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15 hours ago, McC said:

If it helps its at least one completely new unannounced range. 

HST/Mk3 range please!! 
 

I’ve just been working out the requirements for my planned layout and need around 14 sets to run the working timetable! So around 24 power cars and 105 coaches. 
 

I certainly won’t be giving Hornby that business, so if you guys don’t produce one I might have to model somewhere else! 

12 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

The thing is we don't have sight of what they are doing, but like Hornby there isn't that much in their existing tooling suite that I want that I don't have (all I wanted from Hornby this year was 802, 803 and Drax and they all turned up). Orange 90 and a Northern 158 basically unless they bring an XC 221 from the dead!

True. I’ve got a couple of the new 47s on order to see what they’re like but can’t see me buying loads, although if Bachmann drip feed them like they normally do it’ll take decades to assemble a fleet of them! 

I certainly prefer the Accurascale/Cavalex/SLW way of releasing a large number of variations in one go so you can get a fleet up together quickly!

I actually prefer the Heljan releases on the 47 and I would have probably looked to replace my Bachmann fleet with these had they not of buggered the shape!  

My preorder amount for Cavalex is all for 56s and allows me to more than replace my Hornby fleet of 5 in one go! Although I think I may have underestimated the amount I quoted above!! 

Last Friday it looked like this…

Hornby £3000

Accurascale £2500

Cavalex £1600

Bachmann £600

SLW £325

Dapol £0

Heljan £0

There wasn’t much for me in this year’s announcements anyway (for late 80s/early 90s) so probably just the 60s to be honest but with Hornby’s shenanigans and just generally not impressed with the quality/value I cancelled all my existing Hornby pre-orders so it now looks like this…

Accurascale £2500

Cavalex £1600

Bachmann £600

SLW £325

Dapol £0

Heljan £0

Hornby £0

Must be something to do with starting with ‘H’ as I won’t be buying Heljan either! They’d probably be in the lead at the moment, with about £3000, if they could actually be bothered to make the effort and get the shape of their 45s and 47s correct! 
 

So that’s plenty saved to now send Accurascales way! Interestingly a couple of years ago I’d say 90% of my spend probably went to Bachmann! 

3 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

I don't think that Hornby prices have reached the point that people will not be able to afford them.

You’re probably right, but for me, it’s not all about affordability - I’m quite fortunate to be able to buy what I like generally - it is as much about value for money.

Just because I can afford something doesn’t mean I’m going to buy it regardless. I generally view Hornby as expensive for an, at best, ok product and when the likes of Accurascale and others offer an outstanding product for less that leaves me feeling ripped off.

I realise different businesses will have different business models and overheads, but as a consumer that is not my problem really - Hornby for me equals low quality, high price. 

For example I had no qualms about ordering a SLW 25 at £320 odd pound as the model looks to be worth it and they’ve put the effort in to get them as good as they possibly can be! I won’t however pay £360 odd pound for a Hornby HST with a massive mould line down the front, saggy windscreen and a lottery on whether it’ll be in the correct colour with logos in the right place! 

27 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Given SK's waffle under Andy 'Paxman' York's ruthless and relentless (!!) interrogation, and muttering something about tooling, I think they have paused it to see if Studio Canal release the legal hounds onto them before they spend any money developing it. Got the impression Hornby were not expecting so much push back and are not sure what to do next.

 

This week's to do list is going well:

 

Royally pee'd off a rapidly expanding competitor - check

Taken the mickey out of a global media company with huge legal firepower that's not afraid to use it - check

Upset a noticeable/vocal part of the market - check

Confuse retail partners over launch allocations - check

 

and its not even Friday....

 

All this tier nonsense is perfectly timed to allow Rapido to expand their dealership network off the back of disgruntled retailers. To quote Homer Simpson....."Doh!!"

Is this a new video that I’ve missed somewhere?! I’ve seen the one from last year where SK is lost for words when announcing Lion but nothing from this week? Now that would be interesting! 

13 hours ago, acourtrail said:

While I don't model OO scale (so, by default there isn't going to be anything I fancy in the Hornby range), I still take an interest in what Hornby are doing each year, because it gives me a good idea what might be done in the future by Dapol/ Farish etc. in N scale (a lot of N scalers will see something come out in OO scale, and then clamour for it in N).

Regarding the prices, I am not surprised at them, in fact I expected them to be even higher than they are. The real problem with people being able to afford the models, is that the average incomes are not going up (and incomes are even going down, in many peoples cases).

One big contributory factor of these price rises, is that the manufacturers seem to be in an “arms race” to outdo each other by stuffing each new model full of gimmicks of questionable necessity (which, needless to say makes the models harder (and more expensive) to make, and much easier to damage due to the increasingly delicate extra parts). Obviously things that most people want and also improve the operation of the models (like DCC sockets) are musts, but how many of you hand on heart REALLY want the “gimmicky” features like opening cab doors, rotating fans etc.? Yes there is uproar when a new model doesn't have those kinds of features, but that is because most models have them nowadays, and therefore people have been weaned into expecting them. If none of the manufacturers had bothered putting those “gimmicky” features in any of their models in the first place, would you have been less likely to buy the models?

Regarding the specific models Hornby are doing, I suspect they have stopped catering for the average modeller, and are now targeting the collectors. While I am sure that there will be a few people (and more likely clubs) who will buy those lovely new Coronation coaches for their layouts (assuming they model the East Coast Main Line in the late – 1930s, and they have space for the whole train), most of those coaches will get bought by collectors who will just display them in a glass cabinet.

As to the quality control issues, I wouldn't be surprised if the problems are worse than people realise. Take the “Hush Hush” for example. From what I gather, a lot of people (at least the few people who managed to get one!) have had all sorts of trouble with them, but I suspect that there will be even more people out there who have a bad “Hush Hush”, and will never know (because they will have put their “Hush Hush” in their “self awarded trophy cabinet” and will never dare run it “because then it won't be mint boxed”).

Me personally: think opening doors are waste of time and money as I have never had any inclination to do anything with them other than the first prod of one on the 50 whenever that was first released however many years ago! 
 

In fact I’ve had to send multiple models back because they’re either badly fitted or have fallen off, so must be more hassle than they’re worth for the manufacturer too you’d think?! 
 

At least the newer manufacturers have chosen to ignore this gimmick on their models! 
 

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Oh thats cool, I never thought VTEC just hired EMT power cars, I know I saw full EMT sets on hire on the ECML before… that changes things. How often was it just the power cars ? I know full sets happened fairly frequently.

I think there was a full EMT set leased directly to VTEC then LNER, when the native ECML sets received the VTEC refresh the now ex EMT coach set received the same new seat covers and carpets (albeit retaining original seats/interior fittings etc) and was vinyled into VTEC livery but the two transferred power cars (43061/075) that worked with it retained full EMT livery until the end.
 

edit: I think this set had mention of Hull on the exterior of the buffet as this was its general allocated turn - something like Hull - KX - Leeds - KX - Hull. Although it did go further afield on occasions at weekends I recall. I assume this fixed turn was because maintenance for this was kept at NL rather than EC. 
 

further edit!: although I think they generally stayed together on ‘their’ set there are pics of these two power cars on Flickr on normal sets with other power cars too. 

also I think the ex EMT set remained 8 coaches rather than the 9 of the normal sets so an excuse for a shorter VTEC/LNER liveried set! 
 

4 hours ago, Train Fault said:

Great news re the new tooled HST, for such an icon of the modern image its a  much needed and hopefully a fitting tribute to the prototype. From the images and what’s been said, seems a number of issues has been sorted, right down the the wheel sets and much needed coupling upgrades... here’s hoping  two of my bigger bugbears are also addressed with the iconic front end... ugly moulding lines and the droopy roofline.

 

That’s awful! I have to confess that I’ve never really inspected mine that closely as not got around to building the layout yet!

Another reason to get rid of them and hope that Accurascale come to the rescue with a decent one! 

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

 

I think we can see how you are unaware of one of the best films ever made now. (Not THE best, that's Herbie Rides Again, obviously)

Oh, I do remember watching Herbie! And probably some of the better Carry Ons! Was there some Doctor ones that were similar with, I think, Leslie Philips?!

Sorry gone a bit off topic here!

Were there any trains in Carry On?! Maybe they could rework a TPO model so that instead of depositing the mail bags a OO gauge Barbara Windsors bra is left hanging on the hook as the train speeds by?! And back on topic! 

12 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

 

Signs of a misspent youth not watching the endless recycling of old comedies and films on the tv?  I saw the Titfield Thunderbolt many times along with many other Ealing classics as a kid in the 80’s. A trip to the cinema was a rare treat but there was always something on BBC2.  

Lol. Never been a big tv or film watcher now I think about it! Star Wars was probably about it when I was growing up!  Wanted to be a stormtrooper when I grew up, with hindsight probably not the most lengthy career choice! Haha. 

There are so many angles to this now I’m not sure whether to post as one or separately!!
 

My big gripes with Hornby/SK and have led to my decision to no longer purchase anything from them/boycott, call it what you will are:

The tiers: it does appear that this is a way of eventually driving everyone to the website (and if I’m honest as a business they are quite entitled to do) but they seem to be masking it as supporting retailers which I’m not sure it does and they don’t seem to be being honest in its intended goal.

As the premises seem to have some relation to which tier a retailer falls into it seems odd that they are receiving such small allocations and a lot are selling out before the model is produced. Surely the point of a shop is to encourage people in to browse products and purchase, hopefully, more than intended?! If going forward nothing ever makes the shelves then surely they may as well just run a warehouse?! (Now I realise there is a fine balance between having too much stock that you can’t shift and having to discount vs just enough to create some desire for browsing customers).

The attitude: this very unsavoury and unpalatable attitude of thinking that they have a right to everything and nobody should dare encroach on their territory and now ‘Titgate’

I only watched one of those recent tv programmes (APT) and found it just unbearably cringeworthy. I would go as far to say that SK is deluded - the detail detail detail comment especially. Ok the APT looks quite smart, but it feels so cheap and basic - and weighs nothing (I’m sure if someone broke wind four streets away it would be in danger of being blown from the tracks) and the much discussed dustbins hanging from the ceiling that I don’t recall on the prototype! This is not detail detail detail, it’s cheap cheap cheap (but it’s not is it!) 

The models: these are just not up to the standard of most of the competition. If they really wanted to keep ‘their territory safe’ then the best way is to produce models that leave no gap for an alternative. The minor changes to the HST for example still do not produce a definitive high end model, but are purely intended to stamp on any chance of a competing version. Why is it they feel they have the right to dictate that their mediocre offering is all we’re allowed?

Then there are the amount of errors in decoration or just plain carelessness - just look at the awful livery application of the blue/grey LNER farewell HST in the HST thread. 

 

The people: I just feel that, unlike some of the new players, that the staff there are not interested. It appears to be just a job to them and not one they appear to care about or do very well at judging by the output.

The likes of Accurascale, Cavalex, Rapido etc are clearly run by people who care and have a passion to improve things and deliver the best, most accurate, models that they can.

SKs arrogance is clear to see and those programmes, this week’s announcements, Titgate and just their general lack of care and attention on the models themselves have reinforced my view that Hornby is a business I will no longer be purchasing from, either indirectly or directly from the website! 
 

Apologies for the long post! 
 

9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

And?

 

Bachmann are hardly a 'small player' in model railways yet they are not stocked in any of retailers you list.

 

Moreover do those retailers you list feature a comprehensive collection of Hornby products? The last time I looked the offerings at Argos consisted of a couple of train sets - hardly evidence of a serious model railway retailer and pretending to they are is akin to saying Lidl is a serious DIY store or Tesco a serious garden centre because both happen to sell a small range of said products.

 

Now I don't deny that a Hornby 'Inspired by the Titfield Thunderbolt' set might well appeal to the non modelling community who happen to browse such stores and generate additional sales for Hornby - BUT on the flip side since when has the Titfield Thunderbolt been a movie kids have raved over? In fact I bet the majority of those under 50 probably have zero idea the film even exists let alone what to buy merchandise associated with it in toy stores  - if we are talking about the 'general public' so to speak I reckon you could probably make grater sales by advertising it in magazines geared to people over 50 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m early 40s and I certainly had never heard of the film before now, or Lion for that matter, so was a bit oblivious to it all until it all kicked off on Monday! 

48 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

A couple of years back full fat royal ones didn't sell and hattons were chucking em out for £75 - so they won't do em again in a hurry .

 

And as has been said in a few places the current DB and belmont ones are still knocking about - they won't produce any more of a type seen as a poor seller .

 

Is there a description of this tier thing anywhere ? i don't get how a multi million pound dealer like hattons isn't in the top 

 

 

Didn’t they mess the livery up on at least one of the Royal 67s?! I remember buying one early on, but seem to recall comments about the roof being wrong colour so that may have put some off and I sold mine on! 

5 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Some of the 20 will include Irish models don't forget.  My beloved 80 class will account for at least a few (about as subtle a hint to Accurascale as a Mrs Brown's Boys script).  Then who knows, possibly an NIR Hunslet, especially as they were English Electric, sounded like the "Whistling Wardrobes" and ran on similar bogies.

I wonder if Bachmann's retooled 20s would rule out a competing 20 to share it's noise and innards with the NIR Hunslet?  Probably not given they've already launched missiles at Barwell towards their Deltic and 37s...

I’d certainly add my vote to a decent 20 to AS standards!

3 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I think that would be an interesting one assuming it could be paid for with one run. Pretty much one livery to cover a long time, so doing 3 running numbers would allow 4, 8 or 12 car sets but any set could be of appeal to anyone the 325 is relevant to. I don't think the livery has changed over the years has it? Mostly WCML but they do/did get elsewhere.

Two versions of red - original with twin yellow stripes which went diagonal at ends (as RM lorry/van livery of the time) and the current plain version. 

5 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

I'm not going to speculate about exact models but given that one of the AS quoted earlier in the thread that there were 20 new announcements coming in 2022, that means a new product every 2 and half weeks!

And as we’re almost two weeks in already that must surely mean one is due soon?!! 

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Hornby is a household name in this country, a brand as unambiguously associated with one product type, almost like "Hoover" means a vacuum cleaner.  The brand has meant "toy train sets" to just about everybody born in this country since before WW2.

 

People don't know or care who has taken over whom, or that today's products are somewhat different from what our fathers and grandfathers remember.  Most of the population hasn't even heard of Bachmann, Studio Canal or Kader let alone the likes of Rapido.

 

I think it was business size that was being mentioned by the other poster not brand awareness.

I think most would agree that Hornby is probably the most well known - but brands can come and brands can go, and if StudioCanal took them to cleaners I’d not mourn the loss of it. 
 

A lot bigger brands than Hornby have disappeared over the years! 

26 minutes ago, 60800 said:

Noted in the Hornby magazine video for the HST;

 

New light clusters have been tooled, so it's possible we have the full midland and reduced midland (LSL) configurations available now.

 

Both day and light modes for the headlights plus cab lights 

 

Rotating roof fans which use their own motor 

 

21 pin decoder sockets 

 

Sugar cube speaker housing 

 

Cheers,

  60800

 

 

The trouble is, it’s all very well them tooling the different light clusters etc but can they be trusted to actually use the correct ones when they produce the models?! 
 

It seems beyond them to use the correct roof on a buffet or the right interior for a standard class coach so I wouldn’t hold out much hope! Lol. Didn’t the recent 31/1 use a 31/4 body?!! 

2 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

I really hope so as one is on the way to me. But I would like to point out that silmilar statements were be made about DJM ... until they wern't being made anymore. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I think DJM wore a cowboy hat rather than a balaclava? Or maybe it was both! Haha. 

3 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I humbly submit that the very last thing Accurascale need is SK's input  

If there was a ever a need to be able to use more than one of the thumbs up at a time it was now! Lol. 

7 minutes ago, The Black Prince said:

 

I wonder if they have done one wagon as a "taster" , ie if it flops then it isn't too bad - and then subsequent batches will appear ? The price point for the size of wagon is on par with everyone else now so they do seem good value for money. Unlike some of the announcements ! 

The price point may be on par, but how does the quality and detail compare to the likes of Accurascale etc? It looks a little basic but I’ve not seen one up close. 

How old is the Drax tooling now? It feels like a couple of years ago but probably much longer! 

29 minutes ago, 30368 said:

I think that Hornby (and all the main suppliers of ready to run) do a great job. I have to say though that the pricing of the, mainly, warmed up steam outline range is a little high......

 

Our hobby is not alone in this "post" covid, post Brexit price hike. It seems that many companies are taking advantage and going for it. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out!

 

Meanwhile the going rate for a steam outline loco seems to be edging towards £300 fairly quickly. At that price, building a loco from a kit will be cheap(er) now and keeps a number of small UK based suppliers in business and... most importantly, is very rewarding.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Steam not my thing, but the Accurascale Manor is £169.99 or £259.99 with sound for something far superior to anything Hornby has ever produced! 
 

A great looking model at a price that doesn’t leave you feeling robbed… unlike Hornby - I’m sure SK should wear a balaclava! Lol. 

17 minutes ago, pheaton said:

but Bachmann on the 47 front have looming competition from Heljan, if you disregard the current issues with it...(which you never know might get corrected) the 47 has much to big market share in the modelling community to lose to potential competitors superior model (note we haven't been told the full spec of the Heljan one) 

 

whereas with the 50 there is no new model or planned model it can possibly lag behind...age is irrelevant at the moment...its the top of the food chain...

 

why spend money on a model that has no planned equals....

 

I think we are past that stage to know...that people will buy models if there is no alternative....hence the reason lima fag packet sleepers sold for £300+ on eBay same with lima HSTs.. which right to the end were punching well above their weight on the selling prices.....

 

an even clearer example....the original Hornby APT...and triangle blue pullman....sold for stupid money...and it wasn't because of their antique value!

 

and regards price...yes of course the price had to increase to offset the initial outlay...but bear this in mind....

I would expect over the coming year the prices of the class 37s....coaches...to all start creeping up.

No planned equals (or likely far better) that they or we know about - yet! 
 

Typical Hornby trait - continue to palm off an ok-ish model, make no continued investment in improving the model and leave a gap in the market for a superior one. Then whinge and react in the way they usually do because someone has strayed into ‘their territory’ despite them not giving a t**s for years! 

Am I correct in assuming this will be in its current as preserved condition rather than late 80s/90s in service condition?

I think there are a few (minor) differences in small details between the two? The overhead warning flashes for example. 
 

Cheers. 

Personally I think Hornby should stick to Railroad and Playtrain as this is something where they can capitalise on a market they almost have to themselves! 
 

After last year’s announcements I emailed SK regarding the chances of a BR Blue 31/4 and the reply gave the impression I was certainly not alone in my request (actually I would like around 10 in total!) however we get yet another unrefurbished 31/1!

Maybe we all need to form our own fake manufacturers and announce what we are releasing (need!) as Hornby would no doubt release them straight away if they think you’re stepping on their toes! Lol. 
 

All partly irrelevant now as I’ve come to the conclusion not to buy anything further from them regardless due their bullying practices!