DK123GWR

I know this will sound ridiculous, but as one of the youngest people to remember Woolies (my sister is two years younger and doesn't have a clue) this caption makes me feel very old.

So would you agree that with Siphons/BGs/CCTs/GUVs (depending upon era, availability, and required capacity) the same fundamental system could work? To clarify, it is now: 1) Product manufactured or grown abroad 2) Product transported to Clarke Island 3) Freight (mostly containerised) transported to distribution centre by train 4) Containers opened at distribution centre; goods placed in warehouse or onto distribution trains as required 5) Distribution trains (formed of BGs or similar) run from distribution centre to stations/yards 6) Goods unloaded at station/yard* and distributed locally by road *Could this include adding/removing wagons at yards serving large population centres? This could help to reduce the time the train is stationary if the unloading would take a long time. On the other hand, extended stops could be used to allow passenger trains to overtake.

...where the mini-containers are removed from the shipping containers, sorted into new ones, and sent on to their destination according to local demand. While this system would not be as efficient as lifting a container off of the boat and onto the train, that system has already been proven unviable (unless you like rotten bannanas). Would separate types of wagon for each good be any better? It would still require transhipment of goods from the container used on the ship to the wagon, but a standardised system could not be used. This is the best compromise I can find between the efficient transhipment of containerised freight and the need to deliver a variety of goods to each destination. I have discarded leaving most of the containers empty as that would be frightfully expensive and inefficient.

The trouble with this is that the UK in the 1940s must be used as a geographical starting point. You would also have to bear in mind that the enourmous changes in the history of the railway would have impacted the development of towns. As well as this, the system that you suggest sounds as though it is being stretched unsustainably. Whereas Clarke Island would keep on older locos because there is no need to replace them, the alternative British history would see them kept because there was no way to replace them. In these circumstances, it is hard to imagine that road transport would not take over from rail even more quickly than in real life (unless there was no investment in roads either - which would really leave a crippled economy). Any imports would require at least two modal shifts (road/rail -> ship in the country of origin and ship -> rail on Clarke Island). As for the entire conainer of bannanas, couldn't a system of standardised containers designed to fit into a container allow a mixture of goods requiring similar storage conditions (eg. refrigerated, frozen) to be delivered in a single shipping container?

I've been away for a few days so haven't been checking RMweb. I'll read through this in more detail when I get chance but one thing I have noticed is that the 600 miles quoted should be 600 km (my error).

The wealth argument makes sense. I'm also looking at my backstory now and wondering how the island ended up poor, given that the railway was supposed to facilitate the spread of the industrial revolution to Clarke Island. The physical size also makes less sense now that I have looked at Ireland (50% larger) and realised that even the Dublin-Belfast service is not all double track. I think I'll keep the fundamental backstory but increase the size to around 600*200 miles (England + Scotland south of Edinburgh/Glasgow). This would make it large enough to order extra units of new designs to work alongside the second-hand locos (there's not much point in spending more than required if you are being offered something with most of its working life remaining at a low cost). The political structure needs to be one of loose affiliation in order to explain the preference for rail - perhaps the local government was granted full political control in exchange for allowing the UK to maintain a large military presence (another form of traffic for the railway of course). Coaches would still be put into service as they were withdrawn from BR (perhaps with retrofitted aircon and new bogies). A new fleet of driving coaches would most likely be produced, with cables added to the coaches which operate on these routes (most likely the newest available at the time). Most goods could probably be carried in containers (refrigerated if required) and hopper/tank wagons could easily be sourced from BR or built new. Are there any other wagons that would definitely be required in a rail-based transport system? Freight operations in the modern era will require creative thinking. Steam era operating practises would not be sufficent on most lines (although you could get away with it on small branches).

First of all, a warning that the following was written while I was tired. Consquently, the historical accuracy/economic thinking/grammar may be difficult to understand. My plan had been that during the BR era they were able to buy redundant stock at the cost of the sale (covering shipping, etc.). Around 1970, this meant that they were able to completely refresh the fleet as the diesel hydraulics and many new steam locomotives (including BR standard classes) became available. However, the supply since then has been more patchy. Class 56s have allowed 9Fs to retire or be redeployed on passenger services in place of less reliable hydraulics. Some class 50s were available to take on the express services, but as preservation groups are considered a higher priority nearly half of the BR fleet were not. Small groups of successful diesel electric locos such as the 37 and 47 have taken on freight work previously performed by various BR standards. This has allowed the standards to be redeployed as cover for the even older locomotives which often work branch line passenger services (there is no intention to replace steam on these lines as many serve tourist destinations). In short, if stock cannot be sold or preserved, it will be offered to the Clarke Island Railway. If they do not want it, it will join the queue to be scrapped. While not state of the art, the railway is still the main form of goods transport as there has been little investment in roads. If any models are run on a UK layout it would be as repatriated preserved examples. In other words, modifications such as added AC would remain. Regarding coaches, the mainline will likely be using Mk1s and early Mk2s by now, but older designs (perhaps including a three compartment four wheel coach built by the GWR specifically for the CIR) may persist on branch lines. This is particularly true of those that are now semi-heritage lines. 'What would a Class 47 look like in pink with yellow lining?' was one of the thoughts which drew me toward this idea. Please note that this is not a final decision on livery. Originally food, coal, and stone were transported (the last two having been transhipped from narrow gauge lines). This would have expanded to include most types of goods. Due to a relatively poor road network (a road like the A350 between Shaftesbury and Blandford Forum is a 'good' road and anything better is exceptional) the railway continues to be the primary form of passenger and freigh transport. Environmental concerns mean this is unlikely to change. Wagons will likely be a random mixture of eras as some industries (eg. coal and stone) may have moved on to modern wagons and operating practises (using early hopper designs) while others would be forced to use and adapt older vehicles as the equivalent traffic has since died out in Britain. I think that operating practises could be a combination of older and newer ones, where some more recent ideas to save time have been adopted into a railway which is still operationally in the steam era.

HS2 could be complete by the time we have made sufficient progress on this front.

At the moment I have a trainset which can only really be developed into a slightly better train set. I have realised though that upgrading it could free up track for a 'proper' layout - small enough to fit on a windowsill - which will allow me to try out some new techniques. That's when I had the idea of Clarke Island. To summarise the first page of my history of the island (2200 words and growing): Clarke Island is approximately 200 miles long and sits in the Atlantic Ocean to the west of Morrocco. After a businessman (Eustace Bigginhope) built his own narrow gauge railway to transport stone and coal from the mountains around 1850, a rival businessman and the island's governor (George Clarke) realised the potential of the railway to transport their goods (including agricultural products from the east). As a result, soon after his friend Gooch became chair of the GWR, Clarke approached him with plans for a standard gauge line across the island. The island was occaisionally used by the GWR to test experimental designs, and later rolling stock was supplied by BR when it was retired with a long service life remaining, or when their intended service life had long expired (and were available at any price above scrap value). The layout that I want to build is of a small station (name not yet decided) on the north coast, where a branch line of the (green) standard gauge network ends and is met by another line which goes to meet the easternmost line of the narrow gauge network (yellow). It will likely be set in the steam era to allow smaller locos, coaches, and wagons to be used. There is a limited passenger service on the line towards the narrow gauge transhipment centre, and on the line towards the capital city Avonmouth (the urban area which dominates the peninsula in the centre of the west coast). Most goods are supplied from the mainline, but coal occaisionally comes down from the narrow gauge transhipment centre. The Island.svg In the future, it may be joined by more layouts (Kawmib Junction in the south is tempting, as are all of the narrow gauge transhipment centres, and maybe the bridge to Westskerrey Island). Although I am not expecting any imminent engineering works (as mentioned the track is currently in use elsewhere) I have decided to start the thread now to get an idea of what rolling stock people think could have appeared on Clarke Island. During steam years it would almost universally be GWR stock, but perhaps with a higher ratio of experimental locomotives or older classes. After nationalisation, perhaps some aging locomotives from other regions could be brought in, as well as a few Austerity locomotives. Later on, locomotives left redundant by changing demand in the UK (or changes in BR policy) could appear. This might include individual Class 08s or, on the main line, diesel hydraulics and newer steam locos such as 9Fs. In the modern era you could have the residual 9Fs and hydraulics, as well as diesel electrics with life extensions. The trick is to make sure that the rolling stock is allowed to become diverse enough for interest, yet remain realistic. This is where I would like some advice, as it is easy to find information on what did run, but harder to find what could have survived longer given a strange set of circumstances (as this is usually irrelevant). Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated, whatever the point in history (the first layout is likely to be steam era, but others may not).

I see that it would be far easier to fit the pickups to the coach than the motor bogie, but at the moment I don't have space to store them together (this may change in a few months if I can get planning permission from my father). Incidentally, the Class 91 was going to be one of the ones I did next if the HST went well, but as the HST is the only locomotive in my primary fleet which could be done without Ultrascale wheels (or waiting for Peter's Spares to bring out their product) I decided to prioritise this.

The way the images have been joined together in the Denaby photo makes it look like a prototype for the tracklaying on my first train set.

It's meant to be orange, but the colours are often ambiguous. You also have to double check white and grey at times. Do you have any ideas about where to mount the board here? The gears and motor cover most of the obvious places.

Tape and extra wires present due to DCC conversion.

I could remove the bogie easily and had already tried using a screwdriver to separate the two pieces. Where would you recommend using as a leverage point? Where would you glue the copper board? On the motor bogie above is doesn't seem to be an option (as the motor would be in the way) but if you attatched from below you would surely have trouble feeding the wires to it, as well as running the risk of fouling rails on points.

I am looking at ways to improve the electrical continuity of some of my models, which have a habit of stalling. One of these is a Hornby HST (service sheet here) which I have noticed has gears on the wheels of the unpowered bogies and dummy power cars. How do you take apart the bogies in order to swap these and fit extra pickups? One complication that I am expecting is that the geared wheel is currently insulated from the axle while the other wheel is electrically connected (as pickup would be from the non-tyred side). To fit pickup on all wheels, I would imagine that this must be reversed as it would be difficult to fit pickups to the geared side, especially on the power bogie. Is it possible to do this, and if so how? Thanks in advance for any help.

For some reason I'd just assumed that they were painted by hand.

How did they manage that?

I realise that, it just strikes me as odd that when people went to buy more coaches they would (in theory) have a 1/3 chance of buying Mk3s, whereas the actual number who did seems to be far fewer, based upon what I recall seeing.

If people buy the stuff and he doesn't have any other jobs then technically...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-Hornby-6-CAR-HS125-INTER-CITY-SET-IN-BLUE-LIVERY-VERY-NICE-LOOKSEE/203052938994?hash=item2f46e5f6f2:g:zxUAAOSwUfhfFHFv An example of very common (and perfectly understandable) madness: HST power cars with Mk2s (HSTs with one Mk3 and a Mk1 buffet are also everywhere). Is there any particular reason for the phenomenom of most HST sets containing no more than 1 Mk3? Were older coaches cheaper when these were first produced?

Good advice in general, as a lot of modern stock will not run on R1. If you want to use modern stock you should definitely stick to a minimum of R2, and even if you aren't right now then it will ensure you don't run into problems later on. However, if you are certain that you will only run old stock (perhaps because you intend to use this for 'dipping your toe in') then you will likely be able to get away with R1 or even less as old locos are far more tolerant of tight curves. My Lima class 47s from the 1980s managed R1 curves when that was all I had - and my Hornby Hall of a similar vinatge would have done if my tracklaying had been better (getting the rails into the fishplates would have helped), and I have seen videos of a Triang (I believe) 9F running on even tighter corners. Of course, it will still look much better if you use the largest radius possible as all set track curves are tighter than you would be likely to find on a real railway.

According to Wikipedia: "British Rail Engineering Limited's Derby Litchurch Lane Works built 52 Mark 3 DVTs to operate with Mark 2 and Mark 3 sets in push-pull mode with 86, 87 and 90 class locomotives on InterCity West Coast Main Line services from London Euston to Wolverhampton, Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow allowing the retirement of the 81, 82, 83, 84 and 85 class locomotives" Did introducing DVTs allow this, and if so how? If it were the case that two locos were needed on each train (one at each end) before DVTs then I would understand, as this would effectively double the number of locos available. However, further reading suggests that it was standard practise for a loco to run around its train at each end of the line. Please forgive me if I'm being dim and failing to read the article properly - its getting a little late here so I'm not at my sharpest. Thanks in advance for any information that you may be able to share.

I assume that 'bubonic plague' refers to the Great Plague of 1665, while the Black Death was an earlier outbreak of the same disease in 1348.

Fancy a bargain? Good morning, Trojmiasto. We are writing to let you know that we have an amazing price on all good manners. From now on, all good manners cost nothing! Thank you very much for reading this message. Please enjoy this opportunity and enjoy the rest of your day! In all seriousness, I don't know whether this is a bargain as it is outside of my interests (or whether it's been covered before). It's an older model, but anything DCC fitted for under £100 strikes me as worth mentioning. http://herefordmodels.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=340_350_354_351&products_id=12238 http://herefordmodels.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=340_350_354_351&products_id=12247 The N15 is available pre-owned from Hattons, but for slightly more.

It appears a viable alternative to people who know very little about rail travel, and appeals to older people who want to 'reverse Beaching' and go back to 'the good old days'.