jamesed

If it wasn't in properly then it wouldn't work at all. The OP has already said that it is running and he has got a degree of improvement by playing around with cv values so that proves the decoder is fitted ok and working. The only problem is that it's running a bit like a Lais decoder - oh yes, it is a Lais decoder so that explains it. It doesn't matter what you do, you'll never get one of these decoders to perform anything like as well as a Zimo decoder. The main problem is that Lais (for Dapol Imperium read rebadged Lais) does not, by default, set a speed curve. It's just linear straight line volts which will never give the most smooth operation. To activate a variation to this you must set values for cv2 (start voltage), cv6 (mid point voltage) and cv5 (maximum voltage). These are set to zero by default. You need to set values betwen 1-255 and must set a value for cv2, 5 and 6. By playing around with different values you can get a three point curve which is an improvement on the default. The best way is to first find, by trial and error, a setting you like for the maximum speed (cv5) and make sure that as you drop back a little on the throttle the speed starts to reduce. Start with something around 230 and work up or down from that. Then set the mid point (cv6) to about one third of the maximum value, perhaps around 80. Then find the ideal start voltage (cv2) for which 3 is a good starting value. Give that a try and see how it feels. You can tweak each value up or down until it feels about right. Hopefully you can find something which will be passable. If you're still not happy with it you have another couple of options. One is to replace the decoder with a better one or the other option is to write your own 28 step parabolic speed curve. This can be done by programming values for each step of a 28 step curve into CVs 67 to 94. Then, to activate this curve you need to add 16 to the value of cv29. This option is going to require a lot of patience and trial and error adjusting multiple points on the curve. If you're willing to put the time and effort in then it should be possible to get a speed curve that you are happy with. The trouble is that we've become so used to this just working well out of the box with decoders like Zimo that it seems like a lot of effort. Especially as, at the end of it, you may have a decent speed curve but the motor still won't feel as smooth as it does with a Zimo. I did have a faulty N18 socket on one brand new loco but that just didn't work at all. I returned the loco and it was replaced under warranty. N18s fit quite well but you should be able to feel it locate firmly in the socket with your finger.

Firstly, make sure you are using the program track. It may not like POM. You'll need to use manual programming and make sure that once you are in the manual cv programming screen you re-select program track from the left hand menu. You'll most likely have to change the mid point speed as well as the the maximum speed so play around with cv5 and cv6. It will never be brilliant compared with using one of the better decoders but you should be able to make it passable.

I think the only problem here is the choice of terminology. I find it much easier to keep things simple. As far as a model railway is concerned then if you have pairs of wires running beneath your board which carry a DCC signal then this is a "bus". Specifically it is a DCC Bus. Whether you then use that bus to control trains, run accessories or perhaps even use it to transmit data with, for example Railcom, it's still a DCC Bus which, by definition, is capable of doing any of those things. If you also want to run signal cables around which transmit other types of data, whatever that is but not within a dcc signal, then that's a LAN (local area network), not a bus. So I believe the confusion is arising from you calling something a 'control bus' which isn't a dcc bus at all and could more helpfully be referred to as a Control Lan. Does that make better sense?

Aren't Dapol Imperium decoders just re-badged Lais decoders?

A short while ago there was a thread on the DCC Concepts Focus Forum in which the OP asked a simple question about whether the decoder would support fixed distance abc stopping. The OP was clearly a knowledgeable person but however hard he tried he struggled to get a clear response from DCC Concepts on the subject - other than the usual we are right and everyone else does it wrong sort of response which we have all seen before. Anyway, the OP of that thread has created a youtube video proving that the decoder won't do fixed distance stopping and also providing a pretty damming account of his experience with DCC Concepts. It's worth watching and is quite informative about how abc works, or doesn't as the case may be, if you just want to achieve a simple stop in a constant position.

Cliff, the Multimaus is fine for doing test runs or in my case I use it to give my grandson a train to run. You'll find that you only really unleash the full benefits of a Z21 if you use a tablet to control your trains. Using a standard 10" tablet (you can pick up a pretty decent one for about £100 if you don't have one) you can rotate it into 'landscape' view and have two train throttles side by side giving you full simultaneous control on one screen. Each of the two throttles can easily be switched to other trains by swiping through the photo selection bar below the throttle and selecting which train to control. On my layout I use two tablets, one to control trains and the other set to the full screen schematic mimic to control routes, points and accessories. Essentially you can have pretty much as many 'devices' connected to your Z21 as you wish at any one time. The current control settings of any loco will mimic on any other device that selects the same loco to control. When we first introduced the Z21 to our Club and got a number of people to download the app and connect it, at one point we had five people all controlling the same train on their phones as it ran around our test track. That sounds a bit mad, and I suppose it was, but it was a great demonstration of what the Z21 can do. Don't forget it's not just about running the train forwards or backwards, it's about controlling associated functions too. In our case that was just directional lights and carriage lighting on a dmu but the simplicity of it still enthralled our members who hadn't experienced the joys of a Z21 before.

The Zimo MX decoder range is about to be replaced with the new MN range. The first to be made available will be the MN180N18 (Next18 version). Originally they had planned to release this in August (meaning September by the time they reach UK distributors) but this date now appears to have been put back. Their latest newsletter now quotes 'fourth quarter' for the release date of MN decoders which effectively means some time up to the end of December. Consequently that probably means January for UK distribution but even that's assuming there are no more delays. We'll get about a month's notice of their arrival. As for other MX decoders it seems unlikely we will see any more of those being made but who knows? It could be some months yet sadly.

MN180N18 is the model number for new Zimo range replacement for the MX618N18, which is supposed to be the first on the MN series to be released. If you are lucky you might get one in time for Christmas but if not it will be something to look forward to in the New Year.

Oh Oldddudders don't you know that 'influencers' never pay for anything. In fact, pethaps they'd throw in a free return flight to Beijing and we could revue the dating agency too. Oh no, the missus has just vetoed that plan - says I've got to stick with trains.

This is all quite interesting isn't it. So, what we have learnt is that AE Electronics is a Chinese company fronted by a dating agency who are making dcc decoders in collaboration with DCC Concepts using technology that originally came from TCS but was subsequently ripped off by Lais. In short, we're none the wiser about the integrity of this product other than taking DCC Concepts word for it. What I guess we really need to know is are they any good and how do they compare with something like a Zimo which most of us would use as a benchmark for quality. Perhaps DCC Concepts would like to send out some freebies to us so we can try them and report back here and on other forums with a review. Another question that perhaps this raises is whether or not the Dapol Imperium decoders are actually re-badged Lais or perhaps these too are made by the same Chinese dating agency. Has anyone else been watching the new series of Capture on BBC1? That's enough to make us all be wary of buying any electronic items from China. Anyway, all this is Zimo's fault. If they could just make some product then we'll all be happy again and can stop having interest in dating agencies (oops) Chinese decoders.

Hmmm that's not really clear information. A quick google search for a company named. AE Electronics turns up a retail company in Northern Ireland, a Chinese company which makes EV chargers and an electronics manufacturer in Romania, with a US parent comany, that makes military hardware components. If these aren't simply rebranded Lais decoders then it would be nice to know a little more about the company that makes them. One does also wonder why they would choose to copy the Lais cv set rather than try and distance themselves from what is widely regarded as the cheap and cheerful option.

Apologies, I have only just seen that you did answer my questions within the quote box. That's great, now we can hopefully get you on track. Ok, so I think, as per my previous post, the 6-pin chip version of the 156 is working ok even though, with this model, it's not possible to switch the lightbar from dcc functions. Let's do as John said and focus on the the N18 version. First, put both cars on the program track. Now go to 'cv programming' / 'manual' tab / 'program track' For cv8 enter a value of 4 which will restore defaults to both decoders. Now, program: cv33=9 cv34=6 That will map the outputs of the running lights to F0 Now program cv35=32 That will re-map function output 4 to F1 Now program cv36=0 cv37=0 cv38=0 which will simply clear the previous assignments to F2, F3 and F4 just to clean thing up a bit and avoid any mis-switching. Now, to program the address that you want for that train. If you want an address between 1 and 99 then simply program cv1 = two digit address number also at this stage, program cv29=2. which will turn off dc running as a safety measure. If you want to turn it back on again at any time just reprogram cv29 to value of 6. If you want an address of 100 or above it gets a bit more complicated: For an address between 100 and 255 then program: cv17=192 cv18= your preferred address between 100-255 and then program cv29=34 which will switch on 'long address' recognition and the chip will ignore the cv1 value. That setting will also disable dc running which is just a safety measure for now. If you want to turn it back on again at any time just reprogram cv29 to value of 38. If you want to set an address of 256 or more then it gets a bit less straightforward but if you go to this webpage you can use the calculator to find the necessary values required for cv17 snd cv18. Then it's as above for cv29=34 etc. Now come out of cv orogramming and back to the main menu. Go to 'vehicles' Click the + button to add a new vehicle and choose type 'loco' Click on the data tab if this isn't already live. Enter the address that you've entered for the train. Enter a name for the train, i.e. Class 156. N18 (or anything you wish) Under the locomotive data heading click on the right arrow just to the right of the generic loco image outline and . . then click on select from camera/gallery. Follow the prompts to take a photo of your 156 on your ipad, then once the image is selected it will let you crop it to size. Click on crop and the image will be saved. Now click on the 'functions' tab. tap on CI which light in orange. The program options will show below or to the right for that function. It should default to function number 0 which is what you want so don't change it. It should also default to switch as the tyoe which again is what you want so don't change it. Tap 'symbol' snd then select 'light 1' from the list that comes up. Now tap on CII at the top and that will now go orange. For this, change the function number to 1. For the symbol scroll down the sybol options and you will see one for interior lights. Select this. Now, using the back arrow at the top left of your screen go back to the main menu. Now click on the big button in the middle of the screen, or labelled steering in the phone app screen. You should now find your 156 in your list of available locos. Tap on this to take control of it. The F0 button should control your running lights. The F1 button should turn your lightbars on and off. The throttle slider should make the train go forwards or backwards. With F0 switched on, just check that when you select forward direction you have white headlamps at the front for direction of travel and red at the back. If this is the wrong way around then you can correct it by going back to manual cv programming and changing cv33 to 6. and. cv34 to 9. That's it. Hopefully it now all works fine so transfer it onto your main track and give it a run Once you are happy with all that then come back and we'll give you some advice about changing cv2-cv6 which may improve the running.

@Home_Signal you've already been given many of the answers you have sought but for some reason you don't seem to have followed the guidance given. Maybe you are struggling at a more basic level with the conepts involved. That's why I asked you to answer some basic questions in my previous post so that we can get a better understanding of where you are and how best to advise you. Most importantly we need to know whether you have actually been able to successfully re-program cv values (following the instructions previously given). To that end, what loco 'address' have you got for each of your trains? Are you still working with the default '3' or have you managed to change it? Regarding your 6-pin train: it sounds like you have that working ok and as expected. As Nigel has explained, you won't be able to switch the lightbar from the decoder functions, it will just be on the whole time (unless you want to do a bit of internal modification with wires and soldering). Have a look underneath the cars and you may find a little switch to manually turn the lightbars on or off. (That's only a maybe because I've only read about that not experienced it myself as I don't own that model). Now, the Next18 version: exactly what manufacturer decoders are you using? I'm suspecting that they aren't both the same. It is important that you provide us with this information as that may be the reason one of them is not switching the lights on F4. We will need to know the decoder make in order to tell you how to fix this. (if you don't have the original packaging and don't know the answer to that, read the value of cv8 on each chip and tell us what value is returned - you will need to transfer the chip in the unpowered car to the powered car to do that). Regarding the directional lighting, you have already been told how to resolve this. CV33=9 and CV34=6 will put them all onto F0. Then set CV35 and CV36 to 0 which will avoid any confusion through inadvertent use of F1 and F2. Try this first and this should sort out the directional running lights providing you have managed to master the art of cv programming. Once you get back to us with the information about the decoders then we'll tell you how to get your lightbars working as they should.

So what are they then?

Expands and contracts fine and stays as you leave it in Android. Your problem must be with the Apple OS and not the Z21 App.

Ok, don't panic. Let's go back to basics and srart again. It would be hrlpful if you can answer the following questions: Is it a Z21 (the black box version) you own or is it a z21 (white box version)? Assuming it's the black Z21 you have talked about using a program track, explain how this is set up - ie do you have a single short length of straight track (how long?) which not connected to your main layout and is wired back directly to the program track outputs of the Z21? How are you connecting your dcc signal to your program track? What size wire have you used and is it soldered to the track or connected some other way? Talk us through how your layout is wired, dcc bus? how many droppers? You've talked about running on dc. Do you have your dc controller connected (whether on or off) to the track at the same time as your dcc signal? Where have you purchased your locos from? Are all the dcc decoders you are using on your layout Dapol Imperium or do you have any other types? Have you actually managed to successfully program a new address into any locos or have you so far only run any train on address 3? If you have managed to program addresses successfully and run the trains on the new address are these addresses higher or lower than 100? When you launch the Z21 app does the screen look like one of these screenshots:

Ok, quite a lot to unpack here so apologies if this is quite a long post. First, I'm pretty sure (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Dapol Imperium decoders are Lais decoders re-badged. Now they will work and will be perfect for the non-powered ends of your trains but they are notorious for not running well in locos. Out of the box, motor running is very poor. If you play around with various cv settings then it is possible to improve this but they will never run half as well as a better quality decoder. Normally I'd say go out and buy a couple of Zimo decoders for the motor ends because these will work beautifully straight out of the box and it will be well worth the extra expense. However, there's a shortage of them right now so you may as well stick with what you've got for now but keep an eye out for when the Zimos come back on line. Now, when we're dealing with Lais decoders you'll only be able to program them using the manual programming option on your Z21. Also, some people have reported that they don't like being programmed on main but that's ok as you've already said you are using your program track. The Z21 'read driving behaviour' button on the first screen of cv ptogramming won't work with this decoder. You'll need to go straight to manual. What you have here with your 156 units are two different generations of model which work differently from each other so we need to treat each one differently. Let's start with the newer model unit with the Next18 decoders. Pop the motorised unit onto the program track. Open the CV Programming page on your Z21 app. Once that screen has opened look for the manual tab button at the top if the screen and tap on it which will open a different screen. Then look on the left hand menu and select program track which will change the screen again slightly. Ok, now select cv1 and then click on read cv which should return a value of 3. That will prove that your N18 chip is mounted properly and it's working as it should. If it doesn't read the chip then check that you have got it seated properly in the socket. Also make sure that your program track is clean. At this point it's worth noting that to reset a Lais/ Imperium chip it's cv8=4 which is different from most others that use a value of 8. It might be worth running a reset before you start anything else just in case something has been changed on the chip already. Before you do that put the non-motorised unit on the track along with the motorised unit. Select cv8 and the enter 4 in the value box and tap on program. Assuming that all went well, now we can move onto the next stage. What address are you trying to set for each unit? Lais decoders only support up to address 99 for short addressing in cv1. If you are happy with a short address then just write your one or two digit address into cv1 and program. If you want to use a higher number address then that it's not a problem but you'll need to make the cv changes manually (the Z21 quick address setting won't work) so stay in the manual program track screen. To use a long address you need to work out the values for cv17 and cv18. You can use this calculator. (Just enter a 3 digit or 4 digit address and click on the calculate button). Once you've sorted that you'll also need to make a change in cv29 to enable long addressing. You can work that value out for yourself using this calculator or for now just enter a value of 34 into cv29. which will also turn off dc running ability and railcom which you most likely aren't needing to use anyway. You should now have a 156 that will run (albeit probably in an unrefined manner) using the address you have programmed. Assuming that's the case let's move on to lighting. You'll need to do a bit of re-mapping. First, for the directional lights make the following changes: cv33=3 cv34=6 That should put all your running lights onto F0. If you later find that they are the wrong way around you can simply reverse that to cv33=6 cv34=3 Either way you should now have a combination of white one end and red the other when F0 is on. For the light bar, by default this should be wired to F4 but ideally you want to re-map it to F1 so make this change (so that it will match your other 156): cv35=32 cv38=0 Hopefully you will now find that your light bars switch on and off with F1. Just to add that if you later swap over to a Zimo decoder in the powered unit you will also need to change cv124 to value 128 on just that decoder but that's not an issue with Lais decoders because they don't support function breaking. If all has gone well your N18 fitted 156 should all now be set up and working as you expect. Now, I'm not familiar with the older 6-pin version of the 156 so hopefully John or someone else will step in and help here where I am a bit vague. Anyway, first things first, as John P has already suggested, make sure you have fitted your 6 pin decoders the right way up. It's very easy to get that wrong - we've all been there at some time! It's easy enough to check, if you put the motorised unit on the track and it runs using an address of 3 then its the right way up. If it doesn't run then remove the decoder and put it in the other way up. Once you have figured out the right way up for the motorised unit fit the one in the non-motorised unit the same way. You can run a re-set and set up your address for the two cars in exactly the same way as described above for the N18 fitted train. Again, make sure you are in manual programming and have selected program track in the Z21 app. The directional running lights should, by default, work correctly when you switch on F0. There shouldn't be any need to do any re-mapping. Now we come to the light bar and this is where I'm on unfamiliar territory with the older 6-pin version of the 156. Do you have the original instruction leaflet that came with it because that may help. First we need to establish whether or not the light bar is even wired so that it can be switched by the decoder. The earlier Dapol 6 pin decoders (up to Imperium 4) were only 2 functions, both of which were used for the running lights so wouldn't have been able to control the light bar aswell. The Imperium 5 is, I think, a 4 function chip but that won't necessarily help if the 156 wasn't originally wired for that and I'm not even sure that would be possible because the F1 and F2 outputs aren't on the pins so unless the chip was pre-fitted and the wires attached to the solder pads it wouldn't work without additional wiring anyway. I have read that there should be a switch on the underside of the carriage to turn the light bar on or off. Make sure that is switched on. With all of your functions switched off, put the unit on the track. If the light bar lights up straightaway then it's most likely wired straight to the pick ups (like on the Mk3 coaches) and you won't be able to control it with your dcc functions without modification. If it doesn't light up straightaway that's good news. Try Function 1 or Function 2 and hopefully one of those will switch it on or off. If the light bar isn't wired to the decoder then you can modify it by soldering one of the light bar power wires to the decoder pads I'm not sure how easy that is with an Imperium decoder but should be possible if you can identify the F1 solder pad. Someone on here will be able to advise on that. I hope all of that makes sense. Please do report back on how you get on.

Funny that . . . !!! They are a company that makes some excellent products but I do find that they are very clever at blurring the lines between self promotional marketing and offering technical advice. You've got to admire them for that!

I agree with you there! In the meantime, I'm intrigued to know from @TEAMYAKIMA what this so called "brand x" controller is that costs £1,000+ and is so complicated that even experienced dcc modelers can't figure out how it works. That presumably also includes everyone on here who apparently haven't been able to help either. All I can add to this is that I'm very happy that in choosing a Z21 control system, I have the best control system for me. I've not had to rely upon anyone else to show me how it works and it does everything I need it to most efficiently and in a way that suits me. That's all that matters and it will see me through anything I may wish to do in the future (and it didn't cost £1,000). I'm sure that many others on here are likewise suitably happy that they own the best system for them, whatever that system is. It would actually be more helpful to hear from people who aren't happy with their control systems and to understand why, or to hear from people who would choose something different if starting out again. Those sort of experiences are much more likely to be valuable to new dcc modelers. Don't ask "what's best?" ask "what's worst?".

The Dapol light bars are great but you need a bit more physical force than you instinctively want to give it in order to push them into the clips which hold it in place in the roof section. Just push down with the soft part of your thumb until it clicks in (you don't need to stick it in place). Fit the light bar before fitting the decoder as you may need to ease the pcb up very slightly to get the plug on the light bar cable into the socket past the back row of seats (if its similar to my 153s). [EDIT: If you are fitting light bars to the new Dapol DMUs then what I have described above about clicking it into the clips should apply. If you are fitting them to Mk3 coaches then for some reason the clips/runners don't hold the light bar so it will need to be held in place with something - a little double sided tape is ideal.] Depending on how you want to operate the running lights, you may need to do a bit of function mapping. By default Dapol wire the lights separately to the function layouts with N18 chips which gives you more switching options and is helpful if you plan to consist them. If on the other hand you are running each dmu alone you are likely to want to run them as you would with a 6 pin decoder i.e. F0f & F0r switching between white or red combinations at each end. To achieve that set cv33 to value 6 and cv34 to value 9 (or the other way around). The light bar switching, by default, is wired to F4 which may or may not be an issue depending on the decoder you are using. If your decoder supports break button functions then it is probable that F4 is set as SUSI. If that's the case it won't switch the light bar on F4 so you'll need to switch off the SUSI operation. You'll need to check your decoder manual to see how to do that but for Zimo, for example, it's cv124=128. If your decoder doesn't support Susi then it's likely that F4 will work out of the box. Once you've sorted out the SUSI issue, if applicable, you can re-map F4 output to be controlled by F1 if you really want to but there's little benefit in that when using a Z21.

It's really up to you whether you want it to have the same address or a different address. Either way, it's easy enough to program with your Z21. You may find that if you put it on the program track you''ll be able to program it by sending manual program cv intructions even though you won't be able to read the cv settings. If that doesn't work for you then put the motorised unit on the program track with it and change all the cv settings for both units to whatever you want for the non-powered unit (if you are setting up directional lighting for F0 then, with a GF model, you may need to change the direction of travel cv calue in cv29 (read the current value and if it's even add 1 to the value and program - if it's odd then subtract 1, program, and then add 1 and program again). Once you have it all set up the way you want remove the unpowered unit and then restore the original cv settings to the powered unit.

Connecting to a local area network or to a router does not necessarily imply a connection to the internet. An internet connection only exists if a device on that network has a connection to the internet. Your home broadband router, for example, has a built in modem which enables it to connect to the internet through a telephone or fibre optic cable. Your Z21 router isn't usually connected to your home broadband router network and is unlikely to have its own connection to the internet. iPAD > connected to the Z21 router = no internet, because there isn't (unless you've connected your Z21 router by ethernet lan to your home broadband router - which you don'tneed to do). > connected to the internet = not connected to the Z21 router (unless as above Z21 router is connected by ethernet cable to your broadband router). As Jose says, switch off automatic connection to other networks on your ipad or it will search for a wifi connection that is connected to the internet and switch when it finds one. iPHONE > you may have a mobile data connection and if you have then you probably won't get a no internet notification unless you look at the wifi settings or turn mobile data off > it should connect ok to the Z21 router but if you find it switches to another network then do the same as for the ipad and turn off auto connect to other networks. If none of that solves your problem go out and buy yourself an Android tablet and save yourself a lot of trouble!

Is what you are looking for to have directional lighting on F0? i.e. white on front and red at back when going forward and the opposite way around for reverse? Assuming it is then cv33 and cv34 are what you need to focus on as these are what control: cv33 = F0 forward cv34 = F0 reverse So with a value of 5 for cv33 that's switching bits 0 and 2 with a value of 3 for cv 34 that's switching bits 0 and 1 This therefore can't be right because whichever direction you are going it is activating bit 0 which is most likely your forward white light. If 0 and 2 is correct for going forward then the reverse direction should be 1 and 3 which is a cv34 value of 10. Give that a try. cv33=5. cv34=10 and set cv35 and cv36 both to zero for now because that's just complicating things. If that's right except that they come on the wrong way around for the direction of travel simply reverse them to cv33=10 and cv34=5

This is because of how Dapol wire the lighting outputs for a N18 decoder. If you refer to the Dapol sheet provided with the loco it will tell which function outputs are wired to which lights. Re-mapping the front and rear lighting so that they work with F0F and F0R is fairly straightforward. Just follow the cv changes as described by your decoder manufacturer. Assuming that DCC Concepts follow NMRA standards then the following should make it all work for you: cv33 = 9 cv34 = 6

Sorry, I've just realised that we may be all heading up the wrong path here. If the decoder is following standard NMRA protocol then your 'green wire' (which is accessory function FA1) can only be operated by F0f F0r F1 or F2. The table below is taken from a Zimo manual but it shows the offset that exists in the NMRA standard which is quite limiting. ZImo does have a work around for this which is specific to their decoders (cv61=97 which removes the offset). Unless TMC has something similar then you may have to stick with F1 or F2 I'm afraid.