Otis JB

On 26/08/2020 at 13:17, Hattons Dave said:

Hi all,

We're heading West for today's set of colour layouts, showcasing the Hattons Genesis coach releases in GWR chocolate and cream.

You can view full images and place orders via the link below:

 

Hattons Genesis - GWR colour layouts.

 

As always, I'm interested in any feedback so feel free to share your thoughts here or via the Disqus tab on our website.

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

Bloomin' splendid Dave, thanks! 

On 25/08/2020 at 12:13, PhilJ W said:

Not necessarily so, certainly not in the diecast market. For every camel coloured coat a diecast model will sell in hundreds if not in thousands. A lot of other factors come in to play as well such as changes in the production line since the original model was produced. Also production facilities in China are booked well in advance so its not that easy to produce a second run. Its hard for manufacturers sometimes to predict demand so they tend to over order. With production costs so low they can afford to do so with sufficient profit on the first sales to make it worth their while. A prime example of this practice is the London Transport Museum shop. They will stock an item and say order 120 of that item. They expect to make an overall £500 profit on the sale of those 120 items so they 'mark up' each individual item by £5. Once 100 have been sold they have made their profit and the warehouse space is required. If the price they were sold at was £50 just to get rid of the stock they would sell the items off at knock down prices, £50 could be cut to as little as £10. Last year the LT museum sold off a number of Heljans Metropolitan Bo-Bo locomotives at £34 each and earlier this year they sold off the 'S' stock models at a very low price, less than £100 IIRC. Now both those models are selling at ridiculous prices, just check on e-bay.

£34 for a Bo-Bo?!?! That's less than the RRP for Hornby's ubiquitous 0-4-0s! I am in disbelief...

On 24/08/2020 at 20:45, barrymx5 said:

Interesting Otis. No concerns about 6 wheeler running reliability then?

I believe that Jenny Kirk conducted a Hattons interview about the Genesis project a few months ago where she brought up the potential issue of the middle wheel. The Hattons interviewee replied that they were going to use a pivot mechanism that had already been successfully utilised on some continental HO models, or so I remember. 
 

I had actually forgotten about the potential issue of a middle wheel set although I have recently filed down the flange on the middle wheels of my Hornby LMS milk tanker Because of previous issues so I should really take the possibility of poor performance into consideration. That being said- I still want them all! 
 

Regards,

Otis

On 23/08/2020 at 19:21, barrymx5 said:

Like many following this thread,  I registered my interest in various liveried versions soon after they were announced.  Ok so now the models are getting closer to being available and certainly impress me, I have at last placed a firm preorder.  

 

After running problems over the years with various 6 wheelers (Stove R, Palethorpes etc) I decided my first purchase would be a Southern  green 6 wheeled full brake. My thinking is that  this model would look good with various LSWR and SR coaches in my collection. if this model runs well I will proceed to order a couple of the 4 vehicle sets in various Southern liveries.  if it does not I will try an individual 4 wheeler.  
 

What are others doing? Preordering individual models or going for the better value sets? Am I being unduly cautious about running problems with 6 wheelers? Interested to hear views now delivery is getting closer. 

regards

Barry. 

 

For me it honestly depends on when I have the money. I am interested in a number of sets and would like to order each company version in a good number instead of individually ie: probably buying the sets of 4. To be honest though, the Genesis stock isn’t high up my priorities list at the moment with a Hornby W1 and various bits from rails already ordered. I, unlike some others, am not too worried about the availability of these coaches as I think (although I can in no way confirm) that they will have a big enough batch to last a good while. Hopefully they will be continually produced as a standard product also unlike the Andrew Barclay and P class. I think there would be more than enough demand to sustain that production model especially with the steady increase of pre group RTR. 
 

Kindest regards,

Otis

On 23/08/2020 at 13:20, wainwright1 said:

P.S. Forgot to say that I hope to be visiting the Island again in October and the steam railway.

Will be pleased to see what progress they have made with the Oldbury's.

 

All the best

Ray

I live on the island and have seen the gradual restoration of the oldbury that is up and running right now. It really is rather splendid, the stained glass top windows are a particular highlight. I wasn’t actually aware of a second oldbury but I only visit a few times a year so I don’t know the ins and outs of the stock there. Anyway, have fun on your trip!

Otis 

On 21/08/2020 at 11:58, Compound2632 said:

 

There is the Bachmann Coal Tank - this class were extensively used on passenger workings as their brakes were inadequate for goods trains. From a suitable distance, the 4-wheelers might pass as 28 ft stock. They are at least the right length!

Oh thank you I wasn't aware of that! If I ever get the time I suppose there is always the option of London Road kits too. The good thing about making kits of LNWR locos is that you don't have to worry too much about intricate painting and lining! 

Otis 

( (A very short!) Part 2)

Hello again, seems like just a few seconds since last I saw you! Anyhoo, on with the last bit:

To achieve a successful repaint of the pipes, I first had to attempt a very complicated masking that involved pushing, prodding and pulling a bit of foil and some masking tape between the very tight gap between the tube and boiler. The finished result of that looked like this: 

And some photos of the final piece, sorry the lighting isn't great and yes that is carpet running before you tell me off! - Sometimes I like to have a long run for my stock and as my house is very small the only option is the sitting room. Oh well, hasn't destroyed the globe just yet!   : 

In conclusion I am very, very pleased with myself! It was a fun challenge that really paid off in my opinion; it elevates the model's appearance much more and therefore my enjoyment of it. 

Let me know what you think. Will you do the same? Have you done the same? Do you think I'm insane for modifying such a pricey object and probably hurting its' retail value or do you think I'm just a little mad for doing so!? 

Kindest regards, 

Stay safe,

Otis

Hi all,

After finally setting enough funds aside, I bought the standard Rocket pack from Kernow last week (all I'll say about the price is: thank goodness it was still at RRP!) I immediately became infatuated with the tiny, spritely little yellow creature, by some miracle, I received a model with no motor issues at all! With just one pair of drivers she managed effortlessly to haul herself and her stock up the gradient that has failed my 2014 NRM Hornby LSWR M7 with a smaller than average train multiple times. However, despite her charm and performance, I was a little confused about some of Hornby's design choices so I, like any modeller foolish/brave enough to attempt customising a model worth more than the Hope Diamond, I decided to take matters into my own hands. Rather in fitting with all these interesting tinkerings from Butler Henderson above, I present you with a post of my exploits:

The first 'niggle' I had with the Rocket was its' connection between loco and tender. I found the wires on my example were too long for the gap and made the tender a bit unpredictable when running on certain sections of track due to the pressure they were exerting onto it. 

You can see in this image how much longer the wires were than the gap they needed to span:

So, I set about prodding and bending them into submission which is much harder than you think at this scale, even more so  when you consider that they also have a layer of 'binder goop' on them to stop them moving around and possibly undoing their soldered connections. Soon the inevitable happened and a wire came loose but I managed to solder it back though and eventually, I moved the wires into more suitable positions so they were straight where the gap is:

Then, I fixed Hornby's bizarre choice of coupling between loco and tender: the pin with slide off drawbar. A number of other engines have this extremely odd arrangement, one that comes to mind is the Bachmann City Class and just like the Rocket, it has wires between it and its' tender that are very delicate and vital for running. These wires also show that the models weren't intended to have easily removable tenders yet their designers make their drawbars very easily removable none the less, putting unnecessary and unwanted strain on those delicate wires when disconnected. Anyway, rant over! - As with my City, I solved this problem by cutting out a small scrap of plasticard and super-gluing it over the end of the pin to stop the drawbar sliding off in future. That looks like this:

The next thing I did was again very straightforward and something I do to all my models which is adding a load of real coal. Fake coal is probably my biggest peeve with RTR models behind pre-grouping designs that are only produced in era 3/4/5 guises. Now I understand that the Rocket actually originally burnt coke as she was required to 'consume her own fuel' meaning that she effectively had to be smokeless but as I didn't have any of that I used my usual crushed household coal: 

Lastly, my most exciting changes to the model: 

When looking closely at the detail above the firebox I noticed that it was extremely unrealistic and didn't really match the model's other parts that were supposedly meant to be made of the same material in real life. Then after consulting various photos of the Rocket replica I discovered that the parts that are painted a light, plastic-y silver (such as the con rods) are black in reality and the dome and pipes on the side of the boiler are much more of a copper colour than the brass shade that Hornby used. That's probably because they are in fact, copper!

I'm not sure why Hornby made these choices, especially as they went to the effort of blackening the metal rims of the wheels but luckily it was an easy fix that just required a steady hand...

Repainting is a daunting task on any model, let alone one of this rarity and cost. Thankfully the modelling gods smiled upon me and everything went astonishingly smoothly. I busted out the Phoenix Precision and created a sort of black wash that allowed some of the silver to come through a little. That turned out like this:

Next I set about turning brass into copper but as I have run out of file size space, I will continue this in part 2! (PTO) 

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

In terms of roof profile, the Genesis carriages do not match that of the Great Northern and North British. It is appropriate for the 1880s/early 1890s style of several companies such as the LSWR and GWR that later adopted a multi-arc or cove roof style.

 

In terms of panelling, they don't match the carriages of those companies that had a three layer panelling style, such as, again, the Great Northern and North British; or those with a style that had square corners for at least some of the panelling - notably the Great Eastern - or those that adopted the "Wolverton" style of panelling without separate eves and waist panels - LNWR, South Eastern/SECR, Furness, North Staffs.

 

In terms of both panelling and roof style, they could be considered representative of 1880s/early 1890s carriages of the Great Western, Midland, North Eastern, LSWR, LBSCR, Cambrian, Caledonian, and other lines, without being exact models of any of these.  

 

So I think it's evident that the design of these models is "generic" in the sense of being typical of the majority. I also think it's a mistake to argue for further body variants that are closer to, say, the GNR or LNWR styles, as these would still be inaccurate models in many respects, beginning with length. Better to hope that what Hattons are doing will demonstrate that there is a market for pre-grouping rolling stock, encouraging other manufacturers (or indeed Hattons themselves) to venture into the field of accurate models of specific prototypes to go with RTR pre-grouping locomotives. 

 

For instance, one could fantasize that the manufacturer of a LNWR Improved Precedent would follow through with a range of LNWR 42 ft non-corridor stock. 

Thanks for the info Compound and my thoughts too. Hattons really are to be applauded and you cannot complain about what they are doing. You can't have everything either! 

Speaking of the LNWR, it's a shame that there really aren't any suitable RTR models to go with these new coaches. In my opinion, I find it strange that they were decided to be released in batch 1 as the majority of people who would have use for them, those with LNWR locos ie: kit/scratch built, would presumably already have kit/scratch built coaching stock. If I were Hattons I would've put the LSWR coaches in their place in the project as there are at least 4 RTR models for the period in the market atm. (I'm probably a bit biased situated in former LSW territory though!)

Kind regards,

Otis

Hi everyone,

Firstly I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate Hattons on their absolutely fantastic work with these CADs, they really do look the part, however I do have a slight concern about this project...

From what I have seen of these CADs, the overall body shape very effectively resembles almost every pre-group company's coaches except those of the GNR. The whole look of these coaches just doesn't resemble what the Northern built to me at all. To illustrate what I mean I will insert some images: 

Now I am definitely no expert in anything, even less of one in the in and outs of old coaching stock but by no stretch of my imagination do the Genesis vehicles match the real life GN examples. The two styles are clearly too different from one another in my mind, the Northern stock has different windows, roof fittings, end windows and such a contrastingly distinctive shape (one that is shared somewhat by the stock of the LSWR too). I believe the GNR never made anything similar to the Genesis style at all but I am obviously not knowledgeable enough to confirm that, if anyone could that would be much appreciated.

I wonder if it would be too difficult at this stage to add in another couple of bodies to the project, this style could also be utilised to create other companies' coaches ie: the LSWR and Metropolitan but alas I assume the ship has sailed? 

I want to make it clear that am I a huge supporter of this project and can only applaud Hattons for finally stepping up and serving us often neglected 'era 2-ers'. They obviously couldn't incorporate every style of coach into one, especially when there is this much and this sort of variety. I just thought that as they are producing a GNR set in batch 1 I'd share my thoughts and maybe nudge Hattons (or any other manufacturers reading for that matter!) to go the extra step for those of us interested in the GNR. There are of course many models that would be suitable for these and if a coach as obscure as the LSWR gate can be made successfully (and without appearing in pre-group colours that would have arguably been more popular than the SR variants) then maybe these can too. As a side note, I remember Rapido writing in their somewhat short novel of an instruction booklet for the Stirling Single that came out a few years ago that they would possibly make suitable period GNR coaches to go with their beast. Maybe someone could remind them?

Anyway, just my thoughts, if anyone has any info or opinion about this so called 'issue' I would be very interested to hear it.

Kindest regards,

Otis

16 hours ago, Chris116 said:

The Caledonian coaches are in batch three.

Thanks Chris!

Have Hattons announced any Caledonian Genesis coaches? I could've sworn they had but I can't find anything on it...

Cheers!

5 minutes ago, Legend said:

i was always disappointed it wasn’t Hornby that we’re making it . If they announced it now they might still beat the Rails/Bachmann one . The 812 class is prime candidate because it wore Caley blue , not sure any other 0-6-0s did. Of course it’s also preserved which helps.  But a Cardean.........mmm that would be nice . I do remember you could make a Gem kit using the Triang B12 chassis . Way beyond me , but I’m sure someone made these Gem kits . 

The want is strong for a Cardean... Any manufacturers listening? 

P.S. Hornby if you're here Lion would go very nicely with Rocket...  You could do a Titfield Thunderbolt tie-in set too... 

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The Caley was a major company and a national level player in pregrouping days, and has, I agree. not had sufficient serious attention from the trade, though the production of the single and accompanying coaches by Triang was pretty left field in it's day!  I do not regard Smokey Joe as a serious model and would like to see it produced with a bit more detail and proper motion, not to mention correct size driving wheels (if only so that I can use the mech for something else), but don't think there's much chance of that ever happening sadly.  But an 0-6-0 and one of the 4-4-0s are good choices; we'll probably get 'Cardean', though!

 

As for west of the Severn Tunnel, firstly, there are many items of RTR from this area relating to the GW, which was by any definition a pregrouping railway in the area.  The LNW came down to 9 Mile Point and it's locos and stock worked through to Risca and Newport, and also to Merthyr High St via the Heads of the Valleys line from Abergavenny.  Swansea Victoria has been alluded to, and the company kept a loco and a crew for it, the Earl of Dumfries (one of the titles held by Lord Bute) at the Rhymney's (period spelling) Cardiff East Dock shed, to shunt a warehouse they owned on Tyndall Street; the shell of the building is extant converted to yuppie flats.  I think the loco was a Ramsbottom 0-6-0ST with a weatherboard and no enclosed cab.  The LNWR pretty much owned the Rhymney, having baled it out when it went close to bankruptcy after problems building Caerphilly Tunnel in the late 1860s.  

 

It is possible without finescale or scratchbuilding skillsets  to build a 00 layout set in the pre-grouping era in South Wales using GW, LNW, and Midland RTR locos and stock, and one could add the 45xx' that were sold new to the Rhondda and Swansea Bar which ran in their livery until 'repossessed' at the grouping. and the 31xx' lent to the Barry to work the Cogan branch, which I believe ran in that company's livery for a time.  At Swansea the Midland intruded, with a terminus and shed at St Thomas, locos being 1Fs and 1P tanks, available RTR.  In BR days there were L & Y pugs working on Swansea Docks.  2721 pannier, Dean Goods, Dean Single, City/Atbara, Saint, Star, Churchward County, 28xx, 42xx, 45xx, 4575, 31xx (some work needed to 'backdate' from 5101/61xx condition), gangwayed and non-gangwayed GW clerestory coaching stock, pre-grouping Toads, LNW G2a and Webb Coal Tank, Midland 1F and 1P are available, and an excursion into relatively easy kit building provides GW 4-wheel, LNW, and Midland coaches, and 3D body prints for saddle tank versions of the 2721, and for 517 class 0-4-2Ts using a 14xx chassis.  A variety of suitable goods and PO mineral stock of variable credibility is available, much of the PO being in South Wales liveries, and can be extended by using easy kits.  And there's the Kernow steam railmotor!

 

Oh, and since we've mentioned Smokey Joe, there is the Dowlais Ironworks inside cylinder 0-4-0T as well, and if we've opened the can of industrial worms, a good level of Peckett W4 and B2s, Andrew Barclay, and Hunslet 18½" working in the area, some of which still are as Ian is in a particularly good position to know!  

 

The point I suspect Ian was making is a highly valid one, though, that there is no RTR support whatever for the 'independent' South Wales pregrouping railways even in the form of post grouping liveries; the Taff Vale, Rhymney, Brecon and Merthyr, Neath and Brecon, Cardiff, Pontypridd Caerphilly & Newport, etc, which between them owned a very large amount of stock some of which lasted will into BR days and offers manufacturers the chance of GW rebuild bodies on chassis' produced for them.  It's not just South Wales, the Cambrian is excluded as well, and not just Wales; what about the North Stafford, Highland, G & SW, GNoS, Hull and Barnsley (ok, there are the Triang vans, allegedly), North London, LT & S...

I'm sure the Caley will get more models in the years to come, mainly because of its elegant blues and lovely designs... A Cardean would be splendid I agree but I'm not sure who would take it up. Maybe one of the smaller, newer companies like KR? Anyway, while there are many models I'd like more, there aren't many that say "Hornby" more than a pug in my opinion.

Regards,

Otis

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

68095 is a NBR G Class/LNER Y9 and the one on the right is an "Industrial" version which I think is the oldest surviving member.

 

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/neilson-co-works-no-2203-ncb-no-13-kelton-fell-0-4-0st/

 

These and the Caledonian ones are the same basic design which was originally built by Neilson & Company.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBR_G_Class

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Railway_264_Class

 

My main reason for pointing that out is if you are going to do one to modern standards you might as well make the other as well. The main difference is the cabs.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Thanks for the info, Jason. 

If someone were to do a pug I'm sure an NBR version would be made eventually as the model would need to have the capacity for interchangeable cabs for the Caley-built versions as it is. It would also make sense to tool up for one as Hornby already have an NBR loco in the form of Maude and Oxford make NBR wagons so it would 'have company' so to speak. Additionally, I'm sure its livery would incise many as we've seen with the likes of the GCR D11 and the SECR C. 

Regards,

Otis

1 hour ago, jcredfer said:

 

Have a care, Otis, with only millimetres to spare, the back-blast down the chimbley might set fire to the driver's trousers!!

 

Julian

 

Haha will do thanks Julian!

Otis

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Nah. These are better looking.

 

Wow I don't remember seeing those before! I suspect that is what you call a 'Marmite livery', I can't decide whether I like it or not, 68095 rather resembles a steam roller to me in those colours. Certainly very interesting, I suspect many would buy a model of something like that as a curiosity piece if nothing else...

5 hours ago, Legend said:

For years Caledonian modellers have been starved of locos because of the presence of the 0-4-0 pug and 123 4-2-2 . Which I’m sure Simon Kohler believes is the Caledonian modelled . While the pug would be a desirable wee model I’d much rather have a Dunalastair 4-4-0 or a later version that made it into BR Black ( that seems to be a factor) . Imagine a nice 4-4-0 in Caley Blue, LMS red, LMS black and early BR black . Will go well with the Rails /Bachmann 812 class 0-6-0  when it finally appears . 

Yes that is a good point, I never thought of it like that. Strange though that no other manufacturers 'picked up' Caley models until recently as they have such a huge following. I totally agree with you, I too would much rather have something more 'substantial' but I think as an updated model for Hornby's anniversary there could have been little better. I already have the 'as preserved' 812 on pre-order and will probably get the 'as built' one if it's a different livery. I have a suspicion it will look like this:

Can anyone confirm this? 

Thanks! 

Hi all,

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned here before but it came to me the other day that Hornby has really missed a trick in not producing a newly-tooled super detailed Caledonian Pug. Like the Rocket, the pugs have been a staple of the range for many years and many people can identify with them, not to mention there are a whole host of liveries and variants spanning from the 1880s to the 1960s - most modellers would be quite pleased! They could of course also produce the famous 'tenders' to go with the models. Here are some images of Caledonia Railworks's digital pugs for the Train Simulator video game; they give a great sense of what the models could/would look like. Also, who knew the Caledonian had a lined black livery? I certainly didn't!  Anyhoo:

You can see what the pug tenders might look like in the two pictures above:

I can understand why it was not done seeing just how much they have already bitten off and I certainly can't complain as it is a fabulous range but I think it would have been a great model to tie into the centenary theme and ethos. Anyway, never say never, I didn't think I'd ever see a super detailed Rocket! Do you agree or disagree? Let me know, I'd love to hear your two cents on it!

Cheers,

Otis

18 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I can tell you it's 60mm from the railhead to the top of the chimney crown. You'll have to work the answer out from that. 

Thanks a bunch Andy, it will fit with millimetres to spare!

Cheers,

Otis

Hello everyone,

I feel a fool to have tried to ignore this model and restrain myself from purchasing it when it was announced, I just have to get one now. Can anybody let me know if it will fit in a standard OO Picture Pride display cabinet with glass shelves please, alternatively does anybody know whether it's taller than a Hornby A1 as mine just fits in with a centimetre to spare? - It won't dissuade me from getting one if it doesn't fit but I am curious to know especially considering I have a few weeks to wait before I can afford one!

Many thanks and kind regards,

Otis 

On 12/07/2020 at 17:46, Roy Langridge said:

 

I have a Rails one on order and I will still get that as I am from the school of not cancelling pre-orders. But, as it stands this will be my only Rails one and that cab has a lot to do with it.

 

Right at the beginning I pinned my colours to the Rails mast and decided that the Hornby one was not for me. However, with the improvements since made by Hornby, and with what we are seeing with production Rails version, I now have two Hornby Terriers on order. Yes, I still believe that it is slightly inferior, but the Rails offering no longer offers me value for money given its deficiencies.

Roy

Exactly what I've been saying this whole time!

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
And “your opinion “ which has taken wings over the last few weeks is getting perilously close to being offensive...and in my case is just that ....so withdraw that observation if you have any respect for the opinions of other forum members. Being combative is contrary to the rules of this forum. When you joined did you read them ?  If Jenny Kirk....a well respected member of the model rail community... reads this,I wonder what her reaction would be ? On the one hand you quote her to substantiate a point you make and yet on the other you are clearly defamatory. You obviously  have a big problem. Please take it elsewhere.

Might I point out that I have only been trying to defend my previous words when you have replied to them. I did not write any of this seeking the hassle of an argument. I am very sorry if I have offended you with my opinion but I would like to state that it is just that. I thought the point of a forum was to share your opinions with others and I don't see why we cannot politely disagree with each other. Additionally, on the point of Jenny Kirk, quoting somebody doesn't mean you agree with them on every matter, if that were true how would any history book or paper about any famous military leader be written!? Maybe I am being too pessimistic and harsh but many others share my assessments of these issues and I only wrote what I did previously to start/reignite a discussion. The lat thin I want to do is to make you feel bad, I would never write anything to intentionally harm, maybe it would be best if we just drew a line under this conversation and walked away respectfully. I for one would rather read people's verdicts on their received models and share mine when I get my terrier than squabble and be negative.

Kind regards,

Otis 

4 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

That’s a way over simplistic judgement and certainly a deeply pessimistic doom laden post.To soothe your anxiety,my Rails Terrier is fine.You quote Jenny Kirk ? Hers was too....

Well I don't want to speak for you if you are happy with your model but Jenny Kirk, someone who is meant to be an impartial reviewer despite being 'friends with Rails', failed to mention the very noticeable design flaw of the gap on top of the cab and the prototypical inaccuracies of the BR version she had. I also don't think that is a way over simplistic judgment of Bachmann either, maybe you have too much loyalty to a brand like so many do in my opinion. I remember seeing a model news video from Mike Wild at Hornby magazine some time ago and despite the fact that it was just meant to be an unbiased, informative video, he admitted that he thought some of Bachmann's latest prices were a mistake and was quite surprised to learn that they weren't. 

7 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Be grateful if you would give us the benefit of YOUR wisdom then as to what “worth it “ actually does mean in model rail terms. For many ,you see,that term means a sense of deep satisfaction in receiving a model to admire.Whilst you may imply that one of Bachmann’s new releases is overvalued there will be many quite prepared to purchase,even allowing for the fact that Bachmann are not noted for their deep discounting.At the moment,members of this forum are quite prepared to pay £267 for a 117  3 car unit amid glowing reports of admiration of its virtues. Try telling them it’s not “cost effective “ 

 

When you talk in terms of cost on this forum,you open up a whole can of  worms. 
 

But this is the thread for Rails Terrier,is it not ?

Yes of course, anything in life is worth what people are willing to pay and that is exactly the reason why manufacturers can charge the prices they do. I actually thought that the terrier had a good, competitive price but as many have said it is just not currently justifiable with the plagues of quality control issues and design flaws. If it did what it was supposed to do and if there wasn't a very good alternative for a lot less already on the market, I would never have mentioned its' price. On the issue of the constantly rising prices of Bachmann, I have to ask you, do you not feel that at least in some regard they are starting to exploit the customers' feeling of having a nice model they can admire for extra profit? In nobody's world is a C Class in plain Southern black worth £170, especially when you remember that the tooling is 7 years old and it originally retailed for around £60. As Jennifer Kirk says, if they only had a good justification, there wouldn't be a problem but they simply don't. There are very similar models from other manufacturers that accomplish much more for much less but still Bachmann keep increasing their prices. That is not very fair to the customers that keep them in business in my opinion. In fact I think it they are treating us as an expendable horse that they can keep flogging as much as they like because they think they can get away with it.

Anyway, that's enough moaning, as you said this is a terrier thread and we should try to keep it that way. If mine arrives as advertised, I will obviously take back what I said with pleasure but I just don't think it will. 

I guess we will have to wait and see,

Kind regards,

Otis