Otis JB

4 hours ago, maico said:

Looks like an excellent fine scale model

 

 

Gosh she just makes your mouth water doesn’t she? 

19 hours ago, Fen End Pit said:

Peter Tatlow's volume one (page 69) only has a photograph of the later 'Iron Mink lookalike' but has a table listing an earlier design which I suspect is your photograph. According to the table it was GN page/block 17/16, load 8 tones, body dimension 16-0x 7-8 and a 9'6 wheel base.

David

 

10 hours ago, Darryl Tooley said:

This photograph features as plate 89 in LNER Wagons before 1948 Vol 1  (Cheona, 2003), where the dimensions are given as 13ft 6in over headstocks with a wheelbase of 8ft.

 

Plate 91 in the same book shows another Great Northern gunpowder van, No 9268, which is one of the vehicles alluded to by Fen End Pit.  This is an outside framed wooden van generally similar to the contemporary ordinary goods vans (see p41 of the Tatlow volume).

 

D

Thank you both, I will be making a 3D model of this to print in the near future and this information is very much appreciated.

Regards

Good evening all just wondering if anyone could tell me what the chassis length of this vehicle would be? (Photo credits- David Roberts, Pinterest) 

Thanks very much!

On 03/11/2020 at 08:47, AY Mod said:

E85010 OO LSWR Beattie Well Tank with Square Splashers 30586 BR Black (L-Crest) 139.95
E85011 OO LSWR Beattie Well Tank 3298 SR Black (Sunshine) 139.95
E85012 OO LSWR Beattie Well Tank 3298 SR Green (Preserved) 139.95

E86001 OO LSWR 'Gate Stock' 2-Coach Set BR Crimson 139.95
E86002 OO LSWR 'Gate Stock' 2-Coach Set SR Maunsell Green 139.95

Before you all groan or put me in the stocks, this isn't a complaint or direct 'wishlist request' (as much as I would personally like to see it happen) but I would like to enquire about the feasibility of releasing these two models in their original (1894 rebuilt for the Well Tank) LSWR condition? There are quite a few models out there already like the T9, M7, Hornby brake van, not to mention forthcoming genesis coaches in LSWR guises so one would assume it's quite a popular avenue to pursue? Maybe there is some reason I don't know about such as different tooling requirements to explain why this hasn't been done yet but more LSWR models would really put a smile on mine and many others faces I'm sure.   

On 03/11/2020 at 08:47, AY Mod said:

 

7 hours ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Indeed! Feel SDJR stock is very much over due, especially with the popularity of the livery and the number of RTR models in SDJR too, compared to say LNWR (referring to number of RTR locos on the market) which is a livery due to be released in the first batch...

I agree, I am perplexed as to why LNWR is in Batch 1, as lovely as the livery is, when there is only one RTR loco to go with them and no more announced on the way. I also find it odd how the LBSCR wasn't originally proposed considering the sheer popularity of it. If it were up to me I'd move LSWR into Batch 1. We have two M7s, a T9, the Adams Radials and a couple of pieces of goods stock for a train on another line. Not to mention it looks like Hornby has plans to firmly stake its claim on the company with its announcements from the 2020 range...

On 13/10/2020 at 17:59, rovex said:

 

I suppose better that than being called "Queen Mary II"

Or indeed 'Titanic II' 

6 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

 

Or this review:

Oh no, sorry, that one doesn't support your contention. My bad!

 

 

Probably better to wait until you receive yours, run it on your layout, and then make a judgement. Since you have one coming, why jump the gun?

 

FYI that review hadn't been released when I commented  ... 

It definitely shows the models in a very good light but keep in mind they were review samples.

I only said I wasn't hopeful, I obviously can't predict the future, I just haven't been very lucky lately. Rails have been very good at returning and replacing Terriers when something's wrong but as I want to modify mine I'm worried about finding a fault after I start work. 

Anyway that's enough of that I won't presume any further... 

Kind regards.

On 01/10/2020 at 10:11, Edwardian said:

 

 

Indeed? 

 

First point, in reference to the D, as many readers are doubtless aware that D involves a different factory, and designer for that matter, from the Terrier, as has previously been made public. Thus, comparisons between the two products are not likely to have much relevance.

 

Second point, and I am by no means having a go, you have suggested that there are a number of known "decoration errors" with the Terrier's "complex decoration". That suggestion perplexes me not a little. Aside from some of the minor but necessary compromises that are entirely unnoticeable and of a kind found on all RTR models, I am at a loss to account for your view. The only thing I can think of is that the IEG ones have been delayed, as Rails have said, to ensure that they are right in this regard. Yet that is not a point against the models we will eventually receive.

 

I worry that the comment on 16th is a doubling down on that of the 15th, whereas a withdrawal of the original hasty remark might have been better. 

 

As a paying customer for these models, I have just as much concern about the quality of what gets delivered to me as anyone else.  While some apparently distorted livery application was a function of the bowing issue (which, as I recall, was then addressed), I do not think one can sensibly claim decoration as a weakness of these models. Rather, with the two complex pre-Grouping liveries I have received so far, I have no complaints concerning livery accuracy or application.  The same goes for the application on the holly green B4, which I also have (though I have no idea which factory produced those).  

 

To suggest that there is a known issue here is, I think, misleading and, hence, unfair. I sincerely hope that you do not think it unfair of me to point that out, and I hope you enjoy whatever purchases you make. 

 

  

Hello there Edwardian I hope you are well,

Forgive my very late response, I haven't visited RM in quite a while. 

Firstly I would like to state that I agree with you and your analysis and I am not offended in the slightest by your opposition, after all this is what discussion is all about. Reflecting back on my previous comments I see now that it was unfair to draw comparisons between the Terriers and the Ds, the proof will clearly be in the pudding and I was thinking and writing in haste, as I so often do. I also didn't know that they will be produced by different factories so that is something important to consider. I do have to say though, although your Terriers look very nice, there have been so many reports of defects and extremely shoddy quality (see the Rails Terrier thread here and Sam's Train video on YouTube for example) that I am not filled with much confidence for my soon arriving Terrier or future Dapol releases. There have also been many good Dapol release without problems in the past though I grant you so I will not suppose anymore but I feel like they are suffering a rough patch in terms of QC at the moment. 

I think I will remove those posts and not be so cynical before there is any reason to be from now on. 

Keep safe, kindest regards,

Otis 

On 17/09/2020 at 20:31, Budgie said:

 

I am going to apply Rule 1.

I'm sure I always do, if I mean to or not, no matter the situation! 

7 hours ago, Edwardian said:

For those impatient of the limitations of tampo-pad printing

Will this model be Tampo printed? I recall from Jenny Kirk that some manufacturers use something more advanced these days...

9 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Pointing out errors and reviews of issues are very valid and the sample size of the internet means we get a much better idea of the size of a problem. My issue is with the howls of we shouldn’t see this in a mass produced product, what do we base that on? Samsung one of the biggest in the world has made phones thats batteries explode and a folding phone that failed when folded! Any manufacturer can make errors in design or manufacture and has to make compromises to produce at a volume and price their market will pay. Considering the feverish pace of new models these days we are bound to get some things creeping through the process because their test model was assembled with more time and prepped to the full standards. Production models go through the hands of people just started at the company, someone who happened to have a drop of oil on their hands or wasn’t feeling well that particular day. So on top of any errors in spec that didn’t happen to show on the test you have random quality control errors which are unavoidable because humans are involved at design and production. The warranty is there to cover that and simply we need to check and test a model if we buy it to run it, over display, to make sure. Robot assembly won’t get perfection, they wear out and programs corrupt as proved by a friend whose paint shop robot sliced a new car roof in half! Certain eco friendly processes such as lead free solder have also introduced potential problems because the toxic materials were there to solve another problem so now we get more ‘dry joints’ I’ve had that affect what many would consider premium price models from Bemo. 
We have the information at our fingertips so we need to decide if their compromises and previous quality are worth our money. Keyboard warrior’ing’ doesn’t get far even with noted experts as demonstrated by a certain chap I knew personally on here, it didn’t come as a surprise to those of us who knew him and his bluntness wasn’t a problem in person but his passion and helpfulness didn’t come over well when he was in full flow on the keyboard  

Thank you for clarifying, Paul, I agree with you.

As a side note: I find myself relating to your friend more often than I would like sometimes! 

On 16/09/2020 at 07:48, Ian Hargrave said:

So please evidence this swipe .Which specific models are you using as examples ? If you are referring to steam outline OO....which is what this thread is about...at this moment you have a choice of two directly on the market: namely the B4 and the Rails Terrier.Otherwise this is a damaging and sweeping generalisation of questionable value.

 

 

 

- Post removed, explained later in thread  -

12 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I get quite frankly fed up with the constant jibes at people should fix every problem without consideration to why they can't. I will gladly fit sound / lights to my locos, build card structures, do scenic work, I am currently modifying a set of coaches to represent some of the Network Rail yellow fleet, making them as close to prototype as possible, but I cannot do the really fine work anymore. Does that make me any less a modeller? 

 

So before people have a dig with the "do some modelling", "fix it yourself", "it isn't hard" comments, perhaps they should try living in other people shoes (or in my case with their fingers) first.

 

Roy

I agree wholeheartedly. While I will not be swayed by 'small' omissions to the model as there clearly isn't any real alternative, I think it is perfectly fair to critique and point out flaws whether there is something better on the market or like in most cases, not. We are the people who will be spending our hard-earned cash on these items after all and sitting back and accepting what is served to us isn't in our best interests, or those of the manufacturer either. Circa £200 is a substantial amount to pay for any model, whether you think it is fair or not. I know that for circa £200, I expect to get a very good quality and accurate product that hasn't cut many corners and I won't be quiet about it if I don't think that's what I'll be getting. In my opinion, that's a more than reasonable expectation for the consumer to make. 

-Post removed, explained later in thread -

About the above, I wrote it while on the other page. I am as they say, late to the party! I apologise profusely if this sends us back OT again... 

On 05/09/2020 at 12:32, Compound2632 said:

 

I would suggest that the Rails SECR van has chipped away at that argument. 

 

Like with previous other things, I believe that many people bought the vans because they were so limited and the chance of owning something different and special made them see past their relative simplicity. If you are a BR modeller where box vans would all (theoretically!) look quite similar in a train with the same few liveries and markings, I would ask would you still buy the van if it was easy to obtain, not to mention if its manufacturer still wanted £30+ for it. I agree that the demand is definitely for pre-grouping items but I think the van isn't the best example. The dog takes the bone because of the lack of other bones. Would the dog still take the bone if it had other bones to choose from? Deep down, does the dog actually want the bone? Is this a silly analogy? Life's mysteries...

Out of interest, does anyone have any idea about how big the batch sizes were for the vans? 

Cheers!

On 09/09/2020 at 16:39, BlueLightning said:

Something looks "off" about the SE&CR version as a whole, I'm not sure what, but things I can pin down are, the red on the valances looks too bright, and the crest looks a mess (I assume this is much crisper in person?)

 

It looks totally different to the unofficial pictures that had to be removed the other day, which in my opinion looked much better.

 

Gary

Totally agree Gary, maybe it's their camera or something as some things look over saturated, namely the red valances which are much more of a brown colour in person. Similarly, on the most recent Rails Terrier email a picture was included of the Brighton variant where it looked an awful shade of brown ochre much reminiscent of the old plastic colour Hornby used to use on their classic terrier, so maybe it's that... I assume Edwardian's pictures were just done on a mobile so that will be closer to what we get.

As a side note - is anyone else a little apprehensive about Rails not deciding on a price and not planning to for the foreseeable future? I am quite nervous. 

On 31/08/2020 at 13:57, Nile said:

New Book Alert.

For those actually wanting to model the L&MR this might be useful.

L&MR An Operating History by Anthony Dawson (he wrote a recent article about the L&MR in Back Track magazine).

I am considering making a small diorama/display layout for Rocket (and hopefully Lion soon too ) in the form of Edge Hill Station and the famous Moorish Arch: 

 (images from Wiki) 

Fascinatingly, during my research for the structure I discovered that there are suggestions from certain groups to have a modern Moorish Arch built by 2030 for the bi-centenary of the L&M. I doubt this will ever go through though but nice idea, all that's left of the arch now are the steps on either side of it that you can see in the second illustration albeit hidden from public view. Just imagine the people who have walked down them... 

If I do decide to make this layout it won't be for a while but I will be sure to post about it on RM Web. That's not just to share mind you it's also because I'll need all the help I can get! 1830s art isn't really the most specific and or helpful for model making, the design, proportion and overall look of everything seems to change completely in each picture! 

2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Yeah linear wet dream for the manufacturers owned by investment banks  

 

Dapol and Rails have done some fantastic models at keen prices but I doubt anyone will call it a bargain  even compared to the exquisite Lee Marsh ones which will last a lot longer because of the materials used being more stable, not that I suspect most of us will see modern plastics suffer  

 

Interesting that you've said that, I thought modern plastic was the solution to all our prayers about the deterioration of models from by-gone companies. I have Mainline wagons from 30+ years ago that still look the part, do models have an unspoken, expected lifespan then? 

2 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

I  ASSUME  that, at least for a time, these would have been the premiere loco of the line and used for such things as special trains for foreign royalty and dignitaries travelling up to London from the Channel.

 

So a "perfect" condition loco is not really un-prototypical.

 

. 

 

 

I might also add that the crews probably enjoyed working on these engines and appreciated them enough to clean and polish them on quite a regular basis. I make this point because of the 'scrapped back' wartime livery where crews removed the grey paint to reveal the brass on the wheel arches, demonstrating that even in wartime the SECR cared about the looks of their machinery. Not that surprising when you think that they also painted and lined out every inch of their freight locos! 

1 minute ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

I so nearly bought one of those back when they came out. But quickly told myself realistically it would only really be a display model, and the price although fair for the quality of the model was high. 

They are in a class of their own... Working valve gear too I believe! 

5 hours ago, AY Mod said:

For commercial reasons I've removed the images posted yesterday for now; studio images will be available in due course.

:((

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I have de ja vu too.

If the coal bothers you change it. But without dirtying up the footplate, to me its nebulous changing it, just nit picking.

 

It would never come off shed with coal like that and a spotless footplate. But if displayed in a museum condition, it could. It looks more like museum condition than working condition.

So why does any pristine steam model come with a coal load in the first place if it's not prototypical? I am confused with your point, the coal is still very visible, dirty footplate or not.

The museum example doesn't have coal in the tender and as I assume all models, including those which aren't preserved, will have the same load isn't the museum point null? 

Just a thought,

Otis

5 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I understand why they come with plastic coal loads but I tend to agree with you about their look. 

 

Other than that I think that's a really lovely looking model. Not sure about the all the handrails being silver but that's easily changed. 

 

I also prefer the slightly tarnished look to the dome and safety valve cover, looking at this and then the Hornby H, the H looks a bit tacky, and they didn't do the safety valve cover in chrome. 

I'm in the same boat as you, I understand why the coal loads are there but no matter how good they are they never match up to the real thing so it is a pain when they are not easily removable.

I think the handrails are a bit too shiny but at least they are actually silver in real life unlike those on the LSWR B4 and others so no problem there...

On the matter of the high shine chrome finish I actually don't mind it too much on this model; if you look at the real loco at the NRM (which is what the model is basing all its' looks on) you can see the brass is in a similar condition. I didn't particularly like Hornby's rendering of polished brass on the H as they chose to use a completely different and quite matte paint on the safety valve cover.

The only real gripe I have with the model at the moment is how matte the green is. As they have gone for the 'museum approach' for the brass I think it is a bit miss-matched and it actually makes the colour look darker and less yellow than it really is. If it was up to me I would use something similar to Rapido's Stirling Single paint that makes the model look like it's really metal without being overly shiny or overly plasticy - a Goldilocks paint if you will! 

All things considered though, she looks absolutely jaw-dropping and with just 3 photos the vast majority of my faith in Dapol has been restored! I should really wait until my terrier arrives before being so hopeful but I don't care, I have faith this time (touch wood)! 

Otis

6 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

That does look very nice, but I hope that coal load is removable as it lets the model down, not looking very authentic. 
 

Roy

Looks like it will be with that big gap... I don't own any Dapol locos as yet though so I couldn't confirm it either way.

Otis