Lacathedrale

Funnily enough just on the corner of my old road there was a GN coal depot (on an SER branch line to Greenwich, crossing the LB&SC line to Croydon). The fact that the branch line diverged from Nunhead (just one stop after Peckham) means that your train above might even have been a candidate for it!

Many thanks for all the links and assistance. I do appreciate now that the information may be available in specific societies. I've registered an interest with the South East & Chatham Society to get a view there. I was naievely hoping there were articles and scans online - but as has been described it's mostly second-hand sources!

Hi Justin, I've deliberately not thrown my toys out of the pram despite my vociferate dissatisfaction after 4+ hours! I made alot of mistakes that are obvious in retrospect. I've got two identical 16T mineral kits, so maybe we could have a bash at those one evening in parallel so you can tell me where I'm going wrong? All the best,

I think I'd be OK with 1880's shots, since all the latest 1870's developments would still be in evidence - especially if they are more common. I guess one would simply have to be very careful about including "modern" elements. I do like the idea of a railway 'dark age' - it will preclude my rivet-counting obsession. So if I were to summarise what we've discussed so far typically we'd see slot-in-post signals, low platforms, fine ballast over the rails (but with sagging to show said timbers), flatbottom rail on older lines and sidings spiked directly to the timbers. Carriages would be short bogie, six or four wheeled depending on main, secondary or branch line status. Wagons would be a mixture of sprung and dumb buffered. My own research has indicated there might be a carriage loading dock, cattle dock, and as per my previous post - probably a greater preponderance of three ways, diamonds, wagon turntables and so on. A common use policy wasn't in effect so one would typically only see wagons of the home railway. The SER is constantly bemoaned as preferring continental travellers running gleaming expresses and first class carriages to the detriment and filth of the lower class passenger and freight workings.

That's exactly what I mean - it is indeed a hatch with a concertina ladder. Now I just need to figure a way that I can get the whole visible section of a layout into 8' in O-gauge.

Very interesting - I do find it odd that we have such detailed OS maps that we can determine things like turntable diameters and signal post locations, but we have no (easy access to) pictures of said turntables, posts or even trackwork. I've read somewhere that tandem turnouts were alot more common and slips less so in this era, is that correct?

That was the general thought for a 2mmFS layout for the studio, but with a minimum radius of 2'6" or so it meant a significant portion of the layout would exist in these transient bridge sections, and having to hand lay all the track meant it wasn't quite as simple as tacking down some flex! I reckon if the visible section of the layout can incorporate enough length of headshunts/etc. to do an inglenook, pose some locomotives, etc. then it would be fine almost as a semi-static display in between 'getting the trains out to play' in the living room. Thank you kindly for your thoughts

Unfortunately garage repairs have to go behind repainting the house (we've recently moved in), replacing the bathroom and boiler, etc. etc. - hence this idea of a loft site being a potentially good one. I certainly don't like the idea of having to build in massive expansion gaps, though! I wonder how much layout I could fit on 8' or 10' (to fit on a shelf in my office or studio respectively)? There wouldn't be much in the way of operation but it would be 'here' as opposed to 'all the way out there', and a shelf underneath could hold the staging or scenic extension boards. The reason I say that, is the longest dimension for my livingroom is 22' and that 'straight line' is basically never used, so I could in theory get SWMBO's permission to lay it up for a "proper" operating session from time to time. Also, easy access to the patio in better weather.

Gosh, maybe too much of a bother - but on the other hand how will i deal with temperature fluctations in an uninsulated, unheated garage? The garage is a 6m x 5m x 3m quadrilateral so in theory perfect for railways, but it'll set me back a couple of grand to get it to a workable state (currently it's just plain concrete block construction, concrete floor, leaking roof, etc.). Strangely the loft has actually got windows already, pics here: https://imgur.com/QhicrSn - I would in theory build the modules in the garage, lay the track and test/etc. in the garden studio and then schlep them up into the house and through the hatch, whereupon they'd be bolted together for actual use. Am I making things too complicated?

Hi all, The more I keep considering my options for a larger layout, the more my loft appeals. It's got power, lighting, a proper floor with carpet and only two horizontal joists at waist height. It's a bit chilly now in the cold, but no more so than the garage would be (which is realistically the only other site for a large layout unless I want an out-and-back in my already somewhat-congested garden office). Both the garden office and the shed are at the other end of the garden, and I've found it quite a challenge to motivate myself to get down there in freezing rain and in the dark. Other than the aforementioned susceptibility to the weather is the rather small hatch - I think I could get a 4' x 2' x 6" module up there in one go, but other than that it would have to be constructed in-situ. I would be really interested to hear about the ergonomics of this - do you find yourself going up there to work on it? Or avoiding it in favour of a workbench? All things being equal would you have found somewhere to build it other than there? Is it made in order that it can be transported to another location (i.e. exhibition, livingroom, etc.) or permanently attached? All the best,

Hi Edwardian, thank you for your kind help and advice. How much of turnout timbers would have been seen under this fine layer of ballast? I'm thinking to myself - why make my life hard with interlaced turnout timbers from the get-go if it's all going to be covered!? Thank you very much for the tip on vignoles rail in secondary/siding/etc. - I wonder if Peco Code-100 flatbottom rail might be a good use for vignoles spiked to timbers - certainly with the ballasting mentioned above it hardly seems neccesary to go the whole hog In terms of modelling, definitely down one of my previously described layout plans i.e. Caterham (possibly semi-fictionalised into 'Foxley Wood' so I can fit it into a reasonable space) or Greenwich Park (again, twisted into 'Southwark Park' so I can have at least one or two goods lines). I'm trying some 2mmFS now, but I think this would most definitely fit better in 7mm and I'm already in conversation with Dan at SER Kits to order one of his Stirling A-class 4-4-0's. Jim, I've picked up that Ahron book just to have something to leaf through, hopefully it'll come useful. Thank you. Nick - I want to be as accurate as possible, but this is a model and layout building exercise rather than a doctoral thesis - so if I can't find out this information after a good effort I'm happy to freelance it based on whatever IS available! Hopefully I can post my progress such as it is here, and be pilloried for it.

Perfect, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. I can see a few copies on sale for £22.50 or so, so I'll definitely grab one. Of course, that's hoping that there's enough SER/LCDR in there All the very best,

Hi there, you're right that the KESR was much later, but I didn't say KESR, rather just 'railways of Kent and Sussex i.e. the areas With regard to baulk road, it was just a point to illustrate that many of the things we take for granted in later modelling (for ex. train diagrams, headcodes, processes for watering and turning locomotives, what goods facilities would have been seen, how long the earliest wagons/etc. appeared etc.) all appear to be all but unknown. It looks like one can view the entire archive of Railway Magazine online (https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/archive/) so that could be a start. Do you have any recommendations on books? I'm happy to trawl primary sources but just a general pointer would be great (I've requested some info about SECSOC for that purpose too). All the very best,

I'm quite familiar with the broad brush strokes and practices of the pre grouping era, but the gulf between the experimental era (1830s-1850s) and the turn of the 20th century is all but a blank for me! Resources seem extremely scant, and I'm not even sure where to look. Most books I've read summarise the early periods of these lines into paragraphs of facts and figures, rather than giving an "in the moment" view. By way of illustration: what was the platform surface (or height?), What kind of turnouts were used (what chairs? Where did baulk road exist?), How were passenger trains handled in an era of common mixed trains? Etc. Is there a book which covers this in general bounds? If not, my specific interest is the railways of Kent and Sussex, the LBSCR, LCDR and SER.

Excellent, so to confirm that there would be PO wagons, older examples with dumb buffers? Do you have a link to this photo archive? It would be helpful to get an idea of what I'm going to be looking for because other than looking for kits which are for companies which I know to be concurrent with the SER I'm not sure what else to check (or even where to find out what to check!) With regard to coaching stock/etc. I'm thinking Caterham, Greenwich Park or equivalent i.e. a relatively short branch off a rather busy mainline, some through trains and some branch-only. It would be in 7mm and so unlikely to be much more than an out-and-back layout even with the best intentions. If there is scope for six wheelers on secondary mainlines and four wheelers for branch traffic then that works fine for me.

Randomly found myself browsing SER Kits and I'm really besotted by some of his mid-late 19th Century kits - the Stirling A-class for example! It's in a lovely apple green and chocolate scheme in his catalogue https://serailkits.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/serkits-catalogue-kits-may-20131.pdf I gather those are as-built schemes and would have lasted some indeterminate period - but for some reason I've got it into my head that the SER and LCDR alike had very austere schemes (which is why the SE&CR lined green and crimson was so impressive). What's the deal? He seems to be a bit of a one-stop shop when it comes to this period: passenger trains, coaches, railway wagons, etc. To be clear though, what kind of stock would one see on a branch/secondary main? From what I can read on his site the four wheel coaches would be in evidence, and some rather stumpy brake vans - but what about wagons? Would P.O. wagons appear in this context (if so, which kinds please? I gather probably dumb-buffered?)

Well I managed to put together the body and chassis (minus solebars) of my 21T Tippler. I took a picture but I'm just too ashamed. It looks like it was built out of concrete

Interesting. I guess as discussed above the issue is that not every loco sounds the same - so unless one was happy with 'generic' sounds you'd need duplicates of the loco sound decoders on the same Address # and exactly the same CV's.

I'm keeping an eye on this, after seeing that fine trackwork in action.

So, my PGA wagons didn't turn up, and after contemplation I didn't really like the 33. So my stock consists of a 37 and some 16T mineral wagon kits, and a J72 kit. My inspiration remains unchanged - (an industrial area of a larger station complex), but I think I may backdate the layout to the 1960's so the J72 (rather clapped out at this point) could run concurrently with an all-over green 37. It changes the location a little to the NE rather than SE, but I can live with that as it clearly is Purley-inspired. This is a slightly revised plan, not much has changed other than extending that siding, but hopefully it provides a glimpse of the larger picture: The only thing that would change to both add a little operational interest and make it more suitable for an end-of-steam era is the addition of an exit in the top right to a level crossing and rail-served factory. I think I would quite happily have this as a cantilevered single track rather than a cassette/etc. With a slightly altered setting and timeline I'm not sure the aggregate workings would be wholly appropriate, but I can see that Buckingham had a gravel pit and a malt factory that were rail served, so maybe that's enough? Given the 16T minerals I have will be on coal workings I am technically free to use whatever industry fits, so any alternate suggestions would be gladly taken.

You can use what you learn to apply it anywhere

Gosh, spent many idle afternoons (and some less idle commutes) looking at the Metal Box Company. The whole thing is beautiful, bravo.

Looks a little like Dursley? If it's LNWR i.e. pre-grouping and oddly eccentric, would that make a turntable release for the platform road plausible? Engine shed and coaling station/etc. could be on a kickback infront of the traverser? If we're going full-on twee then maybe even a NG trans-loading point on those lower tracks?

Hi Chris, you're right - I had flirted with EM in the past and may do so again in future should the stars align, but being based at home and not really having the impetus to exhibit (although I'm trying to goad myself into it!), and a fair dissatisfaction with MPD/TMD/shunting plank layouts does limit me somewhat even in 4mm:ft. I may yet whack up a little S7 cameo, I guess the good thing about model railways is that neither the prototype nor the modelling change much over the years.

Hi Chris, Not my first model ever, but I've mainly been into wargames as a hobby in my teens and a few years ago. I've been doing model railways on and off too, but never managed to actually finish a kit, let alone a paint job. I don't have a layout for my S7 stuff unfortunately, my membership to the society has lapsed and though I've got a stonking great garage now even that quakes in fear at S7 radii. With lots of help I'm downsizing significantly to 2mmFS, but in the meantime while I'm waiting for kits and parts to be delivered I decided to practise my airbrush and oil wash skills. I'm glad it came out nicely. I've got an LNER coal wagon too but needs some serious toning down...