Scratch building (the way I do it)

[ian@stenochs]

Hi Pete,

I always use 188 too. I have a reel of 145 on the bench but hardly ever use it as I too find it does not flow for me.

Ian.

[Jon Fitness]

Hi Pete,

I always use 188 too. I have a reel of 145 on the bench but hardly ever use it as I too find it does not flow for me.

Ian.

145; I use it for overlays or little details when I tin things first and sweat them on with an RSU. Also use it for fitting whitemetal castings too.

JF

[micknich2003]

Another great source of inspiration are the two articles wrote by the late Ron Warbouys in the now defunct Model Railway News c1964, building a "Southern Class Z 0-8-0T, and an ex LSWRly T9 4-4-0. Both articles, are well worth finding, and reading.

[N15class]

On my G6 thread I was asked how I made my tapered handrails.

 

It is just a modified method I was taught at college for making tapered pins used to hold clocks.

 

I have on the other end sawing block two grooves These are made with the corner of a file. Deeper at the edge tapering to nothing.

 

 

I use my mini drill but you can use a pin vice and do it by hand. You lay the brass rod in the bottom of the groove,

 

 

 

 

 

If using the mini drill make sure the wire is in the groove and preferably with the file lightly resting  on top. If the wire is not supported it may well bend over in the chuck. This can take skin and flesh off very quickly.  Once the drill is running just gently run the file back and forth. Because the groove is at an angle holding the file flat will taper the wire.

 

If using a pin vice the way to do it is. As you push the file away on it's cutting stroke, rotate the pin vice so the top comes towards you. When drawing the file back towards you rotate the vice the opposite way. It may tack a couple of goes to get the motion right but it is quite easy and effective. Do not push down heavily on the file or it is hard to rotate the pin vice or worse you bend the wire.

 

 

 

 

My mini drill is long enough for me to do a pair of low cab handrails back to back.

 

 

 

 

A very simple exercise that actually makes a big visual difference to the handrails.

Edited July 24, 2015 by N15class

[DLT]

Brilliant, I will give that a try next time.

Thanks very much,

Dave.

[N15class]

This is the way I made the coal rails for my G6. They took a little working out as most photos are front 3/4 views, and a lot have filled in rails. I did managed to find out they had 3 supports at the back. I made these from 0.25mm (0.010") nickel silver as it is less likely to bend and damage.

 

The first job is to cut the three rails and an extra one for the rear supports. These where cut with the squarker and ruler to 1.5mm which after cleaning up came out looking about size.

 

The top one is tinned ready for use as the supports.

 

 

The central support was first on. The spacings happen to be a steel rule thickness apart.

 

 

 

The outer supports were next and then it was carefully folded. It was a little trick because the bottom rail has to attach to the curved side sheet. Being nickle silver you can straighten it and do it again. Not too many times though.

 

 

 

Here they are in place. I did need to adjust one side as it pushed the rear out of line. I was easy to refold 0.5mm shorter.

 

 

Until the next time happy model making.

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

This is the way I made the coal rails for my G6. They took a little working out as most photos are front 3/4 views, and a lot have filled in rails. I did managed to find out they had 3 supports at the back. I made these from 0.25mm (0.010") nickel silver as it is less likely to bend and damage.

 

The first job is to cut the three rails and an extra one for the rear supports. These where cut with the squarker and ruler to 1.5mm which after cleaning up came out looking about size.

 

The top one is tinned ready for use as the supports.

 

d.jpg

 

The central support was first on. The spacings happen to be a steel rule thickness apart.

 

e.jpg

 

 

The outer supports were next and then it was carefully folded. It was a little trick because the bottom rail has to attach to the curved side sheet. Being nickle silver you can straighten it and do it again. Not too many times though.

 

f.jpg

g.jpg

 

 

Here they are in place. I did need to adjust one side as it pushed the rear out of line. I was easy to refold 0.5mm shorter.

 

a.jpg

 

Until the next time happy model making.

Nice work. Do you have to adjust the RSU voltage right down for such small stuff?. How easy/difficult was it to fasten the assembly to the loco without it all unsoldering?

As always, thanks for taking the time to show us and sorry about all the questions!

Cheers

JF

[N15class]

Nice work. Do you have to adjust the RSU voltage right down for such small stuff?. How easy/difficult was it to fasten the assembly to the loco without it all unsoldering?

As always, thanks for taking the time to show us and sorry about all the questions!

Cheers

JF

Thanks Jon

 

My RSU is a home made jobby in a wooden box, it has six settings using a two way switch and 33 sockets. I tend to use the high setting. I do turn it down for handrail knobs etc, thinks with a bulk and slim joining parts.  The coal rail was done on high, with a short tap on the foot pedal. You have to make sure you do not arrive or remove the probe with your foot on the pedal, or it is like using a spark eroding file, and holes appear everywhere. Also the size of the point on the probe makes a difference. A more rounded tip does less damage than a sharp point.

 

Never worry about asking questions it is a great way of making less c@ck ups.

[N15class]

I detailed the cab roof yesterday. Which was I showed you how I cut and formed earlier. I used 1mm angle rather than my usual narrow strips of sheet. I found I could curve them in the rollers, if I pushed the bottom two to one end and then pulled the top one to the other it gave just enough to have one flange hanging over the end. I used an old stanley blade to stop the angle dropping of the end. If I had a lathe here I would put a slot in the rollers to take the flange.

 

Here is the first curved angle.

 

 

After tinning it was added to the roof,

 

 

 

After doing the front and back the sides were cut and filed. The flange at both ends needs removing so the upright parts can meet at the corners. I had no tee section for the centre one so used a piece of angle again the ends need filing to fit.

 

 

 

To make the other flange for the centre I cut a narrow slice of 0.010" nickel silver. then soldered it to the other side.

 

 

To the inside I added to short bits of angle at the front to hold the roof in the right position, and a spring clip to the rear that clips over a 0,7mm bit of wire soldered to the back sheet inside the locker.

 

 

Here it is in place, it need a little bit of tweaking as it distorted slightly whilst soldering. even after checking and adjusting after each bit was added.

 

 

 

The loco steps are next on the bench.

[ian@stenochs]

Hi,

 

If you are curving angle for the roof it helps to solder two pieces flange to flange to make a tee. When bending this curbs the tendency of a single piece to curl over. It also has the advantage of making both pieces exactly the same. It is quite easy to curve them over a large cylinder by hand. However if you are lucky enough to having a rolling mill it is by far the easiest way.

 

The angle soldered back to back method works well if you need two handed pieces. I use it to form the angle you often find between the boiler and splasher tops on some 4-4-0s.

 

Ian

[N15class]

This is how I did the steps for the G6

 

I laminated to bits of 0.5mm nickel silver, hopefully this will help stop them getting damaged. I glued the front and rear step drawings. Then they were cut out with piercing saw. Having cut them out and tidied them up with the file. I found they are both the same so could of done all four together. 

 

 

 

The treads are from 0.25mm nickel silver again two sheets were laminated and marked out. The top and bottom steps not only are different length they are also different widths. I also made them 1mm over the width of where they fit, this allows for a sort turn up at each end.

 

 

 

The back of the treads were then folded up this 1mm high edge was then tinned.

 

 

 

The steps were soldered centrally onto the back. The up stand sticking out each side was filed off, this then meant the tread could be folded up. but not to a right angle these only need about 30 degrees.

 

 

 

The top of the step hanging plate back has been left long so that I can adjust when I have finally decided how I am going to mount them onto either the frames or the body. I am hoping for the frames as you can then fit the support that stops them being bent in or out.

[N15class]

I decided that it was time to actually get the springs sorted out. I could of bought the castings from Laurie but I wanted to buy as few parts as needed to finish the loco.

 

I think it all comes down to why scratch build rather than buy kits or RTR. I scratch build for a few reasons, one, the most important is I really enjoy it. Two, I like the challenge, and the fact that no one will have a model the same as mine even if there is a kit for it. Three I would rather spend what money I have for my models on three scratch built locos than one state of the art kit. I am not saying I would not build one if the opportunity arose. All in all more models and entertainment per pound spent. I am interested in the G6's final cost I will work it out at the end.

 

But back to the springs. I cut out six sets of hangers these were cut from 010" nickel silver soldered together. I cut the as pairs with a small joining strip between them, you will see the part that the spring attaches to is over long. This is so they can wrap around the wire that will be used for mounting the spring on.

 

 

I have some whitemetal springs from some other kit or Ebay. These where adjusted to fit buy cutting the hangers etc off. The off cuts were added to the pot which was melted down and cast into ingots to go in the side tanks to get some weight in front of the compensation pivot for the rear two axles. I do not want it to do a wheelie every time it tries to pull a train.

The mounts are made up by using 1mm wire soldered at an angle with a 12BA nut underneath. the spring was drilled and mounted on the top.

 

 

The units were then fixed to the compensation beams, in hindsight I should of made the beams long enough to take both ends. We live and learn. The way they are is quite robust but longer beams would be better engineering. I am in the process now of reassembling the frames to check they still run properly.

 

 

 

 

Not sure what will be next. But jobs seem to be getting on the short side on the G6. May have to look elsewhere for inspiration.

 

 

 

[Barnaby]

Some lovely work going on here Peter, it's all looking very good.   Definitely something to be proud of.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Barnaby

[N15class]

Some lovely work going on here Peter, it's all looking very good.   Definitely something to be proud of.

Thanks. I will be back at the bench on Monday after a two month break. Just hope I remember how to do things.

 

I have a few projects up my sleeve for when the G6 is done.

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Peter, Nice to have met you and your good lady at Guildex. I hope you both enjoyed your visit. I also find it strange getting back to the w/b after an extended break but it all soon comes back to you.

I am looking forward to your continuing scratch build.

Kind regards

Sandy

[N15class]

It was also a pleasure meeting you. It is nice to get to see some lovely models and nice people. Yes we did enjoy Guildex managed to get some bits for the next locos to be done. I also managed to get to Taunton show to see Dock Green and meet Chaz. A very inspirational layout, which along with Tomanyspams grain store he is building seen at Guildex, has given me a kick up the butt to get on with mine.

[bigbadbadge]

Wow, what a fantastic thread, thanks for sharing some very useful info.  I have only recently started building kits but hope one day to be able to do more bits myself, although one step at a time.

 

Thanks and all the best

 

Chris

[N15class]

Wow, what a fantastic thread, thanks for sharing some very useful info.  I have only recently started building kits but hope one day to be able to do more bits myself, although one step at a time.

 

Thanks and all the best

 

Chris

Thanks

It is the way we all started, one bit at a time. I still look to other peoples work for inspiration and techneque.

Edited November 1, 2015 by N15class

[N15class]

I was doing some fittings on the G6 and needed some copper wire for pipe work. If like me you collect offcuts of electrical cable none are ever straight.

 

This is my very simple method of straightening them.

 

Here is a before and after picture and hopefully the video explains how simple and quick it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this is of help I will start posting some more now I am back at the bench

 

[Barnaby]

Great tip Peter.

I normally try to straighten copper wire by just pulling it taught with one end held in a vice.  Often it pings out allowing knuckle damage to take place, ouch!

I shall be using your tip as my preferred option in future.

K.I.S.S

 

Best

[N15class]

Great tip Peter.

I normally try to straighten copper wire by just pulling it taught with one end held in a vice.  Often it pings out allowing knuckle damage to take place, ouch!

I shall be using your tip as my preferred option in future.

K.I.S.S

 

Best

Thanks

Its strange you do these things without thinking. I am always surprised how well my tips or ideas are recieved. The knuckle rapping is why I do not like using that method.

[jrg1]

This is a great read-I have only just discovered it.  Regarding the copper tip. it can be annealed by clamping one end in a vice, pulling tight, and running a candle along the length.

I noticed at the start of the thread that you form grooves for bending with a file-I use an OLFA P45 carpet cutter-it scores a groove quickly and accurately.

[N15class]

This is a great read-I have only just discovered it.  Regarding the copper tip. it can be annealed by clamping one end in a vice, pulling tight, and running a candle along the length.

I noticed at the start of the thread that you form grooves for bending with a file-I use an OLFA P45 carpet cutter-it scores a groove quickly and accurately.

Thanks

 

I use a small ofla cutter then finish off with a file. That's a good idea I will get some Stanley ones. I cant get  them here so will order for the next bulk delivery.

[N15class]

This is not really scratch building more kit adaption. I am in the process of compensating a partly built 4-4-0. I started with the bogie.

 

First off I put an axle through the existing bearings and made a bridge to hang a large diameter bar for the axle to run on. Doing it this way means there is no worries about ride height. You can use just one bar length ways but on this there was nowhere handy to hang it on.

 

 

 

Next I removed the bearings and as much solder from the frames as I could. I then marked up the frames so I could elongate the holes without making them any larger fore and aft.

 

 

 

 

From the scrap box I got two pieces that had been cut out from a set of frames that had horn blocks fitted. These were squared up and the hole reamed out to fit. I could of maide them from scratch but hey I have loads of other things to do as well.

 

 

 

I pushed the bearing back in it's hole making sure it was free to move up and down. On the inside I slipped a piece of oiled paper over the bearing and slipped the square washer I made over this and soldered it to the bearing. The paper once removed gives working clearance and aids not soldering it all up solid. Do not dwell with the iron or it will all solder up too. I have done it once or twice.

 

 

I then added a short length of square bar to the inside behind the frames against the square washer as a guide. Again do not hang around with the iron as it will all gum up. Here the RSU or a large iron are best. The smaller ones you have to wait longer for the solder to flow, which means every part is getting close to the magic point.

 

 

Here we now have a compensated bogie that will now be fitted with a fixed pin to take a 1/3 of the weight of the loco.

 

 

[Sandy Harper]

Peter, 0BA brass washers with a flat filed on one side can be used to the same effect, if a 'spare etch ' is not found in the spares box.

 

Regards

Sandy