ITG

Thanks for responses, and link to earlier subject. I hadn’t thought about the double isolated section, to overcome risk of a metal wheel or pick-up bridging the single gap. Must say, I like the simplicity and effectiveness of the unconnected track with a work gang on site

Perhaps I should add that I used insulated rail joiners on the inner rails of the points (Maybe overkill on these dead frog points?), Hornby points spring clips and have multiple dropper power feeds all over layout.

Hi, on a restart/rebuild of my DCC layout, I’m thinking I could have a short spur which could double as a programming track. I have a Prodigy Advance 2 with separate outputs for main and programming. So I’d want to be able to leave this spur as connected but switchable to either/or, but obviously not both. I have some spare switches but not sure what they are. Each has 6 terminals, and the switch throws up-centre-down. Am I safe to assume this will be on1-off-on2? So, with 2 wires from bus, and 2 from prog output, what is purpose of 6 terminals? Or is this not the right switch? I’m sure this is a Simple question for many, so I hope you can explain. thanks Ian

Whilst I’m aware I’m not really answering the specifics of your dilemma, it may be helpful to share my experiences of using settrack curved points. I returned to the hobby after a 50 (!) year gap, and commenced with a layout initially using settrack but gravitating to a mix with Streamline. I planned to use a number of settrack curved points. My experience showed this: 1. when laid well, on flat baseboard, I have had no trouble with them. They are in a curve, splitting into 2nd and 3rd radius to form a double-ended loop. 2. Elsewhere on the layout, I had some trouble with baseboard warping (sundeala - never again) and a curved point laid there from a 3rd radius curve into a 2nd radius reverse loop, proved impossible to get trouble free running. No matter how much I tried to pad the undulations to achieve a smooth surface, it never worked satisfactorily. When it seemed ok for loco one, then loco two wouldn’t handle it. And vice versa. 3. I also have a curved point crossover which is fine. Note these are current model points. I have read they have evolved over the years and may be better now than before. In a rebuild of this layout (mainly to overcome baseboard and other shortcomings) I will be using a small number of settrack curved points again. Hope that may be some help.

One thing to consider, which you’ve hinted at, is access across 140cm board width. I calculate to be approx 55”, and I would want to work at arms length, laying track, ballasting, making scenery etc at much more than 30-36”. Unless you have access all around the board? And if not motorising points, how will you reach those in the top corner, as that Diagonal distance is even further? What about derailments at that distance? I am not familiar with Hornby track numbers, but I suspect you are using R1 curves on the inner circuit? Bear in mind that some locos (particularly longer wheelbase steam) will not run comfortably on them. If all you want to do is run locos/trains, then maybe fair enough, but not much space for any scenic effect. And where will non-used stock stand with precious little siding or loop space? could it be worth starting a simpler, less busy track plan, and getting a feel for things (not least what you like/dislike) before developing a complex layout? i do buy in to the idea of Rule 1 “it’s my layout...” but my concern is that you may tire of just seeing trains go round and round. I come at this as a relatively inexperienced modeller, and definitely not a rivet counter, but all things that I too am confronting on my developing thinking. hope you can pick something out of all that?

Whilst what follows won’t affect DMU, EMUs or HST, if you ever run a loco + carriages combination, remember that the lengths allowed for platforms will presumably need to cater for whatever on-track uncoupling mechanism you use. That is, if you want your incoming loco to uncouple and pull forward, (so another loco can couple to other end of train) that’s a couple of extra cms needed. By similar logic, if a shunter pushes in x carriages, then wants to uncouple and withdraw, if you want the entire train to align with a platform length, the siting of the uncoupling ramp is key. and of course, if there’s any bend in track, even through crossovers, the parked uncoupled vehicles/train need to stand clear enough for any overhang from adjacent parallel track . i know this as I’ve already made that mistake and didn’t allow enough room for the above manoeuvres!

I don’t use N, but at 2mm to the foot, doesn’t that mean 5 feet away. Even allowing for overhang of carriage, sounds a long way.

My suggestion would be that you don’t let your technical skill/knowledge limitations Inhibit the effectiveness of the track plan, as you’ll then probably end up with something that has little long lasting appeal or is unworkable in a running trains sense. Why not keep it simple (one circuit with a passing loop and a couple of sidings), build it, wire it, run it. Then you’ll be learning as you go, and be able to then expand the track plan at a later stage. Get the planning right and stage 2 will add to stage 1 with minimum disruption.

Seems an unusual layout. Why have a twin circuit that crosses over itself? That would inhibit the relaxed viewing of trains going round, for fear of accidents! Seems impossible to cross from one circuit to the other, ie a lack of crossovers. All your stock would be permanently stuck on one circuit. All sidings would mean shunting onto a running line. What about a station of any kind? The sidings seem set apart from any infrastructure or continuity. Can you access all around the board, as your arms won’t extend across 4’ if reaching from one side? With a 4’ board, whilst I’m not familiar with Hornby but I think their R4 is 572mm radius. Remember, radii quoted are normally to the centre of the track not outside edge. So twice 572 adds up to over 45” Add on another couple of inches for the outside edge of sleepers and you won’t have a lot of space around the edges. Although you quoted using Peco, the same principle applies with space and U-bend curves. Dangerous with any derailment, if stock falls from a high baseboard. Which locos move will depend on the use of points which have an isolating effect (whether live or dead frog) and/or how you wire the whole layout. Ie where the power feeds are. For example, if the points (feeding off the circuits) in top left and bottom left are set into the sidings, you could isolate sections of the running line (which may not have been your intention). Good luck. You’re in the right place as I’m still learning from this forum.

Others more experienced than myself will have more to insight and comment on the layout plan, but to export from Anyrail, go to File > Export as > Picture (jpeg etc), and save where you wish. Then post that picture on this site, either by drag or attach. as for layout, a couple of thoughts from one who is still going through similar learning! First thing is to define what you want. This layout will give lots of opportunity to watch trains going round, but where are they going to/coming from? But it’s yours, so just always bear that in mind. 1. tunnel - is that just a tunnel or a fiddle yard within? If the latter, remember to allow for access. 2. some track formations that are reminiscent of a vintage Hornby track plans book. Eg the third siding in centre with dual access road, 3. if turntable fails, you cannot get a loco from shed to running lines. (Maybe more of a prototype problem than model) 4. sidings at bottom left have tricky access and capacity. Good luck.

Thanks Trofimow. Forgot to ask, which width did you use as being right for 00? i can see the sheets being useful for multiple tracked areas, but for single or double running lines maybe strips are better.

I too am interested In this. Trofimow and RFS - can I ask, what colour is the foam you use? And does it need painting? And do you then add loose ballast on top in the normal fashion? thanks ian

Well, David, is there no limit to the boundaries of your insight? Made me smile. Although maybe a legal mind would have inserted the word ‘allegedly’ a few times In your posting. But thank you once again. I’m not ready yet to act upon this particular matter, as I’m still trying to acquire baseboards/materials, but I am amassing a wealth of learning from RMWeb.

I’m in - a worthwhile cause and effort by all. Wonder if I’ll have the stress of having to make a decision about a prize? Oh well, gotta take that risk.

Some great ideas thanks all. I currently have a couple of IR sensors (Heathcote Electronics) which work well on a single out of sight ‘passing loop’ but this time, especially with more roads, I’m keen to know what is on the road, not just that it’s occupied or not. So the camera idea is a possibility but I hadn’t thought of a reversing camera - even though back to front. And I’m sure I must have an old phone or two somewhere to try.

Technically it’s not a fiddle yard, so much as a staging yard, as I don’t intend to shuffle/rearrange rolling stock/locos on trains. It will have a fan of points at either end, and I’m pondering putting a removable lid on it, which would have a scenic top. The intention would be to only remove this lid for maintenance or recovery of derailment etc. I want to hold trains there off scene to represent the rest of the country. i could use infra red detectors to tell me which of the 5 lines are occupied, but then I’d need a system to remind what is where. I’ve read of some modellers using a digital camera linked to a monitor screen. so a few questions. 1. what sort of camera? 2. where would I get one? 3. what sort of range (ie span) would such a camera have? Ie would it cover the entry of 5 roads? Any other experiences or comments would be helpful. thanks Ian

I have a Prodigy Advance 2, and added the DCC05 wife unit (just over £100, I recall). Not sure if that’s what you meant by Dongle? the handset remains a wired connection back to the base unit. But for the overall control, I can use my tablet/ smart phone with the app WiThrottle which is of course wirelessly linked. Easy to set up and effective control of locos, but as far as I have been able to work out, if you wish to control points (as accessories), you first need to set them up in JMRI (Free download on pc), in order that WiThrottle can see them.

Great. Thanks both of you. Another component in the plan is ticked.

Bluetacks a possibility I suppose, thought the lumpiness may inhibit accuracy of alignment. Just browsing through adhesive double sided tape, with low tack on one side. Wonder how that would fare between 2 paper surfaces.

Still twiddling, but as my thoughts - not yet actions - turn to laying the layout out using Peco Points paper templates on rolls of wallpaper I’ve just found in a garage tidy-up, a question occurred to me. What do people use to fix/stick the templates to whatever surface (wallpaper in my case), in such a way that allows fine-tuning changes and repositioning? Something of a post-it note type of thing, I guess. Ideally, it would be great if I could roll/fold up the finished article later, as I really have to do this exercise in the garage floor on hands and knees (believe it or not, a carpeted garage courtesy of previous house owner), as the layout room still has current layout in it. I really want to do this at this stage, because it will inform the baseboard dimensions rather than relying solely on Anyrail on screen.

CDG - aah, I see now. A picture paints a thousand words. I thought you meant N as in diagonal bracing under the board. I see from the Aluminium Warehouse website (and indeed other similar), that they do supply ready-made push-in joining brackets. Does the fact that you used corner support plates suggest you’re not a fan of the off-the-shelf brackets, or was that simply due to what you needed for the lighting frame needed heavier duty support than what I would? Although the 150mm (approx) legs will only be directly over the lower, much narrower board (Approx 300mm). The upper board will be 750mm, so will project another 450mm, out over cupboard tops. So those legs will be longer, but same principle applies. I plan to use this metal framework for all of the upper board along that wall (3.5m) as if I use deeper bracing, it will inhibit my reaching up and into the lower baseboard tracks.

Chimer - yes, I’d seen those tubes without the fin, but was just pondering as to whether that was any advantage or not. The lower board will only be 12” (300mm) wide apart from maybe at ends for the curves, so should be easy to avoid trackwork. There will be cupboards of some kind below the whole lot, so leg supports from top board can sit on them. CDG - I assume by ‘n’ you meant ‘N’? If so, did you find angled brackets to create the N.? I could only see 90 degree vertical and/or horizontal brackets. Or did you cut aluminium to shape to give the angle? 3% is the current layout; the new one will be 2%. The gap from top to bottom board surfaces will be 150mm (6”) and as lower board will be largely only 12” wide, I figure I will be able to reach up to access any derailments etc. (This is a key learning point from earlier layout). Thanks both Ian

I’m still thinking about how to frame/ brace the upper board, so as to allow maximum clearance for easy access to lower board. I’m planning on 6” difference in height which means traditional 100mm ply vertical bracing will make the access gap rather tight. What about metal (steel or aluminium) tubing, as used for shelving or furniture frames? Has anyone tried? I realise that surface board would still need screwing/bolting to frame to provide strength. Specifically, I found this (photo below) which can also provide a lip in which 12 or 15mm ply surface board could sit. What do you think?

I certainly don’t class myself as expert on this, but judging from Scottysnitch trackplan, as 00 small radius point is 125mm long (5”?) that bottom right hand headshunt looks to be some way less than that.

I found these Wago connectors very useful for connecting droppers to the bus, and other similar. They come in various sizes from 2 to 5 wire, use no solder, work with pretty much all gauges of wire and are re-usable. I think they may now have a double one, so that both + & - can run parallel through them. Screwfix sell them, as do numerous online outlets.