Lacathedrale

Ah understood, my search for legitimacy fails! On the bright side I have two books on Victorian Railway photographs, one on Signalling and that Ahrons book to complete so I think I'm sown up for a while with regard to material. Thank you all for your kind help and assistance.

Reading Ahron's volume five has given some interesting information: the SER used open thirds from the 1850's way up until the 1890's on branch traffic in North Kent, they would happily run tender first until tank engines started appearing (primarily for shuttling between Charing Cross and Cannon Street). Singles were used everywhere for expresses even up to the SECR merger. He certainly has a way with words.

There does seem to be a regular intervals of dips in the ballast...

Thank you for the help - Dan's instructions (possibly revised) for wagons do not mention anything about soldering, entirely around 5 minute epoxy or super glue. Thank you for the tip however, I'll make sure. So far the wagon kit (VAN70 as per the SER Kits website above) has been very fun - the parts go together extremely well and logically, and there's more than enough information in the instructions. Getting a re-drawn copy of the works drawings at the same time at scale has also been extremely helpful.

I do have some practical questions! How would those vignoles rail sidings have been ballasted? Same beige shingle as the running lines or ash/etc. ? Would they also have been ballasted above the sleepers? I can't seem to find a consistent answer to when railways uncovered every X sleeper, is there a general assumption that's safe to make? The reputation of the SER being a dirty and ramshackle affair outside of their premiere trains, are we talking late BR Steam or 'the white gloves had a smudge when running on the footplate' ?

My Ahron book has arrived, and I've just picked up an 1873 SER Goods van and 1860's brake van from Dan at SER Kits. I was blessed to see his locomotives in person too, and couldn't help but put down a deposit for both a Stirling A Class and an O-class. His Cudworth 2-2-2 definitely stole the show, but I think getting some more practical engines at first makes sense. He did make me laugh, referring to his post-1876 wagons as 'modern'.

Hi Tom, that's a lovely photo - are you using some kind of specific lighting, or a photo filter too get that washed out effect? I find that colour scaling is the most obviously jarring mistake people make and you seem to have nailed it there.

Alan (CloggyDog), that's a great link - I'm very familiar with Lance's work (I built an N-scale version of his CSX Miami branch!) but I didn't realise he was into layout sounds. It seems that he has the same quandary that we do (and the same solution at least in the first article I've read, that of using a sound decoder under the layout.) Alan K - I've been keeping a weather eye on Traincontroller since I saw Rudy's Railroads on Youtube doing some impressive things. Of course it is a natural expansion to have sound, now that I think about it. I wonder if there's room for someone to step in commercially to provide sound packs? Generally bass notes are less defined than treble, so maybe for a steam-era layout you'd only need the under-board decoder to match the 'chug' of the pistons, leaving the whistle, etc. - that way you wouldn't have to deal with surround sound unless you had a huge layout...

On the topic of books I very much enjoyed 'The Grand Experiment' which concludes chronologically at 1850 - a wonderful view into the rather esoteric past however not particularly useful for most modellers. I'll check out that book shortly, I have a number inbound thanks to this thread already!

Here are some slot-in-post SER signals circa 1885 at Greenwich: and a previously unseen Greenwich Park station shot with a train in it! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Greenwich-Park-Railway-Station-Photo-Blackheath-and-Brockley-Line-SE-CR-1/252021775109?hash=item3aadab1b05:g:pvUAAOSwMmBVnnqt

How would I go about finding out what I want/need though? 'All pictures of Bricklayers Arms passenger terminus', 'photographs in the SE region dated prior to 1885 with railways as the subject' ?

That beautiful brighton shot looks lke it was taken from this the bridge in the middle-bottom of this map: http://maps.nls.uk//view/103674052

HA! I never knew the 'entering the layout from the middle from a tunnel infront of some switchback sidings' was actually a real thing http://maps.nls.uk//view/103679480 Central Croydon is indeed quite a funny one - two platforms with runarounds isn't the most exciting but it does compress in the way that Greenwich Park does, doesn't it?

Hi Martin, Thanks for the update re: Debs - I'm sorry to hear that. Speaking to the gent at Roxey Mouldings and he does indeed have O-MF fold-up gauges in stock for a princely £4.50 for two. Lovely. With regard to default setting, I just don't really know WHAT I should expect for a minimum radius in O-MF for reasonable compatibility (no 9F's here).

Interesting that the Greenwich Park terminus wasn't yet open (1888) and yet the line was there leading up to Blackheath Hill (which is basically just two platforms at track level and little else). I wonder if there were even trains running there? Kirkallanmuir of the 2mmFS magazine for Feb? Crikey, what a small world if so! I would like to run both passenger and freight trains, and have a place to have locomotives on-layout. To me this suggests a modest terminus station fairly obviously -but I'm very happy to be corrected or advised to the contrary. If the station island/ramp/view block leads out to staging however, surely that implies an additional fiddle yard on the opposite end of the board? I'm not sure if I'd want to sacrifice 50% of my layout length for hidden sidings?

Reading through these threads I think I've come to the conclusion that any 7mm layout I'm planning should be using O-MF turnouts, and either Peco flex (for tight curves i.e. greater slop) or hand laid O-MF depending. However, I can't seem to get hold of 'Debs' on the Templot forums who appears to be the only manufacturer. Is there anyone else out there who either produces or has some for sale? My other question was just whether or not the O-MF minimum radius in Templot (69") applies to turnouts roads? It would appear that it would preclude any turnout smaller than a B6! I need something that could support 0-6-0 tender locomotives, although of course if it could subsequently handle a Pacific without much complaint then I would be extremely chuffed. I gather with a 32mm gauge on plain track that one could have their 4' radius curves on typical GOG Finescale wheels? The only reason I'd even consider that is a separate 'test track' to set out on the patio but may as well ask it now! All the very best,

Right you are, I'm not sure how I missed that - thanks. I can't imagine any station would have been built without direct access to a platform face (i.e. departure-only roads) ?

I've just been speaking to Phil after an order on the website, and as per John's post above found him extremely friendly and engaging, and eager to help out. EDIT: In the interests of full disclosure I made an order on the 27th, and called through today (30th) because I wanted to add some items and hadn't got a reply via email. I was advised that the order was about to be picked, but I subsequently arranged with Phil to pay by card over the phone and to collect at the Ewell MRC open day on Saturday.

Lovely photo. It looks so pristine, but I wonder how much of that is the reality and how much is the photograph washing out texture and colouring. Are there any particular trackwork idiosyncrasies (with regard to alignment, entry/exit/etc. i.e. my previous comment re: slips) - I'm taking the Minories throat as granted, but I wonder if I could both simplify and shorten if such an arrangement would be overkill: The alternative is something much shorter, but has obviously compromised routing (there's no direct inbound access to Platform 3, but the throat is literally half the length. It seems a bridge too far to include a turnout from the inbound mainline across a diamond between the slip and three-way to get access to Platform 3!!):

Hi Bill, I've often wondered what the trackwork was in that little builders yard adjacent to Peckham Rye station - I guess it's too much to ask if there's any photos? If I remember correctly there was a wagon hoist on the side of the viaduct to get down to ground level? Or am I making that up? Would this have been the maze of wagon turntables you often see depicted in early goods yards? I'm not at all fussed about wharf scenes, though I do admit they are very modelgenic. A combination of SER passenger station on a viaduct, with a "bitsa" ground-level MR/GNR coal depot underneath does sound just dandy. I'm chuffed to hear you had a part in the F-class too - it was 100% exactly the reason for this whole escapade. All the best,

Well the majority of the locomotives that are available as kits that i'm looking at are post 1878 so that's not unreasonable. In the meantime I've bought 'Victorian and Edwardian Railways' and 'Victorian and Edwardian Railway Travel with Old Photographs' for a few pounds each in addition to the Ahron book, I'll report back on their usefulness. One thing I really want to avoid in a possible layout is a 12' x 18" flat board with a 3' platform at one end and a siding with a cattle dock and coal staithe - I think part of me would die inside. I wonder if a Minories layout on top, with a very small representation of lines leading to or from something like Vine Street on a lower level may give the best of both worlds? Or some kind of Ricean layout which would have the platforms and signal box/footbridge framing the exit to the fiddle yard and have the layout itself be a spaghetti of loco servicing roads and goods warehouses.

My father had one of his first jobs in an antique shop just opposite the old station building, if you can believe it! I had often thought that Greenwich Park was the perfect urban passenger terminus - sat in a cutting hedged on one side by a tunnel and the other by the station building, retaining walls on one side and a steep cutting on the other. How would freight have been dealt with in these small stations (I'm thinking of Greenwich Park in particular, which as far as I can see only had three platform faces and a tiny loco pocket.) ? In my theoretical SER Minories, I would envision a Grand Vitesse depot for 'proper' freight but surely even ostensibly passenger stations would have had SOME things delivered by wagon?

Well I think that has quite comprehensively decided that it's NOT the location for me. Honestly, 16-20' of linear space across the livingroom occasionally, and a scenic 8' section semi-permanently in the office, assuming some partial operation could take place without longer staging boards attached.

Ah, so Midland at Nunhead, GN at Brockley (albeit in LCDR as per Simon's keen observation). I hadn't really considered that this kind of operation was particularly frequent in THE DARK AGES (henceforth accompanied by ominous fortissimo organ chord) but clearly you're correct. I'm heartened to hear that my MR 8-ton van can find some use on the SER layout! On one hand maybe it would behove me to model some kind of joint station (LCDR/SER, or SER/LBSCR as at Purley), but... I feel as though I can justify a cramped urban terminus Minories-style specifically because of the internecine bickering between the SER/LCDR and SECR/LBSCR. It seems entirely plausible that much like the Bricklayers Arms terminus was a galvanising force allowing the SER to lease LGR metals into London Bridge, it would entirely be within character for the SER to strike out in some other direction towards the centre of town just to spite the Brighton or Chatham.

Here's that shown now: https://binged.it/2EjExvN AFAIK the line went Peckham Rye -> Nunhead -> whereupon the Crystal Palace branch split south. Carrying on straight ahead was the GN coal depot, then the bridge over the LB&SCR at Brockley (and the Brockley Road station itself) to either the Greenwich Park branch over the top of St Johns, or connecting chord towards Lewisham (site of that awful train crash in the 60's). I may have been a bit hyperbolic when I said that the GN depot was literally on the Greenwich Park Branch, but in my defense it's on the same route about a mile up the line! Here's the 1897 map showing the depot at the far bottom, crossing over the LB&SCR line: http://maps.nls.uk//view/101919891. At the top of the map you can sew New Cross Low Level station which was AFAIK a GER station (i.e. East London Railway) that briefly resurged as a goods-only and then was subsumed into the goods yard for what is now New Cross Gate.