MidlandRed

Interesting info - as I say - I suspect based on the paint colour of the arms which really are a shade of yellow - are railway colour light signals ever really yellow - even the most up to date LED ones (I must check on old BS colour shades - is it chrome yellow; hookes green etc etc on plans (blast from the past..)!! Seriously, railway colour lights are surely closer to orange in reality, than yellow (and thus amber) - or maybe I’m part colour blind!!! But I can see why, when running two systems on the railways (semaphore and colour light) it would make sense to perpetuate the ‘yellow’ semaphore terminology whereas highway legislation and equipment was starting from scratch without the need to embrace two systems side by side. I really don’t have a problem with the railway industry calling the aspect yellow btw, I was just musing on the inconsistency across industries and expanding on the previous posts in this thread on the subject.

Absolutely - anyone pronouncing it shrews bury is surely wrong, and gets strange looks from locals. I think the history of the County/region being called Salop extends back a lot further than Shrewsbury as such - in more recent years the County was called Salop, only being changed to Shropshire (with some opposition in 1972) - as the administrative centre and county town is Shrewsbury, you can see why remote burocracies like railway companies might get confused - I don’t think the station’s ever been called Salop but the loco sheds were? Presumably even the railway companies realised calling the station Salop might be confusing (or maybe the locals corrected them!!!)

A major gripe is the tendency of some enthusiasts to call the town (and railway junction/extreme signal box and associated railway establishments) Salop - although Shrewsbury is a historic market town and also the County town, Salop is actually to the normal populace a shortened name for the County of Shropshire, which contains a further 17 market towns, far flung places like Whitchurch, Oswestry, Ludlow, Bridgnorth, Market Drayton and (though no longer in the administrative Authority area), Telford, Wellington, Ironbridge. I’m aware ex railway men have a bit of an excuse because both the LMS and GWR referred to Shrewsbury incorrectly as Salop, and as with many things railway, the error has been carried forward by grandfather rights!! When I hear it, it makes me chuckle, and wondering why in the same vein Eastleigh couldn’t be referred to as Hants or Ashford as Kent, Swindon as Wilts - well of course they wouldn’t!! That would be bonkers haha!! And another thing - I also find the double yellow, single yellow thing odd - I wonder whether it may originate from the fact distant signals were painted ‘yellow’, not amber, and again this could have carried forward by grandfather rights (another example). One hopes no poor railwaymen have done their driving test (the one for the highway), and in being asked the sequence of traffic signals from red didn’t blurt out yellow…… highway traffic signals (and warning lights) are called amber - by TSRGD legislation - including the one shown at a level crossing!! The appropriate traffic signal aspect is also referred to as amber in the 1933 Report of the Departmental Committee on Traffic Signs (set up to review and update the definitions for traffic signs covered in section 48 of the Road Traffic Act, 1930, and comprising a forerunner of subsequent SIs, where all the layouts, and legal background are covered. It’s not entirely clear why the railway is out of step with this use of the word amber??!!! My suggestion above may possibly point to it!!

I’m quite surprised to see the number of D95xx there - were they a feature at most of the S Wales depots and stabling points in that era?

A bit off topic but......I can’t help thinking this reason is a little odd given they would have had the same power equipment, slightly less weight and slightly lower seating capacity than the pair of 121s? Also the lack of two cabs per unit, non suburban seating arrangement and gangway connection (LMS style) would suggest that unless they were clapped out mechanically or bodywork wise, they would have been a better bet for passengers and virtually no different operationally. They certainly didn’t seem to perform any worse during their nearly 10 years around Birmingham in their earlier days than any other DMU and were certainly amongst the most comfortable to travel in - which they continued to demonstrate on the Cambrian lines. Perhaps Reading had greater need for 2 car units. Sorry to show my ignorance but are those superb 60s shed photos at Radyr?

Off topic but didn’t one of these class 37s slide a considerable way down a steep embankment in one of the Welsh Valleys, not being recovered (with some difficulty) for many months? I think it was green syp IIRC (but may have misremembered that)!!

I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of at least one of the London class 121 units in blue syp (as an aside, also M55003 - that photo was in Railway Magazine on a Stratford-Leamington working). I wonder if it actually is W55034 in the Weymouth photo - seems entirely possible if Bristol was short of units and it may have been a short term loan en route back from overhaul? The Yeovil shuttles went over to single cars at the beginning of 1967 as the railbuses were transferred to Scotland. It would be great to confirm, if you do have - however those tiny numbers on the early blue DMU repaints are notoriously difficult to identify from any distance - it would be interesting to know the date of this photo at Weymouth as well!!

From the info above, and knowledge that W55032 appeared to go directly to bfye, that car is possibly either W55033 or 55035. There were three power twin class 119s which were allocated to Bristol originally. I've seen a photo of one of them on the Clevedon branch, also green with speed whiskers.

The line seems to have been worked by Bristol based single car units. As well as services around Bristol such as the Severn Beach branch, Bristol also appears to have provided cars for the Yeovil shuttles - from July 1966-January 1967 these were operated by railbuses W79975/76 but these were replaced by class 122 cars and the railbuses transferred to Scotland. According to Railcar.co.uk, the following class 122 and 121 cars were allocated to Bristol:- W55001 - Oct 67- Jun 69 (transferred to Departmental stock after this) W55013 - May 64 - May 68 W55014 - Dec 60 - July 62 W55018 - Aug 70 - Nov 70 W55020 - Jun 85 - May 86 W55023 - July 83 - Sept 83 (on loan) W55026 - Nov 74 - Mar 75; Oct 82 - June 85 W55027 - Jul 72 - May 73 W55028 - Jun 69 - Aug 70 W55032 - (New) Dec 60 - Nov 70; May 71 - Oct 82 W55033 - (New) Dec 60 - Jun 62; Jul 62 - Sept 62; Oct 65 - Oct 82 W55034 - (New) Jan 61 - Nov 64; Aug 68 - Nov 68; Feb 71 - May 77 W55035 - Oct 67 - May 77 When the ex Southern branches east of Exeter (eg Sidmouth) were dieselised, a number of Laira-based single cars were used (amongst other stock) - W55015 is listed as a Laira car, transferred on its replacement in the London Division when some of the class 121 cars were allocated there new in 1960, until transfer to the ScR in 1968 - is it possible it was loaned to Bristol or was interchanged with one of the cars on the branches or at Yeovil during the period before most of those services were withdrawn - W55015 was also a very early repaint in rail blue syp/red buffer beam/white cab roof, being noted as such on the Looe branch at the beginning of 1967. I'm sure I've seen a photo of W55014 on the Yeovil shuttles (possibly Railway Magazine from the 1967 era), but apart from the brief period mentioned above from the allocations on railcar.co.uk that is also shown as a Laira car. It's also possible the WR allocation info is not complete, but the lists above give an indication of the pool of cars from which the Bridport car would be used. Whilst theoretically all the class 122, and W55026-28 could have been used, W55032-35 seem to be the most consistent of the Bristol allocation over the period until the branch closed.

Based on the original query (which I just noticed was in 2016...... but might as well), these two views of class 86s in 1965 when new give an indication of the apparent ventilator grille colour. Flickr image by Bill Wright - E3163 at Longsight DED Aug 1965 Flickr image by Robert_CWP - E3163 (and E3161) at Nuneaton - new - 1965 In the second (black and white) image, the grilles look black compared with the body colour - and the loco probably does not have a yellow warning panel. The first image shows very clearly the loco in rail blue with red buffer beams (with E3101 behind it) - the grilles look generally black but there appears to be bits of rail blue and either brake dust or rust on them also - perhaps the outer slats were rail blue but they look generally black because of the filters behind? Fabulous picture of an AL6 almost new - but now having received its yellow warning panel - note the first new ones from Doncaster and Vulcan had red buffer beams (E3101-7?, E3161-9) - subsequent deliveries had rail blue buffer beams from new.

Knowle and Dorridge is another interesting location - much closer to Rover (Solihull Plant) than Longbridge (BMC/Austin plant)

Jon, you may wish to look at this page from Warwickshire Railways - there is a description of the traffic at Gosford Green from 1952/3 from someone who went to school adjacent to there - at that time (which slightly post dates your period), it's described as two sidings receiving train loads of bogie, curtain sided wagons loaded with car bodies which seem to have been transferred to road vehicles for the short distance to the Rootes works at Humber Road. There is a photo of a Humber Hawk body on a rack on the back of a truck - I've attached the link but you need to page down a bit to get to Gosford Green. In terms of the route taken, certainly in later years via Leamington and along the LMS to Coventry and Three Spires Junction, reversing down the loop line (as Humber Road junction at the southern end was closed during the WMCL electrification. NB Morris Engines also had a set of sidings off the Coventry avoiding loop line (further north) so would presumably have generated traffic to Cowley in some, if not the same period. The BMC merger with Austin clearly changed things, as did the subsequent BL merger. Below are a couple of links which also show Gosford Green in the late 60s/early 70s, and you can see train loads of Morris Marinas, Hillman Avengers (made at Rootes' Ryton factory out on the A45) - as well as the gantries for loading containers of Rootes part for Hillman Imps, transported to Linwood (bodies built at the adjcent Pressed Steel factory at Linwood). In the background can be seen car transporters, seemingly unloading and the BL car trains have Triumph Dolomites as well as Marinas - presumably these were transported down from their works near Canley, Coventry - the train appears to be 4S64 (0S64 for light engine on the rear cab) which is clearly to one of the destinations in Scotland - there is also a train of Ford vehicles bound for Gosford Green. in 1984 a further example from the Derby Sulzer site shows a class 46 (a couple of days before withdrawal) on 4S64 which by then, was Cowley to Bathgate, and is loaded with Montegos and Maestros. In terms of the traffic to Bordesley, the yard at Bolton Road (between Tyseley and Bordesley) was immense and an interchange point. However there was a SInger Motors factory in Coventry Road, Small Heath and also traffic could have been going to Longbridge (presuming Pressed Steel made bodies for Austin in 1948). The Birmingham area tended to be dominated by car body traffic (on car transporters) from Fisher and Ludlow in Castle Bromwich, which firm was merged with Pressed Steel after the BMC merger in the early 50s. NB you have to page a way down the pages to get to the correct bit. Fascinating subject! It sounds to me like your trains might be covered vans - but would rule 1 let you have completed cars? Cheers, Don. Gosford Green Warwickshire Railways Derby Sulzers 1 Derby Sulzers 2 Derby Sulzers 3

Also stated in Sayer's book on 21/8/63 and 29/9/63 at Aston (though the latter clashes with dynamometer tests, so presumably is an incorrect date). The book states the dynamometer tests ran to Carlisle no 9 (Forks Junction M and C), from Hurlford MPD. Also stated as seen on a test train at Fullwood Junction, Mossend on 10/7/63. Observed running trials on the Clacton line on 29/5/63 (this predates its repaint in two tone green at St Rollox in June 63, released 11/7/63). This loco, as is well known, retained the disc headcodes, unlike the other conversions to class 29. The dynamometer test info is referenced to Nov 63 Railway Observer - the others are not referenced directly. Excellent book (as is the class 28 one from the same author).

I had the dubious pleasure of travelling on one of these in the late 70s one Sunday morning, from Bristol to Weymouth in the height of summer. The train was full to standing capacity of day trippers - many of which were families with young children. I recall thinking this would have been a little nicer if a class 119 or 120!! But felt pleased it wasn't a class 116, which may have been a possibility travelling to other sea side resorts such as the Cambrian Coast! I think it was blue and grey.

You may also find this blog (and book) of interest? It covers the Worcester based single car (initially GWR units) duties and also mentions the Stourbridge Junction ones in passing. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/blog/author-guest-post-steve-bartlett/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!Wj9-gtV01FbBj6P8YeovUGJAzTHhbUzHq-gTaQp0ir0bTDAxVtdsJfoFkAQPlvg$ Now I'm guessing someone may have access to the autumn/winter 1962 carriage working diagrams which would cover the Tyseley (Worcester, Stourbridge Junction, Leamington) single units which might give more detail. In terms of individual cars, I have a book (Heyday of the DMU) with a superb picture of set 103 (most likely W55005) at Ironbridge and Broseley - with a porter wheeling a trolley of parcels to it - several days before closure in 1963 - with Hartlebury on the blind. The photo at Linley on the disused station website may well be the same unit although the set number in the windscreen can't be read - it's around the same date as the photo of W55005. There are also photos of 55009 working from Worcester on the RCTS site, and W55012 at an unknown location but with Wellington on the blind on railcar.co.uk. This suggests a random selection of Tyseley cars were outbased at Worcester. I'm reminded that the section between Hartlebury and Bewdley was operated by class 122 bubble cars until closure in 1970 - some of the units were in various versions of clue livery at that stage.

I don't know the answer to this question but W55012 and W55018 were, according to the info on railcar.co.uk, transferred from the London Division to Tyseley at the beginning of 1961 (presumably as a result of receipt of class 121 units) - they were joined by W55017, 19 from Laira from autumn 1962 and for a short time W55013 also. Tyseley already had W55002-10 from new, So is it possible the use of the bubble cars was extended when additional units were transferred in?

Interesting. These locos, when new, were quite stunning just in the plain electric blue with the extensive white trim, and red buffer beams - the stainless steel raised numerals and cast British Railways emblem set this off superbly also - so a bit of a design classic in my view - they were, for a few years, a very bright and modern vision in a sea of grey looking steam locos (and often diesels), and contrasted with the generally lined maroon coaches they appeared with. For me, BR got the livery on these right - the stainless bands on your loco reminds me of the Bristol/ECW Railbuses, of which there were two. There was Design Panel involvement also. Lovely model again. Many of us think the chromatic blue was actually rail blue, but as a result of the 'eggshell' matt type of finish used initially, the stock could look a different colour even though it wasn't!! Colour photo rendering also contributes, as does the extent of the yellow warning panel.

I noted pairs of NBL Type 2s on holiday in July 67 on Teignmouth or Dawlish sea walls - D6318 (blue FYE) with D6316 (green) on 2C96, and D6318 with D6321 (green) on 2C90 - I haven't a clue what time of day, but on both occasions they were the last trains recorded, suggesting 6 pm or later. Interesting about the introduction of these locos to the Gloucester area - from Volume 4A: Gloucester Midland Lines Part 2: South - D95xx are shown on the Nailsworth/Stroud branch in mid 1966, and D9500 (in several photos, allocated at Bath Road but seemingly working from Gloucester) is quoted as placed in store several weeks later (the branch also closed around the same time), D9500 being reinstated according to the book, about 6 months later. There are photos of several others of the class on the branch. There are also photos of them at Dursley. My spotting notes which I still have date from 1967-69, and every trip from Birmingham to Bristol or Cardiff shows several D63xx recorded - these were either at Gloucester, or at various locations such as Lydney, Dursley branch and others, whilst I was on the train beyond Gloucester. The only D95xx recorded were either at Canton, or in store at Worcester. Is it possible the D63xx ousted the D95xx on these duties in late 1966? This seems to have coincided with an exodus of stock from the WR (EE Type 3; class 116; Railbuses; the first of several class 122 to ScR). A major change in that period was the closure of the withered arm - did this free up class 22s? They were certainly used on the Barnstaple - Meeth workings in the later 60s, until the influx of class 25s to replace them, but were on these Gloucester workings for several years.

I have a colour slide taken by my father in the summer of 1965 of D7096 on a postal train, at Penzance. Recent curiosity about this led me to look at the Hymek allocations on BR database and this loco was one of a number allocated to Laira at the time. They were also used on Motorail trains in Cornwall (mentioned in the Motorail thread on this site).

If you're into 9Fs that book is excellent. The BR1G tender with the indented sides enabled better visibility running tender first - the original WR batch used on the Ebbw Vale ore trains (which involved banking) had these - as did the WR 92203-92250 batch. 92079 also received one of these in 1956 on allocation to Bromsgrove for banking on Lickey, which involved running back tender first on each job.

Your model is fabulous. FYI I think the AL6 had the same horns as the later class 25 and AM10s (Desilux?). I don't recall the AL1-AL5 having that type of horn sound. Re the earlier discussion about the colour of the cab interior and control desk, a video has appeared on You Tube of a class 90 cab ride from Tamworth to Crewe which shows a good area of the desk - it's a much darker blue than these early locos - looks very impressive though.

Although class 24s (and EE class 40 as bankers from Tyne Yard) started to be used from 1965 most trains were steam hauled until mid 1966, when D5102-5111 had been fitted with air equipment to operate the wagon doors. All but 92065, which moved to Wakefield until withdrawal in early 1967 were withdrawn at Tyne Dock, steam finishing on the Consett workings on 19/11/66.

They were all withdrawn with air pumps fitted. All except 92065 were withdrawn from Tyne Dock, 92065 moving to Wakefield for a few months prior to withdrawal. The first batch was ordered after successful trials on Tyne Dock to Consett with 92037, which emerged as 92060-66, and were sent new in late 1955 on a temporary basis to Wellingborough for work on the Midland Lines in replacement for Crosti boiler locos away at Crewe for modification - they had the space in the running plate for the pumps but they weren't fitted - they were fitted at Crewe and transferred to Tyne Dock between March and May 1956, and joined by new 92097-9 in June/July 1956, which had the pumps fitted from new. The following were noted on unusual trains and could be considered off their patch:- 5 9Fs were loaned to Heaton to cover for diesel failures in 1963 and appeared on workings from York and Tees Yard; 92061 was used on a special freight from Heaton to Millerhill (seen north of Newcastle); 92097 on ecs between Heaton and Newcastle. As with other 9Fs some were recorded on passenger workings:- 92063 - 2/8/58 - 8.15 am Newcastle to Heads of Ayr (to Carlisle) 92066 - 10/9/60 - 10.12 am York to Yarmouth/Lowestoft 92097 - 10/4/65 - RCTS North East Railtour no 2 - Newcastle to Darlington via Consett 92099 - 18/6/66 - Alnmouth to Alnwick locals - last day of steam operation. So apart from a few workings, and the first few months at Wellingborough for the first batch, they don't appear to have been recorded far away from their usual route. After 1963 (and in the case of 92066, 1962) they visited Crewe for repairs (previously Gateshead or Darlington), so would have been seen there, or en route. All info from the RCTS detailed history on the 9Fs (a great book if you're interested in this class of loco).

Thanks for this - it's very interesting - am I right in thinking that D72, 2.3 pm SX Stourbridge - Stratford is likely to have travelled via the OWW (Kidderminster, Worcester, Evesham, Honeybourne) and then north to get to Stratford rather than back via Old Hill, Snow Hill, Tyseley and the North Warwicks?

Off main topic but may be of interest I recorded W51062, W59421, W51090 and W51065, W59424, W51093 in blue syp at Birmingham New Street on 30/8/67. As stated on railcar.co.uk, W51062 in that livery was a photo in the 1970 Ian Allan Combined Volume. Conversely, W51055, W59417, W51083 at BNS in blue/grey fye on 21/8/67 (the first DMU set id seen in this livery). There were a several batch 1 and batch 3 class 120 cross country sets and cars around in the early Swindon blue syp (included red buffer beam and white cab roof). The class 123 sets were employed on Cardiff - Portsmouth in the 60s when quite new.