Hitchin Junction

I'm more interested in decnt looking working single point turnouts and junctions. A friend showed me a post on Tramfare that looks like someone is working on those. Hopefully in my lifetime . . . Tim

It would be a disaster for super-super-detailed models though. Tim

I'm still curious about how the points would work if you finished them. Tim

All PECO US style track has those way over scale pair of head block ties, ( = throw bar sleepers) which show up in all the magazine layout photos. A relic of the mounting of the standard UK PECO point motor apparently. The new US code 70 is supposed to finally be having decent machined point rails, instead of the pressed thin sheet metal "half" ones on the US code 83. But it looks as though they will still require cut away stock rail bases. Tim

I presume you've tried hand-laid? The "ACCU-TRAK" elist is usually very helpful. Tim

Actually, those are after my time. But with all those straight and smooth surfaces, they would be a doddle to make as an etched kit. But then I'm a 4mm modeller. Tim.

That's the problem with actually making your own accurate scale models. You don't get to make an unboxing video! :( Tim

Central Valley Model Works in California provides plastic based track and turnouts for code 70. Tim

Yet new ones keep on coming, at remarkably high prices. . . . . . something is wrong with this picture. I've often wondered what the benefit of magazines is, if instead there were maybe a dozen great and equally well advertised books covering the various railway modelling subjects. Tim PS. They would presumably save an awful lot of "same old" forum question posts too

OTOH, using more flexible production methods which are not affected by economies of scale, means that production can be turned on and off, repeatedly or even ramped up and down rather like using a tap. It's not as if models are perishable. Freshly baked bread isn't a good comparison example. Although the costs may be somewhat higher, you always meet the market demands, and the same production system means that a much wider range of all your products are always available in parallel, all older ones as well as continually added new ones. Tim

If you can hand operate a live frog point by hand, you can also hand throw a panel toggle switch to flip the frog power. I grew up in post-war austerity Britain. So my experience is that you get more layout if you only buy what you actually need. An interesting irony is that the prevailing trend to use inexpensive servos to save money over stall motors, would appear from the postings earlier to be truly successful only if you use the higher price quality servos. Tim

Frog juicers are only actually needed for turnouts requiring powered frogs, but that you don't set (or can't set) to allow for the direction the train is going. Those include spring switches or diamond crossings not direction controlled by a nearby turnout setting. They detect the momentary short circuit of the powered frog gap being "closed" by a metal wheel rolling over the gapped rail joint and switch the frog power as needed. Compared to using the frog powering contacts provided on most stall motor products, Juicers are way more expensive. And they don't use any less wires. And if you have a habit of trying to run your trains through wrongly set trailing points, They will help you derail them completely . Tim

Wasn't 3-6 gauge a common UK tram standard? Tim

Why couldn't this have been a regular elist or forum, instead of on Facebook? I was an avid long ago user and current progressing modeller of the of the Jazz service but I'm definitely not signing into Facebook to share it. Tim

It's not open to all. It's only open to people who don't mind signing up to Facebook. Tim

But sellers always prefer taking your money to keeping their great value. Tim

My impression of Cobalts when they first appeared was "Why are they so expensive?" I can understand someone wanting to make less costly versions of Tortoises, but not more expensive ones. Subsequently, I've noted so many post introduction changes and new versions, I concluded that the design was not fully understood and thought through, nor sufficiently tested prior to original shipping. Tim

Value is in the eye (and the pocket depth) of the beholder. When will average model enthusiasts realise you can pay for the tooling AND the first sheet of 300 x 200 mm brass from an etcher for around half the money than just any one of those items. Simple, often free, CAD takes all the accurate measuring out of the task. If you put tabs on connecting parts and use glue instead of solder, a great looking body and chassis can easily be assembled in a matter of days. The "deep state" hobby of precision model making is doing just fine without visiting any box shifters. :) Tim

As a practical example I used 22 ga single bare tinned copper (non -insulated) wire as the two circular loop DCC buses (+ and - separately) around my old 10 M long by 4 M wide oval. Advantage one was that as the wire had no insulation, it was thin enough to lay on the top surface of the baseboard and disguise under ballast and the various scenic scenic ground surfaces. Advantage two was no under layout crawling to install. Advantage three was that there was no insulation to strip off when soldering to connect the many feeders to the rails and the feeder length was never more than 50 cm. Advantage four was that short feeders have less length related resistance to worry about, so I was able to use almost invisible 30 ga single bare tinned copper wire (again without any insulation) just on the surface and through the ballast to thread the feeders in between the sleeper to access and and solder to individual rails in even complex track formations. I too used wire resistance tables to come up with my wire diameters before I used this type of construction. So I wasn't expecting any nasty surprises and I didn't get any. The lack of insulation on the wiring definitely increased the wire current carrying limits . In practice, the short circuit breakers worked fine, and even locos with heavy trains running at full speed, or a crawl, showed no discernible speed reduction at the far ends of the layout. Unfortunately that layout was taken down due to a home move and I don't have pictures as I never got around to making any worthwhile scenery. But I shall use the same construction on my next and hopefully longer lasting layout. Tim

Are you saying that you can't get 5 copies, decide you don't want more, and then stop? Tim

I'm certainly appreciative of the fine models, but at least they are powered by relatively harmless modern small electric motors. This particular prototype "Modernisation", at least by bring the country back eventually to mostly electric traction, had far more national benefits that outweighed just losing magnificent pieces of Victorian mechanical machinery technology. Truthfully, I was actually not able to sleep in non-grey sheets until my local commuter line was electrified in the 60's. But on a more serious note, I never met my maternal grandfather. He was a loco driver on the same line, but died in his early 50's from lung disease, caused or exacerbated by his job. I'm sure he was one of the many adversely effected by too much coal dust in their lives. Tim

Speaking as a former 305 rider (out of Liverpool Street), That's beautiful job. Back in 1960, those were brand new and in the original darker green that for few short years was so much nicer than then current lighter green of the original Shenfield stock. The Chingford stock had the larger windows of course, but converting the DC kits to those realistically would require a great deal more precision work. The other difficulty is of course the slightly proud (unique?) inset window frames and the indentations by them to allow for the vertical windows to be set into the curved metal sides. Not easy to do in 4mm scale. Tim

I dug out some of my limited amount of old Hartel Track and measured their radii approximately with a ruler. That gave me 180 mm and 225 mm, inner and outer. The turnouts are a little strange as they have a radius curvature "step" and an optional extension piece to allow modellers to create other complex track couble track configurations using just one size of turnout. Overall, I think I prefer to imitate the prototype track dimensions and appearance as much as possible, even if it means a little extra work. Tim

To stay specific to switch motors, my point blades change position when I tell them to. They only require the handy 12 v dc that is always around layouts, the crossing vee polarity contacts are built in and they draw just tens of milliamps without creating any nasty spikes to upset my much more usefully used elsewhere state of the art electronics. What extra do your point blades do? Tim

I've never had an issue with using inexpensive stall motors. They don't fundamentally need centering or left/right limit settings, nor the addition of servo control electronics and I'm still using some I acquired 50 years ago. Converting simple +/-12 v DC push buttons to DCC in order to justify adding expensive static DCC decoders to your motors, seems like a great way to finance the auxiliary, exciting, technologically advanced, expensive (and mostly unnecessary) MR hobby electronics industry. Tim