Gibbo675

Just started to work on a Hornby 'railroad' 0-4-0. Anyone else had a go at using this loco for a kit bash?image.jpegimage.jpeg

You could take this as a lead;

Pip Pip

The etymology of engine is quite interesting, and for most of human history an engine (and indeed the term engineer) had a very different meaning to the generally accepted meanings of today. Which indicates that trying to claim that the more modern interpretation is sort of dumbing down is on very shaky ground (ditto claiming exclusivity on who can call themselves an engineer).

 

 

Q. What's the difference between an etymologist and an entomologist ?

A. An Etymologist knows what an entomologist does !

Yes I know, feeble attempt.

It really annoys me when I see people's lack of knowledge on how to differentiate between words that sound the same, but are spelt differently.

 

There - A place, "I'm drinking my coffee over there"

Their - Belonging to, "I'm going to their house for coffee"

They're - They are, "They're coming round for coffee"

 

To - a direction, "We are going to..."

Two - A pair, "I have two legs"

Too - Also, "I have two legs too"

 

Here - A location or presentation, "I'm staying here" or "Here is my car"

Hear - Akin to ears, "I can hear you clearly" or "Can you hear me?"

 

It's easy really, but people seem to have a lack of this basic knowledge. I even know a professor who cannot differentiate between them!

Q, What's the difference between an entomologist and an etymologist ?

A. One of them knows what the other one does !

I know, feeble.

Correct terminology it may be but I never heard any railway worker refer to those parts as 'engines' in the past and so I have learned something today.

P

I spent twenty years working at Riley and Son's of Bury and the correct terminology for a cylinder, a valve chest, the connecting rod and all of the associated valve gear is indeed engine, therefore A1Tornado is a locomotive with three engines.

That you have not heard railway workers use the term does not surprise me as the use of the word engine is common usage for locomotive both on the railway generally and in enthusiast circles.

Have a read of my above post to AndyID, you may note that I use the term engine for the part of the the locomotive that had failed.

Any questions, do please ask and I shall provide answers where I am able.

Gibbo.

Evening All,

 

I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!.

 

My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991).

Hi John,

Here is a link to Bury Knowsley Street station that shews the flat crossing where the ELR ski-jump bridge is now;

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/bury_knowsley_street/index.shtml

I used to buy bacon butties from the cabin on Knowsley Street bridge, it was all that was left of that station an has now gone also.

Gibbo.

Just to add, 40039 was scrapped in green (albeit TOPS numbered).

 

I have a photo of my uncle somewhere, he's hanging out of the droplight of 389 (I think) and the pic is dated 1972.

 

Both uncle and loco were allox Springs Branch.

Also, 40136 was the last 40 in green to be repainted blue, another SP machine and thus its repaint made 40106 the celebrity it is to this day.

I remember 40 106 in green charging past New Lane doing upward of line speed in the 1970's with Orangeman-Apprentice Boy specials to Southport and going not so fast when on the coal hoppers also to Southport if not in charge of a class 25.

Gibbo.

Hi Folks,

I am making progress with my Irish ferry containers, here they are on the early prototype container flats which carried two 20' boxes.

Here is a link to my other Freightliner based thread;

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136308-freightliner-prototype-flat-wagon/

Hi Folks,

Here is a photo with some unusual containers, they are the Irish Ferry service containers and have a BR blue stripe instead of the more usual red stripe.

Here is a link to my other Freightliner based thread;

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136258-freightliner-containers-with-blue-stripes/

Think its a group of scum that took the cables

Cables... Universally... Nationally.... Thieved .... Society....

Seems to be a national club these days

When leaving their weekly meetings do they say, See-You-Next-Tuesday ?

Many years ago some steam locos at the K&WVR had various bronze valve castings stolen by similar types that smashed them off the boilers with sledging hammers along with City of Wells driving axle boxes.

Evening All,

 

I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!.

 

My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991) when the line was only in operation between Bury and Crumpsall, the section between Crumpsall and Manchester having already closed for conversion to Manchester Metrolink. The advantage of modelling Bury Interchange is that it is a fairly compact site which will fit nicely along the 10ft wall I have available in my home office (with a bit of prototype compression!), fiddle yard lengths will be restricted to a 2 car 504 which seemed to be the standard during the last month of operation. Operationally the unusual (for modern standards) pointwork and diamond crossover at the station throat will give some interest, I also intend to build a fully interlocked replica IFS panel based on the one at Hagside Crossing (which controlled Bury Interchange) to control signals and points which will make operation a bit more interesting. Scale wise I intend to go for P4 as I only intend to build 2 class 504s, no idea where I will get the wheels from yet or track parts suitable for flat bottomed rail!.

 

Screen grab from google maps showing the layout area below, worth noting that the ELR over bridge was built after 1991 so wont be included on my layout:

 

Bury Plan.jpg

 

Before I started building the layout I wanted to make sure I could knock together a passable representation of a class 504 (the DC kits version no longer being available). Bury without a class 504 would be like a GWR branch line without any GWR stock.

 

Luckily I was able to purchase 2 sets of DC kits 504 cab ends, roof domes and cab sides from ebay recently, which, whilst being in used condition and fairly rough were good enough to enable me to make a start. Having cleaned up the DC kits parts I got a Bachmann EPB model and stripped down all the glazing, separated the bodies from the chassis and removed the roof etc. Then I carefully cut the cab ends off using the leading edge of the cab door as a guide, replacement cab sides were then squared up and glued in place along with cab fronts and roof domes. Picture below pre-priming shows the new bits fitted on the DMBS next to the DTS already in primer:-

 

IMG_0819.JPG

 

As would be expected getting a good fit on the parts was very challenging with a lot of filler used to fill gaps and extensive sanding required (the filling and sanding process being undertaken numerous times in some areas!). The roofs were cut to allow the roof domes to be installed and blended in with filler, ribs and electrical conduit were also removed from the Bachmann roofs. Both bodies are now primed and subject to more sanding starting to look the part:-

 

IMG_0820.JPG

 

Still a fair bit of work to do on the bodies, particularly the gutter line between the roof dome and Bachmann roof however I am happy with how things are progressing. I haven't even looked at the chassis yet which will need some pretty major surgery just to enable the bodies to fit with the new cab ends. The units will be finished in orange and tan GMPTE livery with significant grafitti tags and a generally worn appearance to suit the last month in operation feel. I am not looking forward to the painting as I don't like spraying and getting the masking to sit as a straight line for the joint between the tan and orange will be a nightmare (the line is just above the door bangers which will distort the masking).

 

I know the prototype and period wont be to everyone's interest however hopefully someone has found this interesting.

Hi Jon,

As the track plan goes if you choose your time period correctly there was originally a flat crossing where the ELR ski-jump over bridge is now. The coal trains to Rawtenstall used to use it mainly with 21 ton hoppers and were hauled class 40's and class 25's.

That should bring you a bit of conflicting move type of operational interest !

Gibbo.

The wheel-rail dynamics subject was very important indeed for freight wagons, many of which hopped off the track, for no obvious reason, when freight trains started to run above snail's pace in the mid/late 60s. The research into causes and solutions of that probably had a more direct bearing on the pacer than did APT, because it allowed an understanding of how to keep four-wheeled vehicles stable at speed ........ I have a dim recollection of being shown a Pacer experimental chassis in the same lab/workshop at the RTC as was being used for wagon research.

 

Quite a bit of knowledge from APT was fed forward via GEC-Alstom into the pendolino breed, although the tilt mechanism is rather different.

 

When I watched the video above, I kept thinking that the basic premise of a train that could run at high speed on twisty track was right, but I also kept remembering that a lot of bitter words were said when APT was canned, about how poorly it had been run as a project, in fact I think it was what led BR to start adopting formal project management approaches, as opposed to having engineers lead the show.

Hi Kevin,

I have worked alongside chaps that had previously worked upon different projects at the Derby RTC, one of which Geoff Armstrong, regaled me with a story of what happened when someone wondered what would happen to the toilet discharge at 125mph.

A quite simple test was instigated to be carried out on the next test run, that of a gallon of white wash down the toilet pan of the leading coach. When 125mph was reached the toilet was flushed resulting in a white leading bogie of that particular coach fading to grey along the valance toward the trailing bogie of that coach.

Worse still the aerodynamics of the train caused a general updraught that drew in the miasma of white wash such that it covered not so much the side of the rest of the train but very neatly coated all of the leading edges of all of the projections sticking out from the coaches, the ones that makes you turn particularly green were the door handles, YUK !

As for wheel to rail interface dynamics, having ridden as many miles as I have upon steam locomotive footplates I am still amazed that any of them stay on the track at all, especially over Chat Moss.

Gibbo.

Hi Folks,

I was rained off from working today but the adavntage being that I have been busy with toy trains !

The couplings have been slightly modified so that they will not uncouple when propelled and also look a bit better as they have been reduced in size.

First I cut off  the ends of the coupling so that the hook's return is about in line with the shank and then I glued some retaining plates for want of a term to prevent the hook's return becoming uncoupled. The retaining plates are made from .030" plasticard and are 5mm X 3mm with a 3mm X 1mm notch to cope the shank of the hook. The experimental hooks are shewn below;

The wagons themselves have been sprayed with two coat of Halfords matt black and the bogies have been finally secure by having their collars glued onto the bogie pivots. The bogies need a once over with some black paint but this may be done more easily while attached to the wagon as I will get less paint on my fingers that way.

Here are the painted wagons, two with boxes and two without, for those that have been following they are of the same batch as the rather tatty ones earlier in the thread which are also going through the works at the moment.

I have not fitted air tanks as I have not yet found a photograph that shews well enough either the size or position of them. If all else fails I shall replicate the positioning in line with that  of the FFA/FGA wagons which is known to me. Brake hand wheels will be fitted when they arrive sometime next week along with a coupling hook for the buffered ends.

There were some vac-braked bogie Conflats, based on Boplate Es, built for the 'Condor' services; when these were superseded by Freightliner's services, they went over to the Cobra coke trains from Derwenthaugh, and then salt and potash traffic from Boulby.

HI FC,

The wagons you mention are also in the same Barrowmore diagram book previously noted and there are photographs of them on page 110 and 111 of Freightiner Life and Times and of course Paul Barlett's site which offer much better aspect;

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bogiecondor/h6E02C3F6#h6bd5db1a

The potash containers used for the Boulby trains are quite a strange shape and there is a photo of one within this gallery;

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cobra4whpfa

Gibbo.

Replying to this post and to David Hill64 above it; you are correct. Didn't BR hire several engineers from the aerospace industry into their research department, and they came up with some whizz-bang ideas of which the APT was the result; the HST was the traditional railway engineers' answer to that. I can remember a TV programme, maybe in the 1990s, where the commercial department had gone to the engineers and said "Could you design a train that will fulfil this schedule on the ECML?" the engineers said "No, but we can give you this" and the commercial department were amazed at how superior the engineers' design was - the class 91 &  mk4 concept.

Hi There,

Is this the video you were thinking of ?

If not it's a good one any way.

Gibbo.

Was it air braked? For some reason thought it was vacuum

Hi Russ,

The wagons were certainly air braked for the diagram in the Barrowmore link both above and repeated below states automatic air brake and hand wheel, also in the book "Freightliner-Life and Times" there is a photograph on page 99 where you can clearly make out the two air pipes on the head stock.

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight1Issue.pdf

The two wagon types discussed are about a third of the way down the page.

Gibbo. 

I particularly like this one;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rosebud-Kitmaster-SNCF-24IP29-Railway-Train-Model-1970-circa-Vintage-toy-49/390771744866?hash=item5afbcfa062%3Ag%3A4vkAAOxy63FS~Knp&_sacat=180250&_nkw=rosebud+kitmaster&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2505460.m570.l2632.R2.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xrosebud+kit.TRS0

You may wish to purchase a suitable tender from the very same emporium for a shiny penny under a whole fifty pounds, bargain !

That said I have no idea where you might get a cab for a reasonable sum.

Gibbo.

Hi Folks,

Here is the latest exciting installment of the prototype Freightliner wagon build.

This evenings work was to fit the couplings between the wagons and the buffers to the ends of the Outer Wagons.

For the intermediate wagons I was going to use some Keen system Buckeyes but I was not altogether happy with the shape of the shank which would not have passed through the head stocks of the wagons. Fortunately four more Dapol Presflos arrived and I spotted that within the kit is a coupling that with a bit of cutting and filling could be made to look enough like a Buckeye for my liking with the bonus that they are sort of free as the last lot went in the bin still attached to the sprues.

The first job was to mark out drill and file a slot 2mm X 8mm in the head stocks 1mm down from the top edge for the coupling to pass through. the next job was to drill a 1/16" hole 10mm back from the face of the head stocks to accept the pivot pin for the coupling.

The buffers are Comet oval LMS type and after tidying up with a file were set at 14mm from the rail head to centre height and spaced at 22mm. A 1mm location hole was drilled and the buffers glued into position with cyanacrylate.

Here are the latest two photos of the rake one shewing the Prototype Set coupled up together and one shewing it juxtaposed for comparison with the later standard FFA and FGA wagon types.

The next job will be to source some hooks for the buffer ends of the Outer Wagons along with air tanks and brake hand wheels.

Gibbo.

I am old, fat, bald, half Welsh and support the Arsenal. ! HAVE NO ISSUES WITH ANYONE MAKING A JOKE ABOUT ANY OF THESE AREAS PROVIDING ITS IN JEST, that's the difference. The political correctness brigade wants to spoil everyone's fun. However if the joke is done out of spite, that's a different story and I am in agreement

 

Jokes are normally stereotypical in one way or another, if they weren't they they would have no humour. My dad was called by his friends  curly, or Taffy. the formed being bald he thought was funny the later he was rightly proud. They were terms of endearment which he approved of and always brought a smile to his face, when I hear both words they give me good memories

 

The world would be a far better place if we laughed with each other, rather than take offence at the slightest word. 

Hi There,

I was once pulled up  by someone for calling his son a "Ginger Hamster", he was quite chubby in the cheeks and had red hair. Once I had pointed out that if I didn't like him I wouldn't even speak to him let alone call him silly names he withdrew his complaint.

As for the PC brigade they need to find out about Saul Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals" so that they might realise that they are being played as "Useful Idiots" before it is too late for all of society.

Gibbo.

I also read the attempts at humour with an increasing sense of dread. 

 

I think this is one of the main factors underlying the subtle side of sexism, reducing everything to a joke; because that is what a lot of men do when they are talking to each other - make jokes about women, their driving, d-i-y skills, etc. And I'm not excusing myself in this. 

 

Unfortunately there is no escape, because everyone is brought up with sexism. How many of us buy pink birthday cards and cuddly toys for our daughters/granddaughters and blue cards or lorries and trains for sons/grandsons. Can you get a girl's birthday card which isn't pink and with teddies/flowers/dollys on? And vice-versa for a boy?

 

Why do we do this? 

 

I am not trying to stir things up here, just trying to say - is it any surprise that we 'expect' a man's head to be full of technical stuff and a woman's not to be, if that is the stereotypical world youngsters grow up in? 

Hi There,

Pink and blue is to do with red shift and blue shift within the essential energies of female and male souls, its all a bit esoteric but Thomas H Burgoyne describes the process in his Book the Light of Egypt. There has to be duality within a three dimensional existence or else there would be no up or down in or up or side to side in an as above ans so below sort of a way.

Hi Folks,

After twenty five years as a locomotive engineer I decided that the politics was too much like trouble so I now work semi retired as a self employed joiner.

Should I ever get an awkward customer I point and say, "There are the tools if you know better !".

It has also been known for me to quietly pack up my tools and walk calmly out to my van with them and drive off home. I was once challenged saying, "Don't worry there's no charge !"

Just because I am engaged for payment does not mean that people may be rude to me.

Gibbo.

You're going to drive yourself nuts with this.

 

 

One thing that you learn when designing wagon transfers from prototype photos is that, whilst you may know what the BR prescribed way of doing it was - very few wagon painters either knew or cared !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

Hi John,

With these two comments you have identified very well the disparity between the way that modellers and the real railway go about their business.

The other one is shades of paint, especially years ago when the painters weighed out their own pigments and mixed them per individual job, and that is before we get into the effects of sun bleaching.

Gibbo.

I'm sure that Mr Musk will have a suitable submarine.

Hi There.

The Ruskies have no need of the appalling shill Mr Musk,

http://thesaker.is/part-3-submarine-rescue-ships-with-the-russian-navy/

Pip Pip,

Gibbo.

What became of these vehicles? I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one

Hi Russ,

I don't actually know what happened to this prototype set other than it was built in 1964 at Shildon and that it was used to trial the carriage and securing system of the then new aluminium boxes. I Presume that it went into use along side the various converted Lowmac and other types of flat wagon that had been altered for use with the new boxes and also that it was indeed the basis for the later FFA/FGA wagons that shared very similar construction techniques. The set may well have worked along side the FFA/FGA sets latterly although this is just a guess upon my part.

I have looked for photographic evidence of which routes it worked and indeed when it may have been withdrawn but found nothing other than what I have so far posted within this thread, any information would be most welcome.

Gibbo.

because im a bit thick and a slow learner, im going to ask that if I post a pic, could the first person who knows point out what  the vans are in the train and what company they are available from, product code may be a good idea too if known, especially for the livery. preferably 00 but whatever scale your most familiar with.

 

also, is there any sort of estimate on a date when crimson was last seen on any parcels stock, Im guessing it got a longer stay of execution than passenger stock?

 

heres a couple of nice images..

 

R1369  LMS Parcels Van Leicester Central 18Apr1964 by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

 

R1370  LNER Parcels Van Leicester Central 18Apr1964 by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

Hi There,

The last maroon MK1 was repainted into Blue grey in about 1977 give or take so it would seem there was a tapering out as stock became due for repaint, with repaints being every seven to ten years depending upon condition. If the paintwork was in good condition sometimes a re-varnish would keep them going toward the ten year mark.

I remember green class 47's well into the 1970's and in those days some parcels vans just looked brown with dirt so who knows what colour the paint/rust was underneath ?

Gibbo.

That looks like some good precise work. I can never cut plasticard (or anything else) with the precision I would like.

 

How do you feel about the strength of the join?

Hi Tom,

The strength of the join is fine, first when I cut the section I cut it a slight long and then file the ends back to length which gives a good square flat surface to take the cement also when I join the pieces I apply as much pressure as I feel is reasonable with out causing flex which makes sure that the dissolved plastic of the joint interface is fully contacted and then I leave it to cure for about as long as it takes to brew up and look out of the window !?!? The other thing that assists the joint is that they are strapped joints because the section of the wagon is too shallow and has a .030" plasticard strip cemented to the underside of the sole bars which gives a lot of extra support.

In theory a properly cemented plastic joint ought to be a strong as a moulded component, granted it rarely is but even 80% of a moulded component is good enough and with the strapping is plenty good enough.

Gibbo.