GWR-fan

Kit production is one thing, however, finding the workforce to assemble detailed models is the issue.

Wagons could possibly translate to local production, however with no disrespect to other nationalities, the Chinese for over twenty years have demonstrated that they have a highly skilled workforce with the dexterity to assemble very detailed locomotive models. I recall when LGB commenced production in Hungary that warranty issues surfaced. On one particular locomotive there were issues with the drive bogies. It seems the workers ignored the requirement to install a specified number of screws securing the lower cover plate and assumed near enough was good enough with the result the bogies failed.

Excellent service to downunder. I ordered the class 43 pack "Sprightly" with a pack of three china clay wagons. So impressed, I ordered an additional class 43 and wagons pack.

Fine to be discussing the advantages of a budget model as compared to a more expensive high spec model, but when it comes to finding production slots then a "manufacturer" needs to consider how to best use that slot. If he chooses a budget model then how many individual models can be assembled in that time and is there really a market for that stock level. Should he choose a high spec model then most likely he has already "pre-sold" that run and more likely assured an "instant" profit. Production today, unlike long ago with excess stock languishing on shelves, is more "on time" to meet the immediate demand. Excess stock is now seen as a financial liability rather than an asset. A niche high spec manufacturer is able to concentrate on high end models, while, say Hornby has to satisfy the demands of both the low end of the market and those who want all the detail possible, thus what capital they have available needs to be spread over a full range of products. For all the criticism that they receive, Hornby really does have a precarious tightrope to walk.

The limited release purple locomotive to commemorate the 96th birthday of Her Majesty, increasing the initial 1500 production run to 2500 units reminds me of British Leyland in Australia back in 1978 with the 1275S limited run Mini. Released in two batches with 750 units each in either silver or gold. So popular was the model that the company released a further two batches. Being a Mini afficiando and having driven and owned all sorts of Minis from the 850 to the Mk1 Cooper "S", I decided that the new limited run Mini in silver with the supposedly "limited" run of 750 units only was a must have and possibly an investment. Alas, the further release of the model doubling the production run left a sour taste in my mouth and after only four months of ownership, I disposed of the vehicle, a decision aided by the then infamous poor quality control that BL was known for. As well as the poor build quality the motor was fitted with an airpump to dilute carbon monoxide in the exhaust and other pollution gear that caused the model to overheat all the time. Driving in the hot Australian summer with the heater on full to keep the temperature down was not a comfortable experience. Little did I know back then as in today's market the model has actually become a collectable and is attracting over four times the price when new back in 1978. Perhaps there is hope for the purple beast.

When I was heavily into outdoor largescale trains with mostly items from the very expensive LGB company, an upstart from China released a range of products that appeared to use cloned original tooling from LGB. The product had various names like "Train" (very original) and "Newqida". The coaches had tooling marks based on the LGB product, intended for parts not supplied by Newqida but available on the genuine item. Coincidence or cloning? They did a nice German ICE train with sound chip. Alas the sound supplied had a nice steam chuffing noise. The Newqida coaches were $35.00usd compared to the same LGB coach around $250.00usd. The knockoffs were actually not too bad and while not up to the quality of LGB, were acceptable for day to day use. I purchased around sixty of the cheap coaches, some of which were kitbashed or repainted in a more suitable livery. A downside though was one could not guarantee that the coach received would be 100% complete. I was left with several cars that were cannibalised to service other incomplete cars. There was a lot of controversy over copyright infringement, but while it was rumoured that an action was taken out in Germany, from memory, nothing came of it. At the time LGB was in its death throes with perhaps no appetite for legal action with numerous rumours abounding of moving stock to the US and starting a "new" company there. Container loads of genuine LGB products did make their way to the US and were flogged off by LGBoA for a fraction of retail price. I picked up hundreds of genuine bargains from locomotives to rolling stock. Those were the days with almost weekly deliveries from the States.

About three years ago there was a Taiwanese seller on eBay who was offering new Hornby and Bachmann locomotives for about 1/3 the then UK price. The only downside was no original packaging and no small detail parts pack. I picked up the two NRM versions of "City of Truro" for around GBP60.00 each. Both new condition with no flaws.

Every day Hornby has to keep reminding us that it is really just a "toy" train manufacturer.

The price of the Clan has finally come to its senses. Before the loco "Clan Macdonald" was even available in the UK I picked up the loco new from a Victorian dealer at 20% off local retail, downunder. Total cost with free postage was just under GBP100.00 ($205.00Aud). At the time I believe the RRP in the UK was over GBP200.00. Similarly, the Hornby Belmond set with class 67 and three Pullman coaches could be purchased on local eBay for $280.00 new stock (cheaper than the Northern Belle set with the Railroad class 57 and three Mk2D coaches). The current RRP is over twice this in the UK. There is definitely a pricing discrepancy for new stock between both countries. That being said, a typical Hornby coach now is between $90.00 - $120.00.

The last couple of years supply shortages have been blamed on the pandemic, however, shortages were noted prior January 2020. In late 2017 Lyndon Davies took over the reins at Hornby as CEO. One of his first statements was no more firesales. At the time Hornby "over production" had seen new stock flying out the door at bargain basement prices. I cringe now when I see pre-owned items for sale at twice the price one could purchase the same items as new stock back in those memorable days just a few years ago. I kick myself now at all those missed opportunities to snatch a bargain.

Due me being "between houses" with no delivery address I have been adding items to my Hattons trunk service. A change that I notice is that the trunk only accepts credit card payments and when activated there is an automatic verification process with my card provider (no SMS or code sent) and a transaction fee applied to my card. When I used the delivery method there was no fee on the card and no authentication process (perhaps this has now changed).

For those who think that model railways may be a tad expensive then those who detail their military model kits might think that railway modellers are scrooges. My son will take a military model kit and then add detail parts that increase the basic cost of the model many times over. It astounds me the variety and prices of these resin and etched kits that "modellers" simply have to buy to "finish" off their models to the level that they aspire to. As an example, just prior to reading this thread I saw one local supplier of detail parts that had a resin driver "kit" to fit to the Airfix David Brown tractor that discounted cost almost GBP5.00 (plus postage).

I had a similar scenario with some NCE decoders. On DCC the loco would suddenly accelerate to full speed or change directions without input and no reduction in speed. Disabling analogue running (CV29) was the fix.

Perhaps you have not been reading the thread. The manufacturer of Judith Edge kits spent years researching the prototype and may well have been reluctant to release a kit due the minefield that the prototype represented. Another member stated that he researched the prototype ten plus years ago for a model to be produced but the project stalled. There are people in the trade who had all the information required and if that information was available and possibly at a fee then the manufacturer could have reached out. I could be mistaken but from memory somewhere back in the 35 odd pages of this thread a comment was made that research material was offered but refused. Did the manufacturer rely solely on his own research? To say that the information was not available at the time tooling was authorised simply means that the manufacturer had not exhausted all avenues and relied most likely on his own recognisance. The relevant information WAS available. Read the entire thread and you decide if interested. If we look purely at one side of the model at a time then it is indeed a very striking model. However, unlike a 2D poster or an image of the locomotive, a model is three dimensional and should be viewed as such. When you are outlaying a six figure sum of more than likely other people's money then you have a duty of care to be diligent in all stages of production and that includes research.

It would seem the majority of responses in this thread are supporters of the model. Perhaps the majority of these members have a vested interest in supporting the model as they have fully paid up pre-payments and are willing to accept the model as tooled (something better than nothing). I took action and contacted Rails to cancel my pre-order and they have confirmed that my order is cancelled. The model in BR black, DCC ready, was sold out so there is now one more available. I am asked why I would need to purchase two BR black models representing a different period in the locomotive's history when the model as tooled would fulfill my needs. I see no point in answering that question. It may have been a serious question or it may have been tongue in cheek. Another member referred to RMWeb members who criticise the model as highly objectionable nit pickers for having the audacity to expect a model to actually represent the locomotive and not be a caricature representing the model over its lifetime (pull the other leg, it has bells on it). Another response reminds us that Bachmann made an error in the incorrect numbering of coaches on a two car set and another that a respected manufacturer had misplaced a decal on one side of a wagon, yet seemingly excusing another manufacturer for an entire side of a locomotive being wrongly tooled. There was a market out there for the Fell and it apparently has been satisfied but there could so well have been a much larger market for a well researched detailed model. A point seemingly lost in the Jenny Kirk interview was an ideal moment by the manufacturer to remind viewers that the Fell would be apparently available by Easter according to a recent newsletter. He told us about the Consett wagons but no mention of a date on the Fell. Oddly, at this late date the only bodies being shown are seemingly the liveried bodies first shown back in September last year and possibly the chassis with sound highlighted mid last year. It is odd that the manufacturer does not have production samples or at least a production sample to show. The models are apparently due in barely six weeks.

If the two images in BR black were of two distinct models and not images of the same model then I would have happily purchased both models. Yes, a lot of detail has been added to the detailing making a crisp looking body, so such a shame that the detail is seemingly wasted. As regards the possibly incorrect placement of the water fillers, well, that is one small detail I could happily overlook. As I have stated previously, if more thought had of been given to the tooling then at least three models could have been released, thus extending the production costs over three runs. Making the tooling for one compromised model, while it most likely has recouped the initial tooling cost, in the long run could have compromised the overall success of future variants. Will there be a further production run in this guise, quite possibly, as it seems that many are prepared to accept the model as tooled. This is a case of what could have been an excellent model if tooled to represent the variants in its lifetime and has more than likely killed off the chance of another manufacturer releasing a range of models specific to a period in history. As regards the "deliberate" decision to tool the model to represent the loco through its lifetime then I suggest a thorough reading of this thread and then decide if a mistake has been made due available research material sourced by the manufacturer at the time, or a face saving exercise. The images show that this could have been such a very nice model, if only..........

The manufacturer was aware sometime ago after committing to tooling that there was an issue with the model and to avoid a personal financial collapse they chose to continue production knowing full well that the model lacked accuracy. Look back over the last eight to nine months and only two liveried images have been released (September, 2021) showing just the side of the model with the later service modifications. Back in June last year the company stated the model was near to production and basically crickets since. The company chose to release the model as it is. Those who pre-paid are not responsible for less than diligent research being carried out resulting in an inaccurate model. It would seem though that most are prepared to accept the model with all its flaws and the manufacturer has saved financial ruin. Why then in the future should the likes of Accurascale, Revolution, Sonic and the major manufacturers waste resources on accurate research when the market has shown the level of accuracy that it is prepared to accept? Edit: for comparison Rails pre-order price the KR Models Fell GBP150.00 Accurascale class 55 GBP160.00 class 31 GBP169.99 class 92 GBP189.99 I am sure that the Accurascale will be highly detailed models for little more than the cost of the Fell. Of cause there is a lot more information available for the models that Accurascale chose to manufacture and the locomotives were available in multiple numbers and liveries so cost may be spread over a number of variations. The Fell was a one-off prototype with seemingly little information available and yet those who chose to diligently research the locomotive were able to source that information. Was the manufacturer open to paid consultation with these experts or did the manufacturer choose its own lines of inquiry and not get all the facts?

Perhaps those who have seen the model in question may comment on the location of the loco numbering. On the tooled side with only two grilles/vents in each hood, is the numbering to the outboard end of the loco hood as on the prototype, or is it located behind the cab doors to replicate the location of the numbering on the opposite side with the four grilles in each hood? In future I will think an appropriate name for the loco, the Fell'con'. The pre-payment plan for the model was GBP125.00 if purchased before the order books closed. This, I believe, left no margin for error to correct any tooling issues should they arise. If the manufacturer had of been more diligent in his research then he could have realised several variations of the model thus increasing the life of the model run. With suitable, but more expensive tooling (and shock horror a more expensive pre-payment plan), I feel that at least three versions could have been realised, all with a high degree of accuracy utilising the same running platform. Alas, that horse has bolted and we will now not have a locomotive worthy of being called a model being released in the future as the KR Models release has most likely satisfied the bulk of the demand for the type, leaving the chance of a successful more accurate release from another manufacturer being less likely. If there is a rerun of the model then I feel that the modelling fraternity has no credibility, but then there was sufficient interest in a BR blue GT3 for a rerun (to what extent did Rails involvement allow the run to proceed?). I, like many others, wanted a RTR Fell and was excited when the model was announced. When the CAD's were released I was not aware that I was looking at the sides of the same loco and not the mods carried out post release of the prototype. It is common for manufacturers to print a test model showing all variations of tooling on the one model. The first release images were possibly of the test model showing the loco to be asymmetrical. Little did we know that this was the final form. I would have happily purchased two models in black depicting both the loco as released and the loco in a later guise. In hindsight the model as released would have saved me the cost of another model as I would be getting both in the same model.

I am reminded of a scene from Fawlty Towers, where after a tumultuous scene in the dining room with some German tourists, John Cleese moves to the kitchen area and says, "Don't mention the war. I did, but I think that I got away with it". Edit: was it a scene for "The Simpsons", an obvious crime scene has the police officer telling the bystanders, "Move along, nothing to see here".

I was being cynical quoting your exact words. Too many who pre-paid are left with little recourse should they not be happy with the final outcome. Those who purchased from Rails might be able to return them for a refund, but would the manufacturer accept returns other than warranty claims? If many are happy, truly happy with no regrets, then that is their prerogative. How the media handles this model will be very interesting.

Let us see the mood when the model is released. If no criticism then you can make a silk purse from a pig's ear. Just for information if you look at the late crest model, the side with only two grilles each end is the as released version. By around 1952 the model had four grilles each end plus the side window had a grille over it as well as other changes like whether it had rooftop ventilators and how many. Thus by the time the loco was in late crest livery the hood grilles had been altered many years previously and a grille placed over the side window. If this is not a fault for you then no doubt you along with apparently 98 - 99% of purchasers will totally happy.

If you were looking at a BR green model then definitely one side is wrong.

Let us wait and see the reviews from the likes of the model magazines and gauge their comments, but then it will really require two reviews depending on which side of the model they are looking at. The faults in the model are not simply a missing pink knob coming out of the driver's side roof area. Would we excuse other manufacturers for such inaccuracies? No doubt Keith and his son are highly motivated and dedicated manufacturers, but we must remember that most likely a lot of the investment in the model is not all their own money but pre-payments and perhaps financing from Rails as well. Without the input of Rails then it is conceivable that the project was maybe a non-starter. A positive outcome of this is hopefully more diligent research before committing to signing off tooling on future projects. If the prototype was an obscure locomotive then the onus is on the researcher to be more diligent in their endeavours and travel every route to make sure they have it right.

So in the previous posting when you stated, quote: "Just because you live in the antipodes does not give you the right to pontificate on my personal views which I have not put on this forum. No wonder you are on moderated status." We do speak the Queen's english downunder and in my opinion your statement is a snide criticism of me. Enjoy your model when you receive it, as I will enjoy spending the money saved not buying the model on something more accurate.

So you will criticise me for my personal views but exonerate a manufacturer for a completely incorrect expensive model. My views come at no financial expense to you.