GWR-fan

Many of us "colonialists" will remember how the company tried to shoot itself in the foot a few years ago by banning UK retailers from selling Hornby products outside the UK and I presume Europe at the time. It seems that local distributors were upset with the "grey" imports undermining their attempts to maintain full retail pricing. "Discounting" and "box shifters" are dirty words in their vocabulary. Hattons and no doubt Rails will attest that Australia is a large market for them outside of the UK. The company seems to have a death wish. Edit: on second thoughts with Rails no longer able to sell new Hornby products and Hattons a tier 3 retailer, then perhaps there is a defacto ban on Hornby products to the colonies.

Les, exactly why I do not subscribe by making my email address available to a third party over whom I have no control.

As I am yet to see relevant information on the form the drive chassis will take then presumably even those who are subscribed and receive newsletters are possibly not informed as to the final details of the driveline. Is it too much to ask for a manufacturer releasing his first diesel outline chassis to make available such information so that a purchaser may make an informed decision? Are the "drive bogies" articulated or a fixed wheelbase four coupled drive bogie?

I do not subscribe to Hornby, Bachmann, Oxford Rail and other manufacturers to get information on their products. For those who have subscribed to KR Models then no doubt you already know the important details like the design of the chassis (centre motor with flywheels?), how many poles, is the motor coreless, how many wheels have pickups? Once again has anyone actually seen the drive chassis? For a model which apparently is due "after Easter" there is a surprising lack of information.

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Quote from January 21st posting: "Just received an e mail from KR models they are hoping for an Easter delivery for the Fell model. The message also contained updates on their other models." What was in the email you referenced? You may have received information but I, like many others, did not. I have to rely on information supplied to Rails and an "after Easter" delivery is extremely optimistic, more like July/August, (but then July/August are actually "after Easter"). Recall how an "after Christmas" delivery from another manufacturer is in reality a delay of at least eight months. All you do is reinforce what I stated and that is only those "in the know" receive those personal emails. The newsletter referenced was not "public" knowledge and most likely only those who are on personal email lists or perhaps for those who have purchased directly through the KR Models website. Show me what information on the Fell that there is on the KR Models website other than a reference in a newsletter back in late 2020. Surely a new manufacturer would want to update available information on new production on their website rather than the exclusivity of those who have signed on for receipt of emails from the company. I purchased mine directly through Rails and they are reliant on any production information that the company provides them and that information has been exceedingly sparse.

I have pre-ordered through Rails and information is very limited as is information on the KR website. The only info I can see on the website on the Fell is back around 2020 in a newsletter. Perhaps as you have ordered directly through the website you are privy to personal details as regards production of the Fell. I am not privy to such information and am left to sparse reports in the media. As China basically shuts down in a week, exactly how old is your personal info on production being completed? For an Easter delivery the model will already be intransit or at least awaiting shipment at a dock in China. If final assembly/packaging has to await a return of the workforce in March then delivery will not be at least until June or July and possibly like with the Hattons Genesis coaches, more like August. Hattons were "honest" with their delivery estimate just days after announcing a late March arrival instore of their Genesis coaches when they posted an updated August delivery. As regards "belly aching" well, Kader has over a century in business and a proven track record of production. KR Models has a GT3 with a second run soon and the Consett wagons to be released soon (?). As a relative newcomer to the market, I do not think it unreasonable for the company to inform buyers (not just through personal mail) of the state of progress of their products. From the start the company has received a lot of undue criticism due the failure of another crowd source company, so it benefits both the company and the buyer when regular updates are given. I will restate, has anyone seen publicly what the drive chassis looks like? Many buyers are not on personal email newsletters or Facebook so are left in the dark. The only recent information I could find on Facebook after a Google search was images of painted GT3 bodies, nothing on the Fell and yet supposedly production was "completed". Nearly two years into the project I have seen a prototype unpainted "running" example (from late2020, well the body was sitting on a chassis), a BR black actual running example and a BR green body minus a chassis from around mid-2021.

Unlike today's simultaneous worldwide movie releases, in the days when DVD's were popular, a movie would be scheduled for release in say the United States perhaps six months ahead of a southern hemisphere theatre release. Thus if DVD's were not region encoded then one could simply obtain a copy of a northern hemisphere movie release on DVD perhaps months before a movie might be released in a theatre downunder. Of cause the cynic in me gets back to how much a consumer is willing to pay for a DVD with US retail prices at the time far lower than the same item in say Australia. I do not know if still the case but Apple were charging many times the cost of a song or album release download for Australian customers than the same release in America. CD's were similarly priced lower in the States than in Australia.

Like Hornby, is OR setting itself up as a direct order full retail source rather than supplying the dealer network?

Mike, totally agree. I have not seen restrictions on previous OR wagon releases. When first announced the low price did have people talking. I believe the RRP on the Dapol Turbot is around GBP27.95. When first news was released on the Pilchard the expected price was around GBP13.00. I await to see other retailers imposing restrictions on deliveries (perhaps a devious Hornby plot may be revealed).

I did have four on order but seeing the price of a comparable Dapol bogie wagon nearly twice the retail price I decided a couple of weeks ago to cancel the order due uncertainty as to the final pricing. Possibly OR short changed themselves on the expected price and limited production numbers. Any subsequent run/s will most likely be much more expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto

Personally I will take this with a grain of salt. An Easter delivery implies that the production run has been completed and the goods are ready for packing into a container for shipment or already enroute. With February 1st (Chinese New Year) just over a week away and many Chinese leaving factories early to travel to families then Easter seems a vague and distant possibility. It sounds to me more like another manufacturer's "after Christmas" timeframe actually being a delivery delay of almost six months. Personally, I would prefer a later delivery date due my circumstances. Given that Hattons delayed their "latest" expected late March delivery date on their Genesis coaches to around August indicates to me that an Easter delivery date on the Fell is pie in the sky or extremely optimistic. No information of late on an actual production run of the Fell occurring and suddenly an Easter delivery date does sound very, very optimistic, taking no account of New Year and distribution delays. Why plenty of production information on the GT3 and yet nothing on the Fell? Has anyone actually seen a drive chassis without a body shell? All I have seen are a prototype body shell from 2020 and a couple of painted shells and a single running example. For a model so apparently close to actual delivery there has been minimal information available to the public.

Sorry, I put it on the "to do list" and never got around to it.

Back around the turn of the 21st century, a largescale manufacturer (LGB) produced a limited edition release of two "wooden" boxcars with advertising material depicting two brands of cigars. Released as a two car collector set, I believe around 1200 sets were released. At the time, the company was not in the best financial shape and found themselves in breach of licencing rights. I believe that a handful of cars were sold to the public with the rest being snapped up at a bargain price by the owner of a large toystore in the Los Angeles area, Al Kramer. I do not know how he avoided licencing restrictions (he sold them as individual cars and not as the intended two-car set) but Al then sold the cars though his store and on eBay. I was particularly interested in securing quite a few of the cars, not for their "collector" value, but surprisingly the retail cost of the metal wheels on the cars was more than the asking price for the cars. I removed the metal wheels, fitted new plastic LGB wheels and then onsold the cars at a reduced price. LGB always had a relatively large range of officially licenced products so it is surprising that the two cigar cars were in breach of licencing rules. Hornby may well find out that when you tread on someone else's toes that they might wear bigger shoes than you do.

It makes you wonder if Hornby even bothered to get the rights to manufacture the 60th anniversary Titfield train pack R3186 (even included a copy of the film). If they did acquire the rights then did they possibly believe that they had the implied rights to release the "inspired" by set? Using the word "inspired" implies that they knew that releasing the set would see them in hot water and yet they still went along with the project. SK stubborness or plain stupidity or has SK passed his use by date?

He admits earlier that he is disappointed that the limited edition NRM APT-E by Rapido turned out to not be that limited (thus less investment potential) as Rapido are rereleasing the model (albeit without all the limited trimmings that came with the limited edition release). His post seems more a criticism of Rapido for this action rather than supporting Hornby's actions.

Do not forget Hornby-Dublo, Trix, Lima, Mainline, Replica and Hachette versions

Or perhaps they decided not to be taken for granted by Hornby. Other than Oxford Rail, the newcomers have as yet not released coaches, but definitely planned for release, but what irks me is the like of Hornby releasing Mk3 buffet cars with no vents in the roof and even with coach seating in the bar area. This to me is indicative of the company's lax attitude to the market, still perceiving their role as toy trainset manufacturers primarily.

It would seem that the "new" players in the market were tired of the less than realistic offerings in the market and prepared to manufacture the type of model that they as predominantly model railway hobbyists wished from the market. Some see these newcomers as interfering with an established market, whereas in reality they are a breath of fresh air in a stagnating market. For a generation Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol have existed somewhat on hand me down heritage tooling, some dating back to original Hornby-Dublo origins. These enthusiast manufacturers have increased the demand for high fidelity models, even if to the detriment of the lazy major players in the market who until relatively recently thought "if we build it they will buy".

Perhaps in a law and order society one may like to think that everyone plays by the rules. Obviously you agree with Hornby most likely ripping off a trademark by not paying licencing rights to use a product. I am sure that the name "Thunderbolt" is protected under the copyright of the movie. Hornby could have chosen to leave the loco named as "Lion" in the "inspired" train pack but chose to infringe on the copyright and avoid licencing fees to Studio-Canal. Similarly with the Bedford bus. If they released a generic Bedford OB bus with a generic destination blind then most likely no copyright infringement. It seems though that they replicated the destination blind from the movie. Surely a copyright infringement. As regards the rerelease of the APT-E, are you sure that it was solely a rail museum property release or was there a clause allowing the release of the model after a time period, say two years. Recall how Bachmann released the LMS/Midland Compound as a museum release and then rereleased it in a train pack with three Stannier coaches.

Given the supply, distribution and tier issues in 2021, how confident are we that we will actually be able to purchase those new releases? 2022 will be no better than the previous year and it seems the issues that plagued us last year are just as prevalent today, so personally one has to realise that some will not be as fortunate as others. Those able to actually secure a Coronation set (or two, or three, or.....) will indeed be most fortunate, leaving the path open to exploitation. Direct pre-ordering will make one's chances better in securing a model, however, from my memory of the video the Coronation set will be released in four packs of two coaches each and a single trailer car. No doubt some would prefer the option of securing a single pack of either eight or nine coaches as being unable to purchase a full set of cars may be a deal breaker.

When does a brandname or trademark become a "generic" symbol to the market? No doubt the likes of Coca-Cola and Pepsi will strenuously defend their brand but what of all the other trademarks out there? About twenty or so years ago Union Pacific initiated royalty/licencing requirements for any product representing their tradename. There was much discussion and cries of never modelling the Union Pacific again on the American model railroad scene. I cannot recall the outcome but the furore died down relatively quickly. I know that modern image niche manufacturers need to obtain approval for various private liveries, but does time erode that requirement as the tradename becomes part of history. As companies takeover other companies does the original trademark retain legal status even if no longer used? Would Hornby have always received approval to represent the numerous liveries or even the design characteristics of the many models produced over the years? Edit: as a follow on I found this on Wikipedia (quote) "On May 27, 2004, Union Pacific Railroad sued Athearn (another manufacturer of model railroad equipment) and Lionel for trademark infringement. The railroad claimed both companies put the names and logos of UP, as well as the names and logos of various fallen flag railroads UP had acquired over the years, on their model railroad products without a license. While Athearn quickly settled and acquired a license, Lionel initially resisted, arguing that it and its predecessor companies had been using the logos for more than 50 years, and had been encouraged or even paid to do so. On September 13, 2006, Lionel and UP settled the suit for US$640,000 plus a royalty on future sales." (end quote)

Some years ago a well known manufacturer of coarse scale O gauge trains, Lionel, decided to copy the models made by another manufacturer, MTH (Mikes Train House). I believe that Lionel even copied the electronics of the MTH models. MTH sued Lionel with a court victory to MTH with damages awarded. Lionel were unable to pay the damages and legal bills so the company was absorbed into the MTH empire.

Was "Lion" also used towards the end of a movie on the young Queen Victoria circa-1930's. The film showed the loco and several carriages (somewhat like early horse drawn coaches along with a "brakeman" in period attire atop the coach) leaving a station with Victoria and Albert onboard. Perhaps another movie for Simon to lay claim to.