very end, one layer to another but not to the boiler wrapper itself. The collars are disposable as they can be discarded once the boiler band is fitted. Cheers Mike

Before I prime the NER Class A / LNER F8, here's another of those 'family photos'; this one inspired - perhaps prompted rather than inspired - by one of Agatha Christie's famous mysteries (I'll leave the reader to establish which one). So, NER classes A, B and C in various states of completion, though there is a plan and priority to this seemingly chaotic state of affairs. Any literary, logical or physical connection between the LNER classifications, for these classes, eludes me - F8, N8, J21!! Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 After an unplanned stay in 'Much Sniffling', it's now back to the J21. Both smokeboxes have been assembled and checked against the boiler and the front splashers. Smokebox formers and spacers are included for the longer superheated smokebox and the shorter saturated smokebox. Outer smokebox wrapper etches are included for both flush riveted and snap head rivetted smokebox wrappers for both types of smokebox i.e. four outer wrapper options. I fitted the wrappers with visible snap head rivets on both assemblies. Probably worth mentioning that the embossed rivetted wrappers were both rolled in the boiler roller, wrapped, both sides, in three layers of paper to preserve the etched riveting when passing through the roller. The chimney and dome are not yet fixed, so simply resting on top of the boiler, as is the boiler which is also just resting on the footplate. Now for the final boiler detailing. Cheers Mike

Chas, I seem to remember that Willesden shed (1A) was literally a stone's throw from Old Oak Common, so I 'visited' that shed on the same afternoon. I can vividly remember looking down into Willesden's shed yard from a road bridge, before descending some steps into the shed proper. Later, that week, I would visit 14A and 14B on the same afternoon and then, the following Sunday, Nine Elms, Stewarts Lane, Bricklayers Arms and Hither Green sheds. Those Sunday shed bashes were, of course, trespassing but we very rarely saw the shed foremen so, most times, we got around the shed without being apprehended. Some sheds, because of the position of the shed foreman's office, were very difficult to 'bunk' around - Manchester Gorton, Leeds Copley Hill and Ardsley were some that repeatedly resisted our attempts to 'bunk' around them. Needless to say, we were never intent on doing anything but take the numbers, and more latterly some photographs, of the locos on shed but these places could be dangerous to the unwary - inspection pits and ash pits full of hot ash, oil and water everywhere and chunks of locomotive dismantled for attention as well as locomotives moving around. Great days though and we were lucky to have lived and to have seen them. Regards Mike

Thanks Chas, That's it for the shed shots, for now. Over the years I've collected quite a few of these photos showing the interior of loco sheds. For me, the most vivid memory of one of these places (and I 'visited' more than half of the loco sheds extant in 1960; some many times) would have to be my first visit (aka bunk) to Old Oak Common, on a warm sunny Sunday in the summer of 1961. My first acquaintance with Kings, Castles, Halls, Granges and representatives of most of the other ex GWR loco classes then in service. A day like that lives in the memory for a lifetime!! Cheers Mike

One final photo of the inside of the roundhouse shed at Hull Dairycoates. This building, up to 1955, housed six turntables within a single building. There was also a four road straight shed and various other buildings on the same site. Cheers Mike

Or, perhaps, this one. I don't know where this is, though it's obviously a North Eastern shed; the smoke hoods are the North Eastern design. It could be Hull Botanic Gardens, though there are other more likely contenders for the photo's location, particularly as there are J27 and Q6 freight locos in the shed. Hull Botanic Gardens was only ever a passenger locomotive shed. Again, this photo just 'tells it as it was' inside one of these places. Both this photo and the one above are courtesy Mick Nicholson. Cheers Mike

Yes! I guess like many of my generation, who loved the railways, an abiding memory of the age of steam would be these great sheds with their soot and grime; especially on a Sunday. On a sunny day, the shafts of sunlight coming through any broken or missing panes of glass, would light the places with almost solid beams of light, piercing the stygian gloom and illuminating some part of a locomotive, creating a myriad patches of light and shade; or reflecting off oil filled puddles of water creating prismatic ripples of colour which shone up from the floor. On a Sunday, almost silent were these places, save for the sound of hissing of steam, the faintly audible dripping of water and the occasional flutter of a pigeon disturbed in its lofty roost. Magical places!! Happy days!! Cheers Mike

Yes, it is a Y1 0-4-0 Tank. At the time of the above photograph, Hull Dairycoates had four Y1's - 68137/39/40/41. So 8139 is the one with the chalked on number. Cheers Mike

Reverting to the topic area (I knew we'd get back, eventually) I have re-started work in the N8, while also doing the J21. So a reminder of what one of these locos looked like, way back in the early 1950's. This photo, which is the prototype loco for the model, was taken in one of the darker recesses of Hull Dairycoates shed around one of the six turntables under cover. What a place this must have been, on a Sunday in the early 1950's!! Cheers Mike

Keith, Many thanks for the kind words. I really don't mind folk going off topic on the thread; I do it frequently. As must be obvious, I do enjoy building the locos, though in my retirement, I enjoy building all sorts of things. I spent my working life in computing, later Information Technology, so largely office bound. The contrast, in now 'using my hands' to do things and make things, is hugely enjoyable and rewarding. Once again, many thanks. Regards Mike

No need to go away. These diversions make the thread more interesting. Like you (I'm assuming) I've had a lifelong interest in aircraft and aviation. In technology terms, an odd companion to the steam locomotive, I grant you but, at their design best, each is equally impressive as pieces of beautiful engineering. Regards Mike

Yes, I photographed one of these aircraft, stationary, at the Royal International Air Tattoo, at Fairford in 2019. Had to go a very long way back to get the whole thing into frame. As you say, this must be some kind of record for longevity for any piece of military hardware, though the Tu 95 'Bear' might also come close. Cheers Mike

Thanks to the two contributors above. These old photographs often have no place or date attribution, so the history of the locomotive can give some indication of probable place and time. By the time of its withdrawal - Feb 1937 - this loco must have been around fifty years old. They lasted well, these old North Eastern locos. Some of the G5's, J71's, J72's, J77's, etc. must have seen sixty plus years of service. That said, some of the surviving English Electric Type 3's (originally D6700 - D6999) must also now be approaching or even have reached sixty years of service. Strange how, as kids, we almost resented the intrusion of these main line diesels as they replaced the steam locos which we loved. Now these same diesel locos are, themselves, historically important machines, much admired, much photographed and much missed. Cheers Mike

I guess regular readers of this thread will have seen some of the photographs, from Mick Nicholson's growing collection, posted on here. I continue to receive copies of some of Mick's photographic acquisitions which are assiduously filed away on my PC. Given the recent postings on the test building of Arthur's North Eastern Class A/LNER F8, then this photo, again from Mick's collection, is particularly applicable as it shows an F8 on a train. The date of the photo isn't known but it is certainly 1923 or later as the locomotive carries LNER markings. The location is given as Croft Spa and just look how tidy the permanent way and the ballast shoulder is!! Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 With the addition of the two layers of smokebox wrapper - the snap headed rivet version as the top layer - then a quick check to ensure that everything lines up and sits square. As yet, nothing is fixed, so if it fits in this state then it should all fit when soldered together. So the major loco superstructure is now largely complete, though still a great deal of detail to add. Cheers Mike

John, I'm not sure, though Arthur might like to comment. I always receive the test etches flat but I know that the boilers in the production kits are often pre-rolled. Regards Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 After the boiler is rolled and soldered up, then the firebox sides need to be profiled. It is difficult to offer any hints or tips for this other than to take this process very slowly and check the firebox against the footplate/cab assembly constantly. I normally 'tease' the bottom of the firebox sides straight using a steel rule. Once the bottom of the firebox sides are sufficiently straight then the transition curves - to bring the straightened bottoms of the firebox sides back to vertical - can be added using an appropriate former - I use a 3/8" diameter piece of brass rod - for this operation. The final check on the firebox profile is the embossed ring on the cab front. If the rear of the firebox follows the profile of this ring and if the bottom of the firebox sides align with the small vertical lugs on the footplate, then everything is about right. At this stage the smokebox and boiler are simply screwed together, though nothing is finally fixed as the smokebox still needs its wrappers adding and there is a lot of detail to be added to the boiler wrapper. Cheers Mike

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21 The internal structure of the smokebox - the longer, superheated variety - has been assembled and soldered up. The boiler barrel has also been rolled and seam soldered, after which the circular nickel silver former has had an 8 BA nut attached to it and then the former is soldered into the front of the boiler wrapper recessed around 1.5 mm from the front end with the nut facing into the boiler . This will allow an 8 BA cheese headed screw to be used to pull the smokebox rear and boiler front together, once the half round brass ring is fitted to the end of the boiler wrapper. I still have to 'unroll' the bottom of the firebox and then adjust the two firebox sides to the correct profile. Cheers Mike