Otis JB

4 hours ago, friscopete said:

110 sounds cheap to me .What planet is everyone on ?.Are we all becoming spoiled brats addicted  to far too cheap Chinese labour.Every cheap deal has a hidden price .

Well I suppose it does compared to the likes of Bachmann and Heljan's prices but maybe not when compared with the competition. Additionally, if you take Hornby's new Rocket, while not perfect it effectively costs the same as these terriers if you estimate each coaches' worth at £20 (a considerably low estimate) which is quite astonishing considering its' size, detail and fidelity. Just because Bachmann values their new 0-6-0 at £130+ doesn't mean it's worth it.

On 07/07/2020 at 12:28, Edwardian said:

True, there are some legacy issues from the 7mm design.  I cannot say that I am a fan of this feature, either, but, then again, it means I do not have a late condition A1X backsheet on my A1, which I would have endured had I purchased the Hornby version. Besides, which, for my part, I'd rather fill and make good this area than, for instance, trim and sand and fill the wash-out plugs on Hornby's firebox, hoping I could manage a perfect finish and a good enough match with the boiler colour. 

 

It's hardly the end of the world.  While, of course, that might be coming, this isn't it. I do admire the ability of some to get very excitable about the small things in life. It surely shows a commendable sense of proportion that must help when facing down the existential threats to our existence. 

 

For my part, I'll be content if I'm still alive and not on a ventilator by the time the other Rails releases arrive. 

While of course I think we can all agree that there are much more pressing problems in the world today than the cab on the Rails terrier but you could say that about anything in the whole hobby of model railways and many other things too. This response irks me rather a lot as this is a railway modelling web and this is a pressing issue on this specific thread. Also might I add that if there really are things that mean that much more to you, then why are you taking the time to reply to me about this. Additionally, I never said I thought it was the end of the world, I just said that it is an awful design feature for a model that costs £110 and was advertised as 'the only terrier worth having', which I think is fair as do many others. 

Regards,

Otis

10 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

But there is a lead time that can't be shortened, yes the CAD may be quicker, but you still have to book time to cut the tools, review an EP, amend tooling, assess livery samples etc. Most of all, you have  to book a production slot in China, and that may actually be the critical path activity so even if you have the CAD, tooling and livery artwork ready, it may still take the same length of time. That is all before we consider impacts such as the Chinese New Year holiday, the loss of staff from that, factories being family run and shutting  without notice, COVID...

 

Yes it is frustrating but, as they* say, patience is a virtue. I waited a hell of a lot longer for my 4TC, Warship and I am still waiting for my 2HAP, VEAs etc.

 

*whoever "they" are.

Roy

That is a very interesting point if true. I don't know whether Dapol have their own factory or not, I thought that most manufactures did but if they are outsourcing that would explain things a lot more. I obviously don't know enough about the subject of manufacturing in China, I have based most of my analysis on Rapido's model of production as they are the only company who document what happens in the way they do.

I guess it could always be worse but that doesn't give me solace, it just makes me more unhopeful and dreadful. I usually am the optimist but not at the moment.

Thanks,

Otis

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

it would probably be hypocritical of me to say have patience, after venting my experience.
However after speaking with Oliver I feel much more informed now than I was, and in retrospect would have been more forgiving If I knew back then. 

 

Fwiw, My short experience, I still think the Rails one has the potential edge on the Hornby one.. The chimney, the wheels, print quality, firebox glow just feels like I have a better model. The Hornby one is nice, dont get me wrong, but a turned metal chimney on the Rails Terrier beats a painted one... its little things like that.

Admittedly Ive not been able to do a technical test, yet, or go into it as much as i’d like, but ..

 

Ive not canceled my preorders..

i’m still in for 2 more, and havent given out on the LBSC just yet...

 

Tooth paste is hard to put back in the tube, so I will be hypocritical.. and say have patience and await the rebooted Terrier.

 

 

 

Yes I agree that with more information that I would feel much better about the whole thing. I truly believe that Rails are trying their hardest to help and keep the customer informed and have just been let down again and again by Dapol. For me, the whole deal seems to look even worse due to the constant promises, I respect that Rails didn't know what was ahead when they made them and are trying to be helpful based on Dapol's info at the time but it is hard to believe them at this point. It has just been promise after promise after promise. I personally do not believe they will be here with us at the end of this month, whether that's because of a decoration error or an oversight in the electrics, something else will happen. 

I am still looking forward to my terrier and I can't do anything but be patient but this is crazy. If I knew about all of this at the start then I'm not sure I would have spent my money with this partnership. The dedication we have as consumers in this hobby is pretty staggering sometimes. We have all invested ourself into this model now and that is what I think is keeping us from going to the alternative more than the extra details. 

Thanks, 

Otis 

10 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

The factory is thousands of miles away, it is left to its own devices to carry out production, that is the modern way. Dapol / Rails will have approved a pre-production model, if the factory then the misses a bit off, that will not be spotted by Dapol until they get here. 
 

Riy

Thanks for the information Roy. I was under the impression that companies like Hornby were sent pictures along the stages of production and kept a close eye on what the factory was up to. Additionally, I know that Rapido for example definitely have a close relationship with their premisses in China as highlighted in their various entertaining update vlogs on YouTube. In my opinion, even it is the 'modern way' for most other companies including Dapol, it seems rather foolish just to leave the factory alone, especially as multiple faults have been discovered already with these models. I might also say again that this model has already been made once by Dapol in 7mm and yet it's still taking this long. The time from announcement to production (for the first batch not including the time to rectify mistakes), was longer than the time it takes to create many models that have never been made before in RTR in any scale. 

Otis 

33 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The word used was "defect" (albeit unspecified) not "error" - so quite possibly a production issue rather than anything wrong with the design work.

 

Not Rails fault, but quite possibly nothing to be laid at Dapol's door, either. 

 

TBH, I'm in the "wait and see" camp, I'm not overly impressed with Hornby's effort (though it's not as bad as I originally thought). Could be I don't bother with a 4mm Terrier at all....

 

John

 

 

 

Thanks, I suppose that is something to keep in mind but it is rather frustrating as a decoration error has already been found and supposedly rectified once before. I still find it very confusing how no one noticed such a thing had happened again unless the factory is left to its own devices to carry out production.

I agree with you about the Hornby terrier, it's nothing to shout about but when you compare it with Rail's described offerings it looks much more tame than the so-called 'pedigree'

Otis 

Hello fair people of RM Web,

I have been following this thread for well over a year now and have had a DCC ready Brighton Gold Medal terrier on order since September but never felt the need to comment until now. I'm sure I will get some negative feedback from what I have to say but it is what I think and I'm sure you can understand that I am very frustrated. 

Many of you waiting on the outstanding terriers like I am are probably already aware of this message that has been on Rail's site since Monday but I will attach it here in case you are not: 

UPDATE 29/06/20

Delay in Terrier shipment.

A small defect has been found with the bodies on the next batch of our Terrier models. As a result, Dapol have instructed the factory to remould and re-decorate the affected models. This has unfortunately resulted in a short delay in their shipment to the UK. Whilst this is regrettable we feel it is best for all concerned that the time is taken to correct the issue now and we look forward to being able to dispatch your models to you as soon as they arrive. We expect to take delivery of the models towards the end of July (subject to us approving the new production samples)

Now I completely and wholeheartedly understand why the delays related to shipment have occurred but another error? Really?! I thought Dapol knew how to make proper models and that was why Rails had trusted them with so many of their exclusive projects and I thought that Dapol had basically made this model once before in 7mm, making the OO variant just a simple matter of scaling down? This clearly isn't a 'small defect' as described in the above message as it has warranted a complete remoulding and redecorating of every model, something which I believe has already happened once before not to mention an electrical fault? I must ask who on earth is in charge of QC at Dapol? I understand that people from the UK can't fly over and meet with the factory and see the product in person but other companies are seeming to manage despite the circumstances - Hornby as described on their Engine Shed blog, for example. It seems truly baffling to me that no one in the whole factory spotted a 'minor defect' that lead to a complete remould and redecoration? I don't know about you but that doesn't scream competency to me. As I have also ordered an SECR D, which is being produced by Dapol-Rails too, I am wondering whether I should just cancel it now and wait until Hornby announce it? 

They say patience is a virtue but they also say all things in moderation. I remember when the terrier was promised for Warley. Then it was Christmas. Then the virus interfered which was completely out of anyones hands so no complaints there, but then it was promised for March. Then it was June. And now it's July (conditionally). July doesn't sound awfully convincing now when you put it like that does it? 

The more this project continues, the more it seems to decay. I'm not sure how many of you have seen Matt from BluebellModelRailway's review of 643 on YouTube:

and later his great conversion series of the model from 643 to Fenchurch, but they both highlight some very profound and un-ignorable issues on the model. For example the awful gap on the roof (so the back of the cab can be exchanged easily for different versions), a truly awful piece of design if you ask me. Additionally I have seen many of the 'horror stories' of issues on this forum such as bent running plates (something which seems like more of an achievement considering they're made of die cast metal!) 

Let me put it this way, if I didn't already have one on pre-order which version do you think I would choose? The one that's significantly cheaper, quieter, does what it says on the tin, maybe slightly more generic but will arrive with me in two days or the one that's more expensive, has cosmetic issues built in, will likely arrive with extra faults and will arrive with me in heck knows how long? 

I don't blame Rails for these issues and I want to make that very clear. I think they must be feeling even worse than I am about their Terrier knowing the alternative option already on the market. I do like Rails a lot and it's sad to see this venture hasn't worked out as planned for them, they are trying to do new things and serve the customer well, which usually they succeed in doing, I guess it just didn't work out this time.  

Anyway that's my ten cents on it,

Cheers,

Otis