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36 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

Finally some retooled Mk3s. I will probably have to wait until 2023 for blue/grey, exec and swallow liveries but it is good news. I may even have a layout by then and my power cars will have something to haul

Hopefully the rumoured and, no doubt, far superior competing HST will have been announced by then! 

Happy New Year to all and here’s to some fabulous announcements hopefully on the way from the guys at Accurascale! 
 

Having just cancelled all of my Hornby orders due to their bullying tactics it needs to go somewhere else! Lol. So 31 and HST please, hint hint!! 

11 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The legal stuff, if there actually is any of substance, will play out, but it seems to me that what r-t-r 00 buyers really ought to be focusing on is a question that goes something like this:

 

Is it in the better interests of r-t-r 00 buyers to have:

 

a) Hornby as a very large part of the hobby, acting as the default public face, and probably providing an “entry point” for at least some new recruits, and at the same acting to crush nascent competition if it can; or,

 

b) for Hornby to descend to a slightly lesser place, and “the trade” to re-shape to be much more pluralistic, and without a single company sufficiently dominant to be the default public face?

 

I don’t claim to know what is in the best interests of buyers of r-t-r 00, but I do think that trying to maintain a “broad spectrum, complete system, entry-level to highly-specialised” model railway company is rowing against the tide of history at the moment, because the technology enables new entrants, and because the lucrative part of the market (adult enthusiasts, many not exactly youthful) doesn’t really want or need to buy a complete system from one company, it actively enjoys pluralistic supply. 

 

Other hobbies seem to thrive, and attract new entrants, without needing a dominant, whole-system supplier to act as their public face. There are big suppliers of fishing tackle, plastic model ‘plane kits, football gear etc, but they aren’t “the hobby” in the same way that some seem to believe Hornby necessarily has to be.

 

In short: is it in your interests for Hornby to crush completion?

 

 

My own view would be for Hornby to stick to Railroad and Playtrain type stuff and leave the serious models to those who can do them justice! They have that segment of the market almost to themselves and should probably maximise that rather than picking fights and trying to snub out competition. 

44 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

I have come to the conclusion this morning that today's announcement by Hornby has been a resounding shot in the foot, at least in terms of their reputation within this forum.  They've made a huge annoucemnt of all sorts of new stuff, and the only thing people are talking about is their deliberate attempt to damage the sales of a competitor's new product by a deliberate and wasteful duplication, which is being perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a spiteful act of bullying. 
Whether or not they get sued sucessfully over this is a moot point IMHO.  They've done themselves no favours with modellers by deliberate duplication, which we all hate.  THe biggest frustration as a modeller these days is lack of supply and huge waiting times for new products.  None us us want to have to choose between two duplicate new models.  We want to see two new models of something different, where we might even buy both of them.
This is weapons grade stupidity.

Personally I don’t agree with no duplication across the board as that would mean some of the Hornby models I’d like to see done much better (31 and HST for example) wouldn’t! 
 

I do believe in an open market and that those who bring out the better models and for the best value succeed.

Where my issues lies is in Hornby’s bullying tactics and trying to spoil the market for better models by flooding the market with mediocre ones when they get a whiff of competition! I’m sure if someone else announced a BR Blue 31/4 for example then suddenly one would appear from Hornby despite ignoring requests for one for years! 

In the past I probably would of or have purchased Hornby, but I’ve now reached the point where I’d rather do without and hope that someone better produces a competing model

27 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I'm sorry, but are you are putting the long-term future of Hornby as more important than the long-term future of other companies? Hornby can do what they like to survive, legal or otherwise?

 

IPR and the like are there for a reason and not to be just ignored when convenient. Assuming that the position between StudioCanal and Rapido is just as described, Hornby should hang their heads in shame and withdraw the model immediately. To not do so may cost Rapido sales now, in favour of a Hornby model that never actually reaches the market. 

 

I decided against purchasing any more Hornby models over their treatment of people with the tier system, just sticking with my one pre-order for an APT with Kernow. I came today to see how my self imposed embargo was going to impact me, all that has happened is my non-purchase of  Hornby items has been reinforced.

Roy

 

 

 

I totally agree and I for one certainly wouldn’t shed a tear if Hornby were no more! 
 

I’d already decided that I’d not be purchasing anything further of theirs regardless of what they announced today but their bullying tactics have really left a bad taste in the mouth and I’ve cancelled all my outstanding (not in terms of the quality that’s for sure!) pre orders for Hornby.

Anything I already have will be going on eBay shortly and the de-Hornbyification will be complete! 
 

For those who think that’s a bit extreme, it’s about the principal of it and Hornby’s tactics having a negative effect on the hobby. If they think they can just bully others out of the market - especially those producing far superior models - and get away with it then I’d rather make do without. 

2 hours ago, Holmesfeldian said:

Bachmann's achilles in diesel locos have always been the very poor buffer beam detail, especially the ETH and multiple working cables and connectors. 

The class 40 MW bogie details is 0 gauge !

 

Heljan has always been far superior definition in this respect.

But if I had to pick one or the other I’d take correct shape of body over buffer beam detail which is where Heljan is far inferior! 

1 hour ago, jonnyuk said:

that's a bit harsh on Sam, Phil and Holly are so far up their own ar.........

To bring it back on topic, the price of the power cars is eye watering.....i have  a pullman set on order and i'm seriously considering cancelling it, i just can't afford that, along with price raises on the 91 and APT, something has to give.

 

But they do at least know how to enjoy themselves! I don’t actually watch this morning (but will admit to occasionally watching the short videos when they lose it!) but I’ve watched about 5 mins of Sam and found it so dreary - I’d imagine having Long Covid is less energy sapping than sitting through his videos! 
 

As you say though, back on topic and I think I agree the prices are eye watering and, although not necessarily about affordability for me as I’m generally lucky enough to be able to buy what I like, I do feel with Hornby that it is not value for money as their models are pretty basic (dcc wise at least) in comparison to competitors. 

14 hours ago, adb968008 said:

So now we have a choice of Phil /Holly or Sams Trains….for well researched, quality reviews.

 

 

I think I’d take Phil & Holly over that other annoying t…! 

10 hours ago, Riddles said:

I'm surprised nobody seems to care that the SFX versions don't include a Stay Alive capacitor. It's a standard feature with Accurascale and an option with SLW. For the price, it should have been fitted.

I agree, that is the one big thing it is lacking. That and the snowploughs are probably going to be my biggest issues with it.

I think had Heljan got the shape of theirs correct then my money would have been heading that way with a full fleet replacement eventually as they certainly have the better range of models at first release. I think I had about 10 of the first batch on pre order but have subsequently cancelled because of the problems. 
 

I’ve ordered 2 Bachmann - the SFX 47004, mainly to see if the extras are worth bothering about and a standard 47828. I guess as these kind of complement the existing Bachmann version then full replacement isn’t necessary, or for that matter achievable, unless Bachmann change their usually limited release schedule and up the number of versions available then it would take decades! 

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

What's wrong with their original Hymek?

 

It might lack a bit of detail, but I've never thought there was much else to criticise.

 

John

Sorry, I maybe wasn’t too clear but it was a more general observation about Heljan models rather than specific to the Hymek!

The ‘revised’ part being that their models are usually different from the prototype as they’ve messed up the shape somehow! 
 

Anyway the plus side of that is, trying to get back on thread, is that it allows for someone to come along later and do them properly! 

10 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

I'm not too sure that a bit of errant paint warrants another manufacturer to make an alternate version...........................

I know some may choose otherwise, but I wouldn’t spend £200-300 on a loco just to repaint/correct it because the manufacturer can’t get it right in the first place.

So if Hornby can’t be bothered to get it right then for me that says there is a gap for an alternative manufacturer who will.

Obviously the easy answer is for Hornby to put a bit of effort in to get the liveries correct as the base model is, I agree, pretty good and probably one of their best. 

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, Heljan have already intimated that a revised Hymek is on the way. The existing one has migrated to Bachmann's EFE conglomeration.

 

Correction: The Hornby Ferry Van is EXTREMELY dated.

 

John

Does a Heljan revised model mean they’ll find something else to get wrong that they hadn’t already?! 

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Don't lump me in with "WE ALL".

 

What's wrong with the Hornby 60?

As much as Hornby are off my Xmas card list, the only thing wrong with the current 60 is the lack of lighting functions (and it's way better than a Bachmann 66 on that front) - and coupler if using the kinematic mount.

 

Easily, still in the top 3 RTR 00 diesels ever made.

 

 

 

Bodywise I’d agree it’s pretty good but it usually suffers from Hornby’s inability to decorate anything correctly! 

11 hours ago, stonojnr said:

 

it means "sound effects" or "special effects" (as the "effects" sounds like FX) in the movie industry, I assume Bachmann are just reusing it in that context

SF = Sound Fitted so I’m assuming SFX is Sound Fitted with Xtra’s? (Ie working fans and fancy windscreens!) 

On 24/12/2021 at 12:27, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Hope santa brings you some tape measures, rulers and micrometers!

 

Mike.

I think that present needs to have Heljan’s name on it! Haha. 

I would say - again - a 31/4 in BR Blue!

Although, now having waited so long for one I wouldn’t actually buy one if they did, I think the 31 is ripe for picking off by one of the new manufacturers (along with most of their diesel range to be honest) so I’m in the process of selling anything I have that’s Hornby anyway! 

6 hours ago, outatime said:

I'll go for the Dapol Manor, the rivets of the Accurascale Version are too prominent imho, especially those on the footplate.

Looking on the other thread the rivets are measured and scaled. Dapol’s looks almost ‘bald’ to me which I think adds to the plasticy look I feel. World would be boring if we all thought the same though! 

13 hours ago, Marcoblanco said:

Amazingly no driver ,considering Bachmann thought of everything else! [Maybe that's for the deluxe ultra version!] I wont be taking this kit apart, il live with that! A fantastic model. Il be pressed on the budget for a while.. Hopefully there's delays on the Acc' 37! 

I may be in a minority but I’m actually glad there isn’t a driver! 
 

For those who use their locos in both directions or have depots/stabling points they look daft as they’re either at the wrong end half the time or you’d have a depot full of drivers just sat there! Very unproductive! Lol.
 

Never mind! At least there’s a decent alternative to choose from! ;-)

The Accurascale version is winning hands down for me, makes the Dapol one look very ‘plasticy’. 

Quite interesting comparing the new Bachmann 47 with the Heljan one above.

Bachmann does seem to have made a much better job of the shape and looking at the Railfreight Construction one in particular the livery layout seems to be pretty good too.
 

Another issue with Heljan’s model, and this is probably caused by the issues with the roof I guess, is that the body side windows are to low. 
 

The lower edge of these should be higher than the lower edge of the cab side windows but isn’t and looks practically level - this causes them issues on the sectorisation freight/parcels liveries as there should be some of the upper body side band under the window but if they paint them correctly there isn’t the space! 
 

If you look at pictures of their O gauge model in Civil Engineers livery (the same basic layout as Construction) you can see how they’ve tried to hide this fact and fudge it by broadening the upper band and then adding copious amounts of black under the cab windows with a taper up to the front ledge!

It just looks odd to my eyes. It’s a shame they didn’t spend the time getting it right in the first place than having to come up with a fudge to hide the errors!
 

On 18/12/2021 at 09:33, Sir TophamHatt said:

A bit late on this but glad the current offering isn't changing too much.

I have my Swallow and MML versions, but if I know there is a newer version, I'd feel bad for having the old.

 

For example, the 158 - the new version is amazing compared with the old - so much so that I am waiting for my preferred livery rather than buying the old model.  I know I am at risk with my Voyager and even the 170.  I can see major upgrades to those but the HST, I wonder whether it's just "done" now - much like the 37, 47, 66 - many locos that can't really be improved.

 

That's what I think about the HST now.

It's done, can't really be improved (thinking about RR range compared with the err.. not RR version!).

I guess it depends on your point of view but I’d say it can be majorly improved - assuming by HST you mean loco AND coaches then Hornby’s Mk3s really let the whole thing down.

The power cars aren’t too bad but something isn’t quite right with the front and then there’s the  basic dcc functions with Hornby being wedded to 8pin.

The coaches are just too basic these days and I find Hornby’s bizarre decision to mould the CDL lights compromised both those models that should or shouldn’t have them. Surely it would have been better not to have moulded them, therefore not spoiling coaches not so fitted with these pointless lumps and merely printing orange squares for the ones that should? I don’t think the current orange lump makes much difference than if it had been flat and would actually be easier to improve if you wanted to upgrade it to a CDL light. 

And on top of the above, Hornby’s inability to actually match the right body parts on occasions and errors in decoration I really feel the HST is crying out to be done properly to current standards by someone else! 

14 minutes ago, LaGrange said:

 

Correct - The first order for four Class 59s was placed on 16 November 1984 and the locomotives arrived at Southampton on 21 January 1986....... Would have taken less only the design had to fit inside the UK loading gauge, most of the components were well tried and tested

 

 

If it takes much longer it must be getting nearer to the time taken to deliver from 59001 to 59206!! Lol. 

9 hours ago, mikeford2002uk said:

Photo of the Heljan 47 in the display cabinet at Heaton Lodge Junction in Wakefield this weekend

 

 

Thanks for posting this, that clearly shows that all the previously noted issues are still there, most obviously the roof where the grills/serck slat area looks completely wrong. The serck appears to be one slat short and should be much higher up the roof than the other grills, but they’re practically level.

Anything suitable for 1985-1991 will be welcome! I’ve already offloaded my Bachmann fleet in readiness! ;-)

18 hours ago, MrTea said:

It’s not that long until 10th January when we find out what Hornby are planning for the 2022 range…
 

I do think it’s ironic that what a large number of the contributors to this thread really, really want to know is: which other manufacturer is going to release a new HST model? 
 

Perhaps Rapido/Accurascale/Bachmann/Dapol/Heljan could do the decent thing and get on with announcing their announcement?!

(if indeed any of them have got one to announce)

 

…then at least we can start the discussion about that in anger! 

Yes that would be good! It will either cause major elation or disappointment depending on an individual’s pov! 
 

Personally Heljan would be a real disappointment as they’d probably make a worse job than Hornby with the shape! And they both have issues with livery application errors.
 

Bachmann would cost a fortune and they’d probably only release one of each coach so would take decades to assemble a full rake at the rate they release them!
 

Dapol, not sure as not really ever bought any of their models but I guess they have some research from their n gauge version so may scale up. 
 

Hoping for Accurascale personally!