TomScrut

That's good news, the ones they are making now aren't current (or soon not going to be) so I aren't interested in them. But a GBRF 59003 is spot on, as I want a 59/0 ideally too as I have a load of 66s and at so want the older lights

Ok so it does look as if the idea they have the license already is actually just a rumour!

I think the main issue with this discussion is some people are saying Dapol have said they haven't got it, some are saying they have read they have! What year was it you heard this? I.e. if it was 2019 then it's likely to be up to date info!

Whilst the Chiltern ones were only in the first two batches, there were two locos per batch. But I would hazard a guess the Chiltern ones aren't particularly desirable (compared to say TPE): 1. Subjectively the livery isn't fantastic 2. No readily available rolling stock to go with it 3. The route isn't exactly great in terms of regional interest as far as giving excuses to put one on a layout But bringing things back onto the 88, it doesn't suffer the issues above in my opinion: 1. Nice livery 2. Loads of stuff to run them with. A quick look on Flickr shows IKAs, FNAs and MRAs to start with. 3. Run up and down the country on two main lines and so will have a lot of regional interest I do appreciate though that the Chiltern 68s are far less of an undertaking given the DRS ones would be the main sellers compared to tooling up the 88

I was mainly responding to the statement a few posts back that supposedly Dapol do have the license for both 68 and 88. If that was the case then surely having already invested in the license there would at least be some thought put into the 68 design to facilitate the 88, it doesn't mean they have committed to tooling, or even compromised the 68 but I know whenever I design anything involving tooling for my work I consider flexibility and adaptability of it doesn't compromise the function or cost of the main objective. Say if it's 100k tooling there is still a significant amount (as in not to be sniffed at) of that in ancillaries I would expect. Windscreens, lights, windscreen wipers, buffers etc. and that's even before we consider that the body tool could be modular to accommodate the difference in grilles and doors. The grilles may even be separate parts (I don't have a 68 at the moment, will in a few days) and therefore the holes could be a trimming difference or mould insert, although injection moulding isn't my area of expertise so I aren't sure. And the development of the CAD will probably be in the 10s of thousands in people's time and getting information from the prototype (3D scans etc.), so again if half of that is done it's a good start. I aren't saying it's going to be easy or cheap for them to do, I am saying they have (or could have) got a head start on it if it has been thought about from the start. If the cost is 75% of a brand new model it still makes a big difference to the viability I would expect. It's also probably worth noting despite there being 68s hanging around in shops, these are from the third batch as far as I am aware and all three batches have been all of very similar liveries other than the last batch having TPE in the mix. This doesn't seem to be the normal model with new tooling where they do so much so quickly?

Yes but given the ancillary parts and internals probably account for 50% of the work and cost (as a guess) that's a lot better than being completely different! And being an everyday user of 3D CAD myself I know that a lot of time could be saved on that side of things with them being similar in shape.

You'd think they would designed the 68 tooling with the 88 in mind in that case. Not necessarily that you could make the 88 using the same tooling but how the thing goes together could be optimised to allow different sub tools to be made to reduce the investment for doing an 88.

The 195/331 is something (if I were a manufacturer) I'd be jumping on right away, especially given I am assuming there will be some commonality with the 397 so it could be 3 for the price of 2 tooling and CAD wise? If Northern are replacing all their pacers with them they'll be everywhere up North. And then as you say there are the other orders which I assume will look like the 195/331. I am biased too as I would like a 195!

Yes I have space for 5-6 cars, so the 68 with mk5s is about spot on for me. Likewise with the 5 car 800 (even though the LNER one is actually numbered as a 9 car IIRC so isn't really authentic). At least the other thing being that there are now legitimate rakes of HSTs with 4 coaches! I think there will be enough people but would be interesting to know how many they need and how many have ordered so far

Yes it's probably less niche than the test train, although it's more of a collector's item I suppose

It's great area wise just a bit niche time wise I think!

A grey one would be interesting since they are still getting about as far as I am aware. They also lent them to HT to do their training I think so probably have coverage of the whole ECML and also over to Manchester and Liverpool from York.

I bloomin' well hope so I'd be all over that! One of my Hornby wish lists for 2020, along with eventually getting the LNER 800! An 802 has bigger fuel tanks I think, but other than that not much at all different from the outside I don't think? I think given there are only 2 operators of 800s but 3 operate 802s (GWR, TPE and HT) I'd expect the tooling changes to be worthwhile? I'd also probably be keen on a Hull Trains one, I like that livery too.

Also you put the 93 pic in while I was replying. The bogies look different, I guess the 110mph top speed is maybe something to do with that (IIRC 68 and 88 are only 100?) The body, if the pic is accurate (probably just an early concept based on an 88), looks like a lot of commonality with the 88, if the roof was a separate part (maybe a bit like the Bachmann 90) then assuming the 93 was to be done by Dapol an 88 could be (give or take) a 93 body and chassis with 68 bogies and it's own roof. Bear in mind that a lot of the tooling will be the same to a 68 regardless (small component parts which are common to both) and that even if the body is a new tool if the CAD work is only a few weeks to modify what already exists for a 68 (vs several months from scratch) it knocks a lot of cost out there too. Although if they did a 93 I'd probably be more likely to get that than an 88, other than I prefer the DRS 88 livery to the ROG one.

Yeah you could argue that there is enough. But there are plenty of people with 034 who want a proper TPE one. IF I go for 034 I would still be wanting 032! So hopefully demand is there. I aren't sure why they went and did the last batch in the plain blue TBH in 026, wasn't the deal with TPE agreed before the locos were even delivered (not ordered)?

I'd be interested to know the reasoning behind the doors being different!

Ah I didn't know that! I was under the impression that during the development of the 68 and 88 it was deemed not necessary for traction? So A) was that actually not correct or B) does the loading get too high on Bo-Bo or C) am I barking up the wrong tree?

Yes Dapol wanting to know about the 68 kinda looks like they are being cautious to be honest. I think a lot of it will end up being down to whether the 93 could be done at the same time (I doubt this but you never know). If DRS really own the "design" then the 93 probably will have a different appearance. You'd also expect it may be a bit longer given it will have a larger power plant in there but still all the electric gubbins off an 88? I can't see there being more 93s ordered when there are 90s without work and the 93 will be a lot better without overheads than the 88

Cheers for the welcome, I have been using the site for a while for information but thought I would join in. Yes that's it, if they need several thousand then it's looking unlikely, but say 1000 of each then it's probably a go given Accurascale will need to do a decent amount of mk5s to make it worthwhile. I have gone for 032, I think Destroyer is a slightly cooler name than Achilles (just). I presume the tooling differences are because they are from different batches and also that 23 will be a Vossloh whereas 32 will be Stadler? But either way with 34 already being tooled then physical differences will be covered? Surely it will just be the number, name and manufacturer plate? It bugs me where the plate is stays DRS blue by the way!

Does anyone have any ideas as to why the LNER 800 has gone back to July? It seemed to be announced at very last minute (i.e. when they should already have been on the boat!)

Yes there is that I suppose. I wonder what percentage of the market is DCC? And just because somebody wants DCC it doesn't mean they want the feature, the one on the 90 wasn't a selling point to me but now I have it I like it! If I could have used a normal decoder in it I probably wouldn't have ever used it. Bachmann should really have put a switch in to cut the servo off to protect it. On the other hand I am in a position where as I only have a 8ft X 6ft layout with minimal off layout storage my current fleet of 10 locos doesn't have that much potential for expansion, I'd probably rather have better models than cheaper ones. A bit like the argument of 2 Hornby 66s vs 1 Hattons one!

Hi Fran, are these still on schedule for Jan? Cheers!

Typically I had just bought my first two Bachmann 37s when the Accurascale announcement was made. At least they are the fairly sought after 025 and 099 as they are today. I will be keeping them for a while yet unless Accurascale go to do normal split headcodes with those specific ones (as far as I am aware 025 is the only big logo split headcode on the main network at the moment, and 099 is Colas' only split headcode?) I prefer the split headcode to the central one! I have got a NR and EP 37 on pre order from Accurascale though My policy on the Bachmann 37 (vs Accurascale) is the same with the 66 (vs Hattons), I aren't getting rid but just not buying any more of them!

Looks like they aren't going to be announcing it this year! Yeah I think from now on its going to be a "must have" on electric locos carrying a premium price tag. I have just got a Bachmann 90 and I think it's great! I'd probably be keen on an 88, I prefer the livery to the one on 68s and they perform similar duties.

I suppose the other thing is how many do they need to make to make it worthwhile? One would presume the tooling will be paid for by now (other than the new printing, if necessary), so would it be 500, 1000 or what? I know there are limited editions of specific liveries of a few hundred of other locos by other manufacturers but I presume they will come in a lot larger order of other variants to cover MOQs for mouldings etc? I'd be gutted if they don't make them given I missed out on Brutus and won't pay the silly prices they go for nowadays, I was going to buy a 68034 to run with my mk5s (given 033 and 034 are capable of running mk5s IRL) and I am still on the fence about it. If I had some suitable stock for it I'd already have one, the only Intermodal wagons I have are FL branded FLAs and I do have a FNA flask wagon but I'd then need another 68 to go with it! If I was going for a normal DRS loco with the limitations of what I can run it with I'd probably rather have an 88 as I prefer the livery to the DRS 68s.