Gibbo675
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Posts posted by Gibbo675
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HI All
Some pics of the one that was in Elgin Yd for years.
Regards Arran
Hi Arran,
Thank you very much for the photos, despite the faded paint they offer a much better angle of view and shew the lettering as it is, on the photo that I found it is indistinct.
Cheers,
Gibbo.
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Hi Folks,
I have been detailing my Hornby Freightliner flats of which I have nineteen and decided that three sets of five would be just the right number and was wondering what to do with my four spares.
After looking through various books and websites I decided to modify the four spares into the first of the then new type of Freightliner wagons built Shildon in 1964, numbers B601001/2 Outers and B602001/2 Inners.
Sites I have used are,
1. LTSV Wagon - Profiles; https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_018.php
2. Barrowmore's wagon diagrams; http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight1Issue.pdf.
The LTSV site gives details of building dates and numbering and the Barrowmore site shews a general arrangement diagram for both types of wagon with leading dimensions.
The book, Freightliner - Life & Times Series shews a ten foot box on the inner end of an outer wagon on page 99 and a 30 foot box on an inner wagon on page 100.
This first photo is of the position and arrangement of the cuts in the donor vehicle. I have removed the webs between the cross members to allow for a more accurate representation of the skeletal form of the originals.
After squaring the ends of the cuts up with a file lined the sides up with a steel rule and glued them up on a flat surface. After the glued frames had cured I added strips of .030" plasticard to make up the deeper side frames that the originals have over the model and the trussing to replace where the webbing of the original model had been cut out.
Some head stock reinforcing plates for the buffer ends of the outer wagons were made from .080" plasticard, these are 29mm X 12mm with a 45* chamfer on one end. The next job was to cut out head stock and buffer beams that were then glued to the ends of the wagons and at the same time added some vertical trusses between the cross members from .030" X .030" strip.
Here is the four wagon rake both light and loaded with some rather tatty continers.
I shall order some oval buffers and look at how I might fit some Keen system Buckeye heads that I have spare to the wagons in due course along with some details such as tanks, brake wheels and filling and painting.
Gibbo.
Having just uploaded all of the above I've just noticed that the Barrowmore diagram for the Inner Wagons is incorrectly dimensioned in that the wheel base and total length are three feet too long at 35' 0" and 45' 9", the dimensions ought to be as follows wheel base 32' 0", total length 42' 9".
I am currently altering the first of the inner wagons, fortunately I have some spare bits of off cut to remedially repair the Inner Wagons.
The discovery of the correct dimensions make the conversion easier and I shall describe this further as soon as.
Gibbo.
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Hi Folks,
I have been detailing my Hornby Freightliner flats of which I have nineteen and decided that three sets of five would be just the right number and was wondering what to do with my four spares.
After looking through various books and websites I decided to modify the four spares into the first of the then new type of Freightliner wagons built Shildon in 1964, numbers B601001/2 Outers and B602001/2 Inners.
Sites I have used are,
1. LTSV Wagon - Profiles; https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_018.php
2. Barrowmore's wagon diagrams; http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight1Issue.pdf.
The LTSV site gives details of building dates and numbering and the Barrowmore site shews a general arrangement diagram for both types of wagon with leading dimensions.
The book, Freightliner - Life & Times Series shews a ten foot box on the inner end of an outer wagon on page 99 and a 30 foot box on an inner wagon on page 100.
This first photo is of the position and arrangement of the cuts in the donor vehicle. I have removed the webs between the cross members to allow for a more accurate representation of the skeletal form of the originals.
EDIT:
Please note that there is an error in the Barrowmore drawings which I did not pick up and the description for the conversion of the inner wagons shewn immediately below is incorrect. The remedial repair to my mistake in following the wrong measurements is described further on in a separate post within this thread. The bonus of this is that it actually makes the conversion of the inner wagons easier than my first attempt described below.
Apologies for being a twerp !
After squaring the ends of the cuts up with a file lined the sides up with a steel rule and glued them up on a flat surface. After the glued frames had cured I added strips of .030" plasticard to make up the deeper side frames that the originals have over the model and the trussing to replace where the webbing of the original model had been cut out.
Some head stock reinforcing plates for the buffer ends of the outer wagons were made from .080" plasticard, these are 29mm X 12mm with a 45* chamfer on one end. The next job was to cut out head stock and buffer beams that were then glued to the ends of the wagons and at the same time added some vertical trusses between the cross members from .030" X .030" strip.
Here is the four wagon rake both light and loaded with some rather tatty continers.
I shall order some oval buffers and look at how I might fit some Keen system Buckeye heads that I have spare to the wagons in due course along with some details such as tanks, brake wheels and filling and painting.
Gibbo.
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Hi Mike
Did the trains depart before midnight? If so are they trains of the 3rd August or 4th August?
Hi Clive,
Nearly coughed my tea out having a good giggle at your post, my kind of pedantry/comedy !
However, it is rumored that the last goods train was worked by 45407, a loco I knew well, some time after August 11, the source was Joe Singleton who looked after the locomotive for both Paddy Smith from early preservation days at Carnforth and latterly Ian Riley.
Gibbo.
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Hi Folks,
With regard the demise of steam I spent over twenty years at Riley and Son's of Bury working on kettles of all shapes and sizes and I have to tell you when you look at what jobs were available in engineering and the rates of pay offered by the railways at the time I have to smile when I hear all the puffer-nutters waffle on about Bullied's working into the 1980's and 9F's running at 85 mph on Freightliner trains.
My experience of BR fitters is that most of them were not particularly happy working on the paraffin camels so kettles would have been right out of the window !
To have worked on steam even into the 1970's would have required the kind of commitment that I had to have to do my job from 1992 onward, I just can't see how a commercial enterprise such as British Rail would have retained enough staff to keep it all going.
Mention of the Modernisation Plan, of which the Beaching Report was only part of was not properly or indeed fully implemented due to the usual curse of political interference. I'm sure I've read somewhere that there were more diesels sent for scrap in 1967 than steam locos due to gross ineptitude in the requisition of poorly designed and conceived classes of diesel locomotive, most of which should have been obsolete should the Modernisation Plan been implemented as it was intended, ie. overseen by engineers and NOT bureaucrats and accountants.
All water under the bridge and like it or lump it, the railway's job is moving things from place to place in an efficient manner which is why goods traffic is mostly block container, oil, stone, etc. and passenger work is all units of some sort or another
Take a look at the Latin etymology of the word locomotive as pulled off the 'tintermunky; early 17th century (as an adjective): from modern Latin locomotivus, from Latin loco (ablative of locus‘place’) + late Latin motivus ‘motive’, suggested by medieval Latin in loco moveri ‘move by change of position’.
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Remember what happened to GF Fiennes. Nothing has changed.
Gerry Fiennes book is a good read and lays out well how complicated running a railway system actually is from the sourcing of traffic to the commissioning of infrastructure and stock to work upon it. All of the above takes a long time and huge investment and sometimes is almost out of date by the time it is delivered.
As the saying goes, if it was easy we would all be doing it !
The running of a railway fits this statement quite well.
Gibbo.
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Hi everyone,
Over the years I've seen plenty of models of LMS locos in a fully lined crimson livery; I've also seen some old photos that seem to show locos this way too. My question is, though, what classes got this livery, and how long did it last?
(This all started with a comment about a friend's Bachmann LYR tank.)
Thanks in advance for any help.
Regards,
Alex.
Hi Alex,
The set of books you need are, "An Illustrated History of LMS Locomotives" by Esery and Jenkinson.
Let me know what particular types you are interested in and I'll see what I can do as I have all five volumes. That's a lot of engines to look at even if you only want tank engines.
Gibbo.
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I think they were intended for Irish Sea services. Unfortunately, there's nothing that leaps off the page of 'Freightliner- Life and Times'. The box on the right might be one of the small batch, described as Type F1, 30' non-ISO full side door, numbers 62F50 to 62F54, as this is the only batch with full side doors, as opposed to curtain sides.
Thanks for the input, I have a copy of Freightliner - Life and Times also and as you say nothing obvious.
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I don't post much on here because I am not doing much modelling and I think I know why. The other day I posted the list below on Tony Wrights "Wright Writes" thread.
Peaks, I done all the different nose ends and sub variations before Bachmann
EE type 4, scratchbuilt, converted tri-ang 37
NBL Warship D600, converted Hornby 21
BR Warship D812, one of the early ones with disc head code, converted Mainlaine and D870, converted Lima
Brush 4, scratchbuilt, radiator variations, open radiator (still not done by any RTR company but check out photos of moving 47s) and a class 48 conversion
BR Type 2, all body versions converted from the Hornby model, scrapped a class 24 and 25 that I was scratchbuilding when the Bachmann introduced their's.
BRCW Type 2, all body variations converted from class 33
Brush type 2, early disc headcode from both Tri-ang and Airfix, tablet catcher version Airfix converted, two coupled with gangway connectors open and a scratchbuilt one.
Metro-Vic type 2 scratchbuilt pair
Baby Deltic, whole class scratchbuilt and loads of cut and shuts.
NBL type 2, all main body variations converted Hornby 21/29
NBL type 2 (baby Warship) Class 29 converstions
BRCW Type 3, Bagpipe and Slim Jim versions converted from Lima model
EE type 3 split headcode version from Tri-ang model, and scratchbuilt
Hymek, D7000, converted from Tri-ang model (D7000 and D7001 when new differed from the rest of the class).
EE Type 1, Wren model converted to 4 figure headcode version and scratchbuild.
BTH Type 1, loads of scratchbuilt models
NBL Type 1, not so many scracthbult
Clayton Type 1, some scratchbuilt
Detiic, stretched Lima, and an abandoned scratchbuild when Bachmann introduced their model
Swindon/Paxman Type 1, Kit built
DP2, Lima Deltic converted
GT3, scratchbuilt
Lion, Scratchbulit
Falcon, scratch
Kestrel, scratch
DHP1, abandoned scratchbuild, no longer fitted what I was modelling at the time.
10001, plastic card
10203, started life as a MTK kit, body and chassis replaced body scratchbuilt and chassis Mainline Peak.
What has happened is the RTR manufacturers have taken the challenge out of making things. Same list but with what has been produced by the RTR guys. I will only refer to locos in my modelling time period but I think you will see the picture. Red is what has been done, and blue to be done which I am sure they will do.
Peaks, Class 44, class 45 with centre and split headcode boxes, and class 46. Class 45 with split boxes and doors.
EE type 4, All sub versions of the nose types.
NBL Warship D600, Not yet but soon to be, again all variations to be made.
BR Warship One of the early ones with disc head code,and D870.
Class 43. not on my original list as I only renumbered Lima and Mainline class 42.
Brush 4, All main sub versions, except D1500 (radiator and cant rail grilles), D1501-09 (cant rail Grilles), open radiator and Class 48.
BR Type 2, Class 24, including pilot version, class 25 mid production body and late bodies. Announced late body class 24 (headcode boxes). D5018 and early body class 25 (but can easily be made from a late body class 24.
BRCW Type 2, All variations.
Brush type 2,All variations apart from D5834 and the tablet catcher ones.
Metro-Vic type 2 Available. I don't think it sold like they thought it would.
Baby Deltic.Available
NBL type 2, Updated versions announced, the EP models looked quite good.
NBL type 2 (baby Warship) Disc and headcode production versions have been done but not pilot versions.
BRCW Type 3, All variations.
EE type 3 All variations.
Hymek, Still no RTR D7000 or D7001
EE Type 1, All variations.
BTH Type 1, Yes
NBL Type 1, Yes
Clayton Type 1, Yes, Rolls Royce engined pair.
Detiic, .Yes
Swindon/Paxman Type 1, Yes
DP2, Yes
GT3, No
Lion, Yes
Falcon, Yes
Kestrel, Yes
DHP1, No
10001, Yes
10203, Yes
As you can see not much left to model and I don't think my bodging will ever match the skills of the Chinese tool makers.
Hi Clive,
You are quite correct, the RTR manufacturers have indeed made life very easy for those "out of the box types" to run a well stocked railway. I find it makes my life too easy though and it isn't fun when there is no challenge.
Opening a box is easy, could be a new engine or it could be cornflakes. Where's the challenge?
I have one of every type of AC electric, with the exception of the 86, 87, 90 and 91 all cut and shuts made from some Trix body shells I picked up at a show and two more from eBay plus my original that my dad got me second hand in 1973!
The idea of one of building or bashing every type of main line diesel is an ongoing project which is to be fair quite glacial in its progress at the moment but great fun and all my own work. The Current paraffin camel is the EE Co. GT3, which is a modified Golden Arrow contraption on a Bachman Std 4 chassis with a very old Hornby Britannia tender frame.
It is probably why I got the idea of building cranes for the fun of it especially as I have worked with the ex Ashford 75 Ton contraption that is at Bury ELR. Photos of cranes coming soon.
Gibbo.
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Hi Folks,
I have come across a photo of some BR Freightliner containers with blue stripes and would like to know if anyone has any information about period of service, what services they were used for and why the blue stripe instead of the more usual red stripe. There is a chance that there were a fair few of them in use but I haven't noticed them as a lot of late 1960's early 1970's photos are black and white and have assumed them to be red.
Does anyone have any better pictures available than the one I have found below ?
Many thanks in advance for what anyone may tell !
Gibbo.
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Oh, I wouldn't say they're ugly. They're definitely strange though; almost as if the designer had pretentions of being a main line railway designer. Everything is out of proportion - the massive boiler, and that Belpaire firebox? In a loco with cylinders of the same dimensions of a Peckett W4..
Is the motor you are using the N20 type and if so what reduction gearbox is it fitted with and would I be right in thinking the motors run at 12000 rpm when given the beans hence the reduction?
I should like to know as I thinking of attempting to motorise a Dapol Rocket kit with an N20 type that has a 1mm shaft without the reduction box and don't really want it doing 200 mph scale speed.
Gibbo.
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This is probably a very stupid question, but what did they sound like?
I do ask it for a fairly good reason. I have a Silver Fox body, and having looked at my Bachmann Peaks as possible chassis donors have seen that that they are built like the proverbial brick out (sh*t) house, so sawing off 19mm from the chassis would be a monumental task, as Rembrow said.
I think his suggestion of the Hornby railroad Class 40 is a great idea, ad with the TTS sound versions not being that much more (I want to chip it anyway), is it worth using one with sound as a donor?
I do have a couple of Bachmann 40's, but one is a 21 pin, and the older other unchipped, old body style, so they may not be the best homes for a TTS sound chip and speaker.
So back to my original question, what did the Bullied diesels sound like, is anyone alive who could give an opinion, or could I just say 'Oh yes, they really did sound just like whistlers' and cross my fingers behind my back.
Jamie
Hi Jamie,
This video should answer your question,
Gibbo.
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Be careful with the drawing in Tatlow. Be aware that some, e.g. the above said 45T Cowans Sheldon crane, have been distorted in printing such that the vertical and horizontal scales are different i.e. the wheels etc. which should be round aren't!
Cheers Bruce,
I know, I've had fun and games with some of the drawings which is a shame for the book is otherwise excellent. The cranes I have built, and part built so far, from the drawings in the book look right enough to me though.
Gibbo.
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Something's been puzzling me about wills.
Back in 2003 I was executor of my father's 2nd wife's estate. When she changed her will for the last time, she was 84. She had it witnessed by neighbours who were 87 and 89. (I didn't know this until after she died). Needless to say both the witnesses were dead before my father's 2nd wife died.
So my question 'what's the point?' If you can't question the witnesses as to whether it really was signed by the person stated, and they can't testify to her mental health and the fact she wasn't under duress, then why have witnesses?
As it happens I had to pass the work to solicitors as I lived 120 miles distant. They didn't give xxxx as to who the witness were or whether they were alive or dead.
Hi There,
Because you are nothing other than property to be conveyed, all is explained below;
The main gist being the application of the Poor Laws via your Birth Certificate.
Enjoy,
Gibbo.
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Hi Graham
Am I misrembering, or did you do a RM article on curves and versines? If so, could you advise which issue?
Thanks
DAvid
This is the book you need for laying out railway track. My copy was borrowed permanently, much missed.
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I keep hearing people say the jib is shorter than it should be on the Dublo Crain how much is it actually short by?
Hi There,
After measuring the drawing in Peter Tatlow's book Railway Breakdown Cranes Volume Two at 158mm the jib on the Cowans Sheldon LNER 45T crane should be 39' 6" from the jib foot to the main hoist pulleys on centres. I do not have a Hornby Dublo crane and so don't know how long its jib is to be found.
The above mentioned book is published in two volumes and is a quite brilliant asset for anyone interested in crane building with lots of drawings and all sorts of photos. Some of the drawings in the book are slightly off scale but may be compensated for by using wheel base figures and working in a conversion factor, although I did check the particular drawing mentioned and it is correct to scale.
Here are some of my crane projects built from the drawings in the book;
Cowans Sheldon 75 ton in both N an OO gauges showing jib foot articulation.
Same again shewing Stokes bogies and jibs removed also lifting beams.
Comparison with original Hornby and modified crane with new jib and other alterations.
Busy work bench with Cowans Sheldon LMS and BR Std 30 ton cranes part built.
Gibbo.
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Hi Gibbo
I can't confirm how the paint was applied (wasn't born then!) but I can confirm that the shade was Rail Blue.
In 2015 there was a serious proposal by FL (my employer) to restore an 86/6 to original livery, I was involved in this and took as many paint samples as possible from as many of the 16 we have, as I could.
In every case, the oldest coat of gloss was Rail Blue, and certainly not Electric Blue, as usually (and erroneously) stated.
Incidentally, we have the former E3102, E3103 and E3104 in the fleet.
Not only does this satisfy my number disorder (he he!) but they all still had traces of the red buffer beams beneath the current paint.
As expected, most/ all of the others I inspected had no trace of red in the buffer beam area, and were blue from new.
Hope that helps. I do have the details noted somewhere, probably in an old email while this resto was being proposed.
I got to most of the locos, a dozen or so.
Shame it didn't happen really.
Hi There,
I found this on Derby Sulzers about the livery carried by some class 25's that were shopped at Brush in 1966/7 where they were given a non standard blue, small warning panels and the early crest instead of the arrows. The date, the style of livery and the unusual shade of blue all seems to be of a similar mystery to the early class 86's and painting policy at that time.
There is a photo of D5218 about three quarters down the page.
https://www.derbysulzers.com/bluelivery.html
Gibbo.
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No, presumably that's the World's End layout...
The layout is David Forshaw's Burshaw North Western, the APT-E was built ny me as an experiment in N gauge, as I'm a OO man, and as a gift to David.
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Hear Hear Gibbo675. I know I have made it when others (who cannot show anything they have made, usually only what they have purchased) come up and take the mickey out of and sneer at what I have designed and built.
I think it is time for those who must judge to judge against the criteria of how much pleasure and satisfaction the item that has been built has given to the builder. Never mind "exhibition standards" this is a hobby and should be pleasurable and should be measured on those grounds.
I am just about to put on my tin hat, flak jacket and take cover to await the incoming.
regards
Ian
Ha! Ha!
I was somewhat bemused to be criticised for my APT-E not being up to the standards of ready to run by what may be termed an "out of the box" modeller. It would seem that the Pendelino was so much better.
It's not the end of the world though !
Gibbo.
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I'm content with what I do which is good enough for me.
That others may like my work is a pleasant bonus that while welcome is not sought.
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How do these devices communicate with the energy provider?
With a 5G milliwave frequency that is within a similar electromagnetic band that microwave ovens use but with not quite the same power.
It won't do your body much good in a way similar to the latest mobile phones that will gently slow cook you with radiation.
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Anatomy of an 0-4-0 tender loco, 00 gauge.
This photo of the underside shows a lot of detail, pick up on the loco wheels and the tender, one wire and the draw bar is a flat strip, which makes the 2nd connection, this is an L shaped strip of brass screwed directly to the metal of the metal of the tender drive and a tiny spring of brass pick-up strip to maintain contact between loco and tender.
The tender drive is a Triang motor bogie with new wheels and a gear slid onto the shaft. The motor is on a home made bracket, adjustment between the two gears is by placing packing material, layers of paper underneath it until the gears turn freely. It originally had a flywheel but this some how made it run worse, perhaps because the flywheel was outside the gear wheel perhaps it wobbled around too much.
You can see the white plasticard of the construction of the tender, to make up the weight a bit and give the drive a chance of pulling a reasonable sized train I have packed in as much lead sheet as I could.
The old Triang motor bogies were quite sophisticated with their central motor, removed for this conversion and drive to both wheels, the drive shaft has oil retaining bronze bearings.
Hi There,
I like your build and I also like the ingenuity of the locomotives drive, the period as it is a little more out of the ordinary also.
Gibbo.
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Dear All
Thank you all for the on-going feedback. I haven't been ignoring you - I'm on holiday and I've been away from the Internet.
@Neil: The closer I get to that Furness Railway locomotive, the happier I'll be. In due course I will buy myself one of the inside cylinder 0-4-0 tank engines, and I will probably end up producing versions of the tender engine for both chassis types.
Cheers
Tom
Hi Tom,
There is a book called Furness Railway Locomotives and Rolling Stock, by R W Rush that has a drawing of the Furness class A5 in it along wth all sorts of other old time locomotives and coaches.
Quite reasonably priced at £4.49 delivered !
Gibbo.
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Hi Folks,
The POP train features in this video, enjoy !
Is that Kit Spackman at 5:21 ?
Gibbo.
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Freightliner Prototype Flat Wagon
in Kitbuilding & Scratchbuilding
Posted
Hi Folks,
I have just re-worked the first of the Inner Wagons after discovering the Barrowmore diagram to be incorrectly dimensioned.
Fortunately there were some suitable off cuts to splice into the wagon once I had cut it into two pieces for the second time today. There two pictures show the drawings I made up from the Barrowmore diagram. It should be noted that the top drawing in the photograph should be ignored and instead use the bottom drawing for both the Inner and Outer Wagons the difference between the two being that the Inner Wagons have two ends with a 20mm over hang from the bogie pivot and the Outer Wagons have 20mm at one end and 33mm at the other end.
This photograph shews the newly modified Inner wagon between an Outer Wagon at the top of the photo and the incorrect Inner Wagon at the bottom.
If I had done my sums by looking at all of the dimensions on the Barrowmore diagram and comparing the with the information on the LTSV site I wouldn't have cocked it up !
Gibbo.