MidlandRed

I must say when I was around 8 yrs of age myself and a group of friends used to go to the local station after school, with the express intention of spotting the loco on a specific freight train - used to often be a Brit. The station was only used by passenger trains in the peak periods - it closed in 1965. Traffic was quite sparse apart from the occassional freight so in between trains, we would certainly be trespassing - a favourite was placing coins on the track - in the winter when the freight arrived someone had to be on the platform at the last minute and put one of the gas lamps on to see the number...... And back off again before the station staff noticed - the train was between their office and the lamp. So there was significant trespass - and all was well - no one got killed (though some antics were definitely very dodgy) until we were spotted by one of our school teachers on the top deck of a bus travelling over the road bridge next to the station - we saw her as well.... and the following day were hauled into the head teachers office and parents informed. Well at least we weren't off breaking windows or some other mischief.... So i take a slightly more liberal view of this - but not of the seemingly epidemic level of trespass and mis-use of car spray can paint in the south east - some of this seems to be happening in depots even on the outside of units (I saw 377 163 with serious graffiti murals and tags on two carriages this week)..... or on walls with narrow clearance to live 3rd rail - not only the risk of being hit by a train but of slipping and getting lit up (three people did not that long ago near Loughborough Junction).

Slightly more than that I'm afraid - I failed to measure station centre to station centre - therefore Rochester (old) to Chatham was all of 39 chains or thereabouts! I also noticed yesterday the modern bridge distances (there've been a few new footbridges) as xx miles xxxx yards (no chains note). Very impressive clearance from rail level as well!! Noticeable extra climb when you cross them.

Chatham to the old Rochester station is approx 27 chains, platform end to platform end. To to the new Rochester station it's a further 19.5 chains (so a whopping - comparatively - 46.5 chains now). Nearby, Rochester to Strood is about 55 chains.

Similar at St Mary's Island, Chatham - although not carted through streets there - just the dockyard and barracks!!

That's certainly true of steam locomotive breakers such as Cohen's of Cransley. The site was considered contaminated and had to be treated as such prior to housing being built more recently. However, more to point, Mayer Newman were operating at Snailwell near Newmarket for much of the 80s and 90s and DMUs and hauled stock (I particularly remember the first build Mk 2s going there) went there in their hundreds, if not more, to be fired in the purpose built tunnel building they had there, which would burn out the vehicles and leave a steel hulk for cutting - I think any asbestos residue was hosed off into catchment tanks for controlled disposal. Stock often went there boarded up. There's a great picture on the front of Ashley Butlin's book, The Disposal History of DMUs and EMUs of a class 101 being dealt with in the firing tunnel. Risks like asbestosis have been known about for decades and special disposal requirements have been in place for decades. And as said, quite right too. In the 60s railway coaches were set on fire in the yards in situ (eg at Ince near Wigan). Imagine being one of the poor residents of Wombell where Wombwell Diesels, who broke up literally hundreds if not thousands of buses, adjoined very closely a residential area and were in the habit of lining up a group of vehicles and liberally burning them out en masse to get rid of the soft furnishings and woodwork. Barnsley Council had an on off battle for years over this illegal activity (it probably wasn't in the 60s before the H and S laws resulted in us killing far fewer workers in all industries but notably, construction).

Fabulous - really interesting photo and we have a lot to thank Mike Mensing for, photographing these DMUs at a time when many enthusiasts spurned anything which didn't blow steam out, least of all DMUs, which saw off so much steam motive power. Anyway this is almost certainly one of the 2 car BRCW M50532/M56175 - M50541/M56184 batch - I'd previously thought these had all been at Ryecroft (Walsall), 21F - but coutesy of the info on the excellent Railcar.co.uk, the gaps in underlining in my Combined Volume can now be explained by a couple of the sets being at Newton Heath/ Longsight from new - and several being at Stoke/Crewe South. By probability, this could be M50537/M56180, which was at Stoke (5D) from 4/63 to 10/64, when it went on loan to Bletchley - returning to Stoke a few weeks later....though the dates don't quite match. Im pretty sure more were allocated to 21F and for a longer period than shown in the allocations on the railcar site - I'm guessing maybe the regions didn't record everything - there is no reason I'd have seen them otherwise on services like New St to Walsall via Sutton Park. The WMCL diversions were very interesting - diesel hauled expresses being about 100% class 40 - steam was much more varied but included Brits and (when diverted via Wolverhampton, Stetchford, Coventry) occassional Coronation Pacifics. I recall a couple of hours spent at Stafford station in this early 60s era, when a succession of southbound express passenger trains entered the station hauled by a class 81-85 electric, a class 40 and then 70048 - the Brit with the unfeasibly large nameplates!! Talk about variety!! Maybe that's where I saw some of the 5B/5D DMUs underlined also.

Given the successful main line diesel heritage of the Southern and Bulleid it seems extraordinary this project got to the stage it did - unless there were thoughts that diesel was not the way forward for non-electric services/work at this stage.

Interesting. As this was an LMR service, the 3 car DMU was likely a BRCW (class 104), or maybe a Cravens (class 105), possibly based at Derby. Most of the non-ex WR route LMR West Midlands DMUs were multiples of 2 cars (Ryecroft based) until the Black Country service closures in 1965, and electric local services (March 1967) - except Lichfield to Redditch had 3 car (class 101). The Birmingham to Derby and Leicester local service DMUs tended to be 104 or 105 3 car sets based in the East Midlands.

I don't think it's been proposed before (and not now possible as Rochester station has been closed and a new version opened closer to the centre) - Chatham to Rochester until a couple of years ago were very close. Separated by Fort Pitt tunnel (432 yds), and a short section of track into the ex Rochester station (platforms, loops still there - along with new unit stop signs and extensive bright yellow post and rail fencing - and ever increasing levels of foliage and buddliah shrubs). On the same line, Meopham to Sole Street is also close, especially for a rural area, but won't win prizes on this thread!!

Indeed you're right - however the northbound loop platform effectively was used as a bay by the Stourbridge Town shuttle (as you say, it is now a bay). Although operating as single tracks down the Town branch, the passenger service effectively had to cross tracks beyond the station, as did the freight. As you say, not exactly the layout the OP had in mind although an interesting example of operation. In BR days the class 122 escaped via the loop on to the main line when swapped over or for servicing.

Stourbridge Junction is a good example of a bay platform - the Stourbridge Town shuttle running into the bay platform on the west directly from the north without entering the main platform. There was a facing junction south of the station and two tracks went through the west bay - this is complicated by the fact that north of the station the east track was used for freight workings down through the Town station to the wharf, the west track going to the town platform and terminating beyond. The Town class 122 from the late 50s shuttle operated to and from the bay platform, which also linked to the northbound main via a trailing connection. This station also had an east side bay. There were also two crossovers enabling movements to and from each Town branch track in and north of the bay. Interesting to read the Snow Hill comments above - in reality the south facing bay platforms on the west side were beyond the tunnel - I.e Moor Street station (no through train platforms).

D5223 and D5226, in immaculate blue fyp with bulled up details like white buffers, in multiple, pulled the Royal train in the late 60s (particularly 1968) several times.

Interesting stuff - so the WR passenger operation moved to Oxley and OOC on receipt of the Brush Type 4s from later 1963? Presumably after closure of Stafford Road.

I didn't mention other hydraulic types. These were definitely the exception rather than the rule but:- Hymek - the Lickey bankers from the mid 60s were D7021-7025, with other ones occasionally until replaced by class 37. One of these performed daily on 3M02 parcels which went down through Bescot around 9 pm. Warship - from mid 67 these were used on the New St to Paddington services. They were always class 43. They appeared to travel to Bescot, possibly for refuelling via Soho loop - my most memorable train spotting recollection is of D842 (maroon), D847 (bfyp) and D845 (green), as 0Z00 all under power passing from the Soho loop towards Bescot at Perry Barr North junction in October 67 - every visit to Bescot up to April 68 at least, shows one class 43 recorded. I doubt these ventured further north but you could certainly argue a borrowed loco (if passed for the route!!). They also appeared at Shrewsbury.

As has been said, the Stafford to Wellington line closed whilst still steam operated, possibly from the Stafford end. There is a video on You Tube of a complete trip towards the end, and showing the various loco types encountered en route. Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton was affected by a couple of key events, as well as the usual modernisation and Beeching issues - these are transfer of the WR route to the LMR in 1963 and full introduction of the WCML electrification through Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Bescot and to Walsall in March 1967. For actual locos, Paddington to Birkenhead was dieselised with Western class diesels after the Kings allocated to Stafford Road were withdrawn - 1962. Any OOC allocated ones built up to late 63/early 64 were used - my limited personal experience included the low numbered ones (eg D1011). These were replaced by either brand new or almost new Brush Type 4s from 1964 - D1682-D1690, D1695/6 and various in the low D17xx (except 1702-6 - later ER class 48s), allocated to Oxley but OOC and other ones appeared - say up to D1757 - NB the several months old D1734 (Bristol Bath Road) came to grief adjacent to Coton Hill yard when it struck wagons derailed in the yard which fouled the main line - one of the D168x which was nearby in the yard was damaged also. D1734 was the shortest lived class 47 of all. Note there was still a lot of steam on freight on the ex WR Midland area lines in the mid 60s. Stanlow to Albion block oil trains were also run by Birkenhead 9Fs until the mid 60s when replaced by class 47s. DMUs from the usual Tyseley pool of class 116 (50050-79/85; and a handful of the ex Cardiff and Bristol ones) would have appeared along with class 122 (55002-10; also 12 and 13 at times, though odd ones of these seem to have been swapped to and fro with Laira) - after closure of Much Wenlock and the Severn Valley north of Bewdley, other than as additional power cars or replacement power cars in class 116, there doesn't appear to be any reason for these to have appeared. Class 128, 55992-55996 may also have appeared. All of these went from W to M prefix in 1963. Some 116 and 122 were still in that almost malachite green colour. Class 40 were prevalent in the Birmingham area (of the WMCL allocated batches - 210-236, 255, 267-9, 287-344, 369-384 or thereabouts - so all three headcode or not variants). From March 1967, with full electrification of the WMCL routes through services from Wolverhampton Low Level to Birkenhead ceased - passenger trains generally terminated terminated at Wolv High Level - a batch of 3 car class 119 and 101 (the latter being the last 5 sets from the Lichfield - Birmingham line batch 50316-50320) were allocated to Chester for these services - they were all repainted (the 8 X 119s in blue/grey - 51085-87; 51099-51104 etc). Any Stoke or Birmingham Division class 24/25 may have appeared on freight/parcels but probably more likely after early 1967. Livery celebrities like D5021 and D5028, and some of the final batch eg D7670 and D7677 were regular performers on freight from Bescot. D5000-49, and 73-93 were Stoke Division from 1967/8. 5000 was stored after withdrawal at Shrewsbury. The local 47s and 24/25s are likely to have run any freight in the remaining bits of the Stafford line. Until the later 60s, locos tended to remain in their allocated areas - however as the era wore on so the appearance of, for instance, ER class 47 became more regular, say at Bescot. Hope this helps you.

Thanks for the correction caradoc - I got carried away a bit there - in spite of the detail points Dapol are to be congratulated on this model which really is the archetypal WR branch line train of the early modernisation era. I find their history as fascinating as the excellent class 116 thread - possibly because both classes featured in my youthful spotting days and were early subjects of inter-regional transfers owing to closures and cut backs - presumably the WR had run out of steam locos by late 1966 to show stock savings!! I also recall my older, often steam loving peers asking, apparently horrified why I was collecting 'bug unit' carriage numbers....a few were a decidedly faded green (originally almost malachite) at Snow Hill in the early 60s, which is possibly where the derisory name came from!

In the interests of accuracy, Tyseley's M55008 was also in blue syp - I discovered some photos of it buried in railcar.co.uk - there are also photos there of W55000 and also SC55015 in blue syp, the latter after conversion to class 131 parcels use. A couple of those pictures show very clearly the numbers used on those units are remarkably small (as were DMU coach numbers generally in that livery) - making the Dapol upside down W issue on 55003, blue syp, only part of the problem as the numbering looks to be more like the later style.

Thanks for the correction - I've corrected the original post as well to avoid confusion. You presumed right regarding Tri-ang and my mixing up of numbers - i have both versions but as with most of my 60s stock, they received coats of Humbrol Rail Blue, full yellow ends and renumbered to something I was more familiar with and received the BR transfers - in about 1968... a Hornby (yes the proper one - E3002) class 81 received the same treatment and became E3016 with raised numbers!! The other E3002 remained electric blue but was defaced by the addition of a syp - such is the desire of youth for all things new!!

Im not sure whether D7033 was painted at Derby or repainted elsewhere and taken there for demonstration/publicity purposes.

D7033 was the first Hymek and I'm pretty sure the first application of blue with overall yellow front (and yellow around the windows). Done in 1966 and demonstrated at Derby Works as the new 'standard' approach to this, to improve visibility of approaching trains for lineside workers. A news item appeared in the Railway Magazine at the time. As stated, the Hymeks with blue and syp sometimes had white trim around the windows, and possibly more rarely, were all over blue. As well as the Thornaby experimental front panels on class 25/0s, there was the other visibility experiment involving a selection of stock in the very early 60s (including D5578 in blue and D5579 in a version of golden ochre). Once again there is a published article on this (but I can't remember where.....)! I believe it was from this that the small yellow warning panel application was selected. Interesting that the WR used white cab rooves on DMUs until the blue era (with full yellow panel). Was it also a warning device or to keep the staff cooler? If a warning device they got filthy very quickly - especially from exhaust pipe on class 121, 122 and 128.

I think this almost certainly arrived on ScR in early rail blue with sywp, white cab rooves and red buffer beams. I saw it, I think in the summer of 1967, at Prestwick station in this condition. The give away was it was numbered W55000 (as well as only Swindon painting the cab rooves white in that early livery). I was staying with relatives at the time and went to Prestwick station with my cousin, who assured me we'd see a railbus or two - W55000 turned up instead - as a Brummie I'd been accustomed to the Tyseley class 122s so I'd never seen this one before - but not quite on the same level of exotica as a diesel railbus!! The only other class 122s I've ever heard of in this early rail blue livery were M55003 (Tyseley - seen on Leamington to Stratford) and W55015 (Laira - reported in Railway Magazine on the Looe branch) - unless anyone else knows better!