Gibbo675

Cheers boss!

 

Haha yes! It wasn't intentional

 

 

I agree, perhaps the ROD 2-8-0 locos (later rebuilt with Hatt cabs, of course - the same style then copied by Hughes and Stanier's offices, or did Hatt copy Hughes, or Collet for that matter?) would be good candidates for some big strong names like those mentioned above, especially taking into account the connection to the war effort.

 

Similarly the massive amount of surplus WD 2-8-0s available after WW2 makes sense that the NWR should have a few, with similar naming conventions.

 

Reminds me of this drawing from the Model Railway News in the late 1940s

7950238190_59519e8a31_c.jpg

 

and this one too!

7950225656_959609b351_c.jpg

 

Regarding Daisy - thank you for the heads-up on the book! The current idea is to give some more life to a local (to me) railcar - ex-GW, ex-WC&P, ex-SR No.5.

 

After the WC&P stock was carted off to Swindon in 1940 (and mostly scrapped) this Drewry petrol railcar ended its days as a pavilion at a school! But maybe in this universe it was sold up North.

Would require some re-scripting ("A p-p-p-p-petrol!?') but then maybe Crovans Gate could re-engine it with a Perkins, Gardner or an AEC lump after the war.

 

 

Yes that was exactly the kind of cab I was thinking about to begin with (also it's funny how the WT and my photobodge above are almost two ends of the spectrum).

I realised though that I may have had my dates a bit wrong as Stanier was still at Swindon during the period the N Class kits would have been arriving on the island (1924-1925ish) and at that time the relationships between the LMS and the NWR were not at their best, so possibly another influence may work?

 

woolworth4.jpg

 

This also takes into account Neil's point regarding a 2-6-2T (though it could still be used for the Norramby-Barrow service)

Perhaps a static model could be made from 2 GBL locos as a test?

Hi Corbs,

In backdating Daisy the DMU, try the LMS Paxman contraptions seen on this page,

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page20.htm

Also to be found on page 9 of BR Fleet survey 9

It was created from motorising LMS open brake thirds, I have no idea what colour it was but its got speed whiskers! Brian Haresnape's Fleet survey books are great for all kinds of forerunner type project pictures of various main line locos, shunters and multiple units both diesel and electric.

For pure style and something less boxy, have a look at this, the MAV Hargita,

http://www.train-photos.net/picture/show/24042/Ganz-A1A-2-Hargita-Diesel-electric-railcar-no-46

What about a Fell mechanical type contraption made form an old Lima 08, some pony trucks and bits of class 45 body? In time I intend to build a proper Fell by splicing two shunter's running gear and a hefty amount of scratch building, but a Corbs ensmallened 4-6-4 or 2-6-2 version would be easier for the fun of it.

Gibbo.

Once it's up, you can always tell me the height you require i.e. insulator base to the wire. And I can do it. However I suggest having the pantograph head/shoe 1mm lower than the wire so that there's no risk of snapping or getting tangled up.

Good thinking Batman!  That is just what I had in mind, I don't think anyone except for those rivet counting types would object.

Well for starters, it's a 3D printed pantograph and therefore cannot be adjusted post printing.

 

However I will, once uploaded to my shop offer the pantograph at various heights. I will also allow people to request custom heights if so be it.

 

In relation to the last part of your post, my country of residence actually won't matter. The pantograph kit will be (like all my other kits) 3D printed by Shapeways and sold from my shop hosted by Shapeways. If you reside in the UK, then you'll most likely get your 3D print done by Shapeways' Eidenhoven facility in The Netherlands.

 

I'll be finalizing the CAD shortly, just need to asjust the insulators to the dimensions provided by Gordon H.

Thanks for the reply, I shall keep an eye out for developments and decide at what height I would like the pantographs to be.

Gibbo.

Hey everyone,

 

Last year I had designed a Brecknell-Willis pantograpgh kit, it was well received and I've decided to have a go at making a replica of a Stone-Faiveley type which was most commonly used by the Class 86 and if I recall correctly the APT-P and a few EMUs.

 

We all know that 3D printing has it's limitations and so does the material it is 3D printed in. With that in mind I have made a 3D model of the Stone-Faiveley type pantograph. I'm attaching pictures below of the CAD work, bear in mind that it's as close as possible I've been able to get it with the limited pictures and information available online. I have however paid more attention to the upper and lower arm as that's what really makes the pantograph.

 

1.jpg

 

2.jpg

 

3.jpg

 

I've uploaded it to Shapeways and it's passed the initial tests for FUD. I was hoping it would pass the test in brass as well, but unfortunately the insulators didn't make it, and beefing up the insulators won't look so good. But it has passed the checks for FUD.

 

My plan is to offer it in raised and lowered positions. There'll obviously be 1 lowered variant and I am thinking about atleast 3-4 variants of the raised one, each at a different height. It will obviously be based on the Hornby Class 86 in relation to the rest like Peco or Dapol catenary.

 

Please note that it's not meant for those detailed obsessed, accuracy obsessed people. It's meant for those who just want something better looking than what's currently available and those who just want to paint it and plonk it on. Fell free to complete the poll attached with this thread. And there's no option to vote NO because it's only targeted at those who want one.

 

I am open to suggestions etc, please PM if you'll have any suggestions.

Hi MGR,

I like the idea that I could just glue it on and after painting it would look right, I don't have a layout at the moment but should I build one my collection of AC electrics would look a sight better than they do, if I were to fit catenary on the layout then I would set it just above the height of the pantograph and then there is no bother with it getting hooked up on anything.

I note that you are in Australia how would that work out with initial cost of the item and also postage costs?

Gibbo.

Thanks Gibbo

 

 

I'm glad you've said that, because when I look at Corbs's picture, I want to move the dome back for visual balance. If this is also technically correct, then so much the better.

 

This might be hard to reconcile with the clearance around the motor. But the accumulated feedback is going to result in quite a lot of re-design, so the least I can do is try.

 

The more I look at it, the more I think I am going to make two versions. An 0-4-0 for people who don't want to alter the chassis, and an 0-4-2 for people who don't like the overhang. Would the additional rear axle alter what you have said above, about the firebox placement?

 

Oh, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. For me, technical considerations trump design aesthetics not only because of common sense, but also because things that are designed to function correctly frequently end up looking best.

 

Well, I'd be grateful for your views on boiler bands. Am I right in understanding that they are not (as one might imagine) reinforcement, but rather to hold cladding in place?

 

I suspect that any raised boiler band would be significantly over-scale. If I choose half a millimetre, that corresponds to a piece of metal an inch and a half thick, whereas in reality they are thin metal straps.

 

So perhaps the most realistic approach is simply to paint them.

 

 

Thanks in advance

Tom

Hi Tom,

I like the trailing truck idea I can visualise it now that you mention it.

Regarding boiler cladding, there are three basic methods of cladding a boiler with steel sheets, in the early days wooden planks were banded onto the boiler to provide insulation, the bands were used like a giant jubilee clip.Soon after the wooden planks covered in 1/16" steel plates, because rain water cools the boiler, again the bands acting as jubilee clips. With the increase in boiler pressure comes an increase in the temperature of the the boiler wood being flammable this wasn't ideal and so to insulation materials such as asbestos matting, rock wool and aluminum matting the steel sheets being supported by a 5/16" steel frame known as a crinoline. The crinoline was bolted to snubs either riveted or welded to the boiler shell and the steel sheets were then screwed with counter sink screws to the crinoline, the boiler bands performing two functions, one to act as a big jubilee clip and the other to cover the joint lines between the cladding sheets on larger boilers. The usual maximum width of a cladding sheet being four foot. The third method as used by the GWR is to use a paste made from asbestos flake and plaster to a set depth over the boiler screwing the cladding sheets to it when dried and then attaching the boiler bands as with the others.

That was a lot for you read !

Gibbo.

I’m considering a newly built one, not recently shopped?

 

Tim T

Hi Tim,

Same problem I would guess different works different preferences, again back to locos on the LNER Doncaster had black cylinders and Darlington green with supposedly the same livery.

I visited Crewe works open day in 1975 and remember different shades of BR blue on the walls of the paint shop!

That's your lot I'm afraid !!!

Gibbo.

I thought I'd report on my long-running project to complete a Western Region Blue Pullman formation, using the Tri-ang models as a basis.

 

bp1.jpg

 

I started the model more than ten years ago, long before the announcement of Bachmann's 6-car rake. Would I have started had I known? Probably

not! But once I'd scoured ebay for the parlour cars, and obtained the various castings and etches needed to carry on, I was determined to finish

it anyway.

 

The basis of the conversion lies in Southern Pride window etches, and Chris Leigh bogie castings. Here;s a snap from early in the

work, taken in 2011. It shows one of the motor cars, with a pair of newly installed black beetle bogies. The end castings are from

Genesis, as although the Chris Leigh ones were good, I felt I could get slightly crisper results with these alternatives. In the end

my Leigh ends were donated to someone else's Blue Pullman project so hopefully they won't have gone to waste.

 

 

With some modest weighting, two black beetles are more than sufficient to propel the 8-car rake. Here's some further test-running.

when most of the carriages had been converted, and the Leigh bogies completed, including the cosmetic frames for the beetles.

 

 

At this point the intention was to finish the model in Nanking blue but I then decided to go for the later reversed blue-grey livery as it struck me that you didn't see many models of the BP in

this livery, and it would make a good contrast with the Bachmann model.

 

An extremely tedious process of priming and sanding then followed, as I tried to get a smooth, consistent finish across all the vehicles:

 

 

I found it a real swine to get the window inserts to sit flush with the sides - they were either too proud, or too recessed, leading to endless revision. Just when I'd got them right, they'd flex and

crack the primer/filler! Lesson learned. If I were doing it again, I'd fix them in place with araldite rather than the brittle superglue I initially used.

 

However, after much persistence (over a year of swearing and masking, painting, swearing, masking etc) I got the basic blue and grey on:

 

 

Although there was still a lot to be done, one thing I think it did show was how crisp the Tri-ang mouldings were for their day. The Genesis ends fit like a treat.

 

I then added the yellow ends, and there matters rested for a year as I'd run into a wall in trying to idenfity a source for the relevant decals:

 

 

Having found some decals, though (intended for repairing/refurbishing Tri-ang cars) it was time to crack on!

 

Over the last week I've finished some of the outstanding chores, such as completing the majority of the glazing

and adding interiors to most of the cars. I've also been able to test-run the complete rake as at last I finished

the trailing car.

 

 

Once I've completed a strenuous period of test running under DC, I plan to fit a sound decoder. A Warship one seems like a good bet, since I gather they used the same prime mover. Or does anyone have a better suggestion?

 

Still to be completed, besides sound:

 

underframe detail revision (the Tri-ang models all used a common underframe, so the parlour and kitchen cars need revision)

 

roof details on the kitchen cars

 

decals

 

windscreen wipers

 

possible interior and nose lighting

 

and then we'll be done!

 

Hope this is of interest.

Hi Barry,

Nice work with the Pullman.

The engine and traction equipment was the same as the NBL class 22's which being diesel electrics may sound right and were rather unfortunately also unreliable junk!

I cut and shut a Triang Pullman into a Midland Pullman using Lima class 73 bogies and modified MK2 bogies it is painted up in the original livery without the white around the windows over the kitchen areas. I didn't go to the  trouble of replacing the cabs though.

Gibbo

This question must have been asked on RMWeb before but a seach came up blankso here goes.

 

What colours were the ineriors of BR standard unfitted 20t brake vans painted?

 

TIA, Tim T

I think it depended on where they were last shopped, some were black lower half white top half, some bauxite lower half white upper half, others bauxite all over.

I do know for instance that Crewe painted tender lockers white and St Rolox with red lead so who knows what they got up to with paint?

Gibbo.

Thank you both very much, that is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for.

 

The mechanism does indeed dictate the boiler/firebox dimensions (and the height of the centre-line), but I may have been over-cautious. I might be able to shave off a millimetre, which could make a big difference visually.

 

I can see from the doctored picture (thank you!) that you're both right about the items on top of the boiler. I shall make these changes forthwith.

 

As for the smokebox saddle: I was certainly trying to achieve an appearance reminiscent of the Stirling Single (and many other Victorian locomotives). Since the cylinders are part of the chassis it wasn't too hard to do what I've done (valve chests incorporated into the smokebox saddle, cylinders left alone). I've just had a quick look on the internet for pictures of real locomotives like this, but so far I've found nothing.

 

It might be a little difficult to incorporate the cylinders into the smokebox saddle because of the precision required. A small gap could be obvious and ugly. Nevertheless, I will attempt iCo

Hi Tom,

I like an enterprising chap,

Corbs is right to put the safety valves over the firebox in his rendering, the only other position would be in the top of the dome.

The only comments I have are that

• The dome is too far forward, they are always fitted to either the highest point of the boiler on taper boilers or as with your parallel boiler they should be at the midpoint from the front tube plate and the back head, the reason for this is that is protected from surge under braking and water level variance on gradients.
• The front face of the fire box needs to be at least a foot (4mm) behind the rear axle as the fire box will be too shallow, look at a side views of black fives the originals had vertical throat plates and later ones sloping ones and how they look in relation to the driving axle. Granted the rear end of the firebox is above the rear axle but the front end is about level with the underside of the axle.
• The length of the rear frames under the cab seems a slight long, the two problems would be a seriously rough ride for the crew and fall plate issues on reverse curves.

I know its a made up model but if you take into consideration real life engineering challenges your model will look right and with luck be better for it.

If you have any questions on loco design then do ask I'll gladly assist where I can.

Gibbo.

I LOVE it! 

 

Just the sort of thing we'd have slung together from existing bits and pieces back then.

 

Perhaps as a 'Traction Test Unit'? We might have put it in a consist behind some poor unsuspecting loco or unit under test and run it in reverse to put extra load on the test loco.   

Hi Kit,

My thoughts were traction motor excitation test bed with all sorts of divert systems but its good to hear suggestions.

Gibbo. 

I like it! I hope it runs well. Can we see it hauling coaches, please?

Sorry, no layout at the moment. I donated the last one to Liverpool MRC when I moved house a couple of years ago which is the reason my photos are taken on a piece of track on the kitchen floor.

I certainly do and thanks. I wonder what that contraption is...

Found It !

This contraption is from the remainder of the HST power cars that I used to build a cut and shut class 89 I sometime around 1989.

It is in RTC red and blue and as it is from Derby it runs on class 25 bogies, who knows what the RTC would have used it for? Perhaps one of their boffins has suitable ideas about possible purpose.

Gibbo.

Interesting locomotives! I like the Q1-austerity pacific! Does that run well as well as the other locomotives?

Hi LNWR,

The austerity Bullied pacific is only a static although building a runner shouldn't present any problems, I would use one of the older Hornby models with the X04 motor. I have to say there are loads more jobs that need sorting out before building another one of those. I built a model of Tangmere, also from a Dapol kit at the same time for I was rebuilding the real one at the time when working at Riley's

The tri bogie runs fine although the centre bogie jumps off on reverse point work sometimes and the 58 is what it is.

I do have another parts bin contraption somewhere but it is in a box that I can't get to after house alterations, I shall post a pic when I get tidied up.

Pleased you like them,

Gibbo.

Here are my made up locos, although one is only a repaint.

1. A class 58 in BR blue numbered 58 001, I followed the paint scheme of the class 20's with the only deviation being the yellow cab side windows. I did it please myself as I do like the blue era stuff and I have got two in grey with red frames.
2. A tri bogie lash up from HST power cars supposedly for freight liner, block oil, sleeper or motor rail type trains. This loco is finished in protoype HST livery and the front end should have been steepened up a little bit although I do like the Warship style buffer beam.
3. This is a Q1- austerity style cladding as might have been applied to the light pacifics. There is a wooden mock up in the NRM and I have also seen photos of it in various books so a Dapol kit was suitably modified to suit.