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There’s also the Irish angle with Mk3s - if Accurascale/IRM tooled up a full range of Mk3s then surely the power cars would be a logical add on?!

I really hope someone (by someone I mean Accurascale! Lol) is doing one as I can’t wait to rid myself of anything Hornby to be honest. They’ve had their day as far as I’m concerned, not just the models but their practices too. If they want to protect their market share they should up their game regardless, not just use spoiling tactics when they have competition. 
 

With the new Cavalex 56 and a potential new HST, that would just leave someone to do an improved 31 and I’ll be Hornby free! 

I really hope someone else IS doing an HST and they stick with it. Hornby seem to think they have god given right to certain models yet generally produce models that are well below par.

Rather than bullying other manufacturers who will most likely make a decent job of it, they should probably stick to Railroad/toys and leave the high spec models to those who are capable of producing them!! 

On 16/11/2021 at 13:00, e30ftw said:

Agreed, it seems to be obviously the wrong shade/colour, it would be nice to see how Bachmann justify this.

 

I too would have been intrested in both, but at nearly £300 for a two car DMU with obvious livery errors im out, i guess modelers will vote with their wallet. If they sell out Bachmann wont care about getting liverys correct in the future.

 

 

I agree.

I’ve been waiting for the Provincial /2 for ages but I’m not buying it at the current price. The quality is just not there to justify the highest prices being charged. 

Those light clusters look like they’re Lima from the 1990s! The whole thing should be black not just a printed flat piece around the lights.

14 minutes ago, GordonC said:

The Class 47s is a very crowded market, while the vast majority of modellers will have at least one in their collection, there will be a lot of models already in circulation whether its Hornby, Lima (or Hornby ex-Lima), earlier Bachmann, earlier Heljan, Vitrains or now the new Bachmann and Heljan models. It would need to be a brave manufacturer to commit to tooling one up with all the detail variations thats now expected in the market and would really need to offer something that the others dont to pick up sales. Competing with pre-owned models that were sold for half the current price would be tough, but the Bachmann one is getting pretty expensive at the top end so if they could do comparable quality at a cheaper price there would be a gap there.

 

As things stand, I'd suggest a Class 31 would be an open goal with a large number of livery variations, wide geographical spread, long lifespan and the current manufacturer of the high spec model seemingly disinterested in the gaps not yet produced.

But the same could be said for other models?

The Class 25 is a similar situation - both Heljan and Bachmann have models of them. Heljan haven’t nailed it looks wise and the Bachmann one looks ok but not quite top spec. Yet SLW, who could be called a somewhat more niche and less well known manufacturer than Accurascale, is bringing one out and they seem to be selling out.

I don’t think there’s any question on the comparable quality of Accurascale though, and a look through their website will show you get so much for your money! 
 

I agree on the 31 though! ;-) 

5 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes but I thought we came on here to discuss opinions, not just state them! I was simply offering what I felt was a reasoned counter argument (just as you were offering an opinion on my post).

 

 

Yes, definitely not horrendous, but they are not brand new tooled models, they are ones that have been around for a while with room for improvement. They will also be entering a marketplace with only 1 opponent (discounting Hornbys RR) rather than 2 in the case of a 47.

 

 

That depends on whether they have any idea who AS are and whether they are willing to buy their product. A lot of people are suspicious of new kids on the block (not the boy band). In 10 years time it might be a completely different conversation.

 

If AS did a 47, I'd probably buy it over the competition if the quality and price are where the 55 and 37 look to be, but I probably aren't the average customer either.

 

If people only bought on quality/price ratio Hornby wouldn't be in the market leaders (in terms of market share), which they are AFAIK, would they? A lot of sales are based on brand familiarity.

Sorry for the confusion, the bit about being clear was more towards you saying I need to remember not everyone thinks like me, when I had already said that I maybe alone in my view - not that it wasn’t up for discussion! 
 

Again only from personal observation, but being the new kids on the block (I got told off comparing them to Ant & Dec winning awards before!!) doesn’t seem to be having any negative affect in my eyes - they certainly don’t seem to be lacking customer numbers for the amount of past, existing and future models selling out? 

23 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

If it was your money being invested would you still think the same? You need to remember that not all buyers are like you, and if they have a pot of money to spend on tooling why would they use it to go and pick a difficult fight when there are easier ones out there? The 31 being a good example, tooling has been around for years, is generally thought of as being sub optimal, Hornby drip feeding releases, and so on.

 

Let's say that AS did a 47, they'd still lose out on loads of sales simply because Bachmann are more established in the marketplace than they are IMO and also have new tooling. Put the Heljan one into the equation and it might be that AS get 30% ish of the market IF they are lucky in my opinion (speculation). OTOH 30% of the 47 market is probably bigger than a lot of the weird and wonderful stuff we have seen made in the past.

I think I made it clear that it is my view and there may or may not be people that agree with it?

I can’t spend Accurascale’s investment money for them, obviously, that is their decision to make but looking at sales of their 37/55 they seem to be doing more than ok against, let’s say not horrendous, existing Bachmann models so if it was my own money, I’d not be discounting the idea just yet!

Let’s not forget the VFM angle though, at todays prices a top of range AS 37 rrp is £259.00, Bachmann’s 47 rrp is £369.95 - even with discount that is still £315.00 so 25% dearer. So for every 4 Bachmann’s I might buy I could get 5 AS - are people really that loyal to Bachmann that they’d pay so much over the odds?

On 09/11/2021 at 10:58, TomScrut said:

 

I think the 31 and HST could be argued as a good case, neither from Hornby are spot on, lack DCC features and despite a HST needing coaches tooling too there are loads of liveries and pretty much anybody basing their layouts on the last 40 years could argue the case for one. Whether everyone already has all the HSTs they want is another matter altogether. I'd also like to see AS's dedication to specific tooling applied to the NMT, although I aren't holding my breath.

 

08 I think whilst there are 2 good examples out there, neither have lighting but also how popular is an 08 at well over £100? In the right livery I'd probably bite though.

 

20 and 47 have just been done by Bachmann, and Heljan have a 47 on the way too so I think those would be an unnecessary fight!

I guess as this thread is all about models that we’d like to see Accurascale do then there are no wrong or right answers!

Personally I have three requirements, accuracy, value for money and whether or not I connect with the brand.

Accurascale tick all three boxes and then some for me so I’d like anything I buy to be from them! Cavalex and SLW are also producing great models. 

With Bachmann 47 I feel that it is not value for money for something that is comparable (but still not quite there in my view) to an AS loco and Heljan can’t seem to get the shape sorted so I believe there is still a gap for an AS model! I may be alone in that view, I may not!

There also the release speed of models, the new manufacturers all seem to release reasonable batches of models at a time whereas the likes of Hornby and Bachmann, in particular, seem to drip feed them at snails pace, if at all!

Hornby, for example, have never released a BR Blue 31/4 to my knowledge? Despite this sub class being substantial in the 80s and featuring across much of the country. Bachmann’s pedestrian releases will probably mean a long wait for certain liveries stretching into years or even decades! 

I emailed Bachmann after the announcement to ask if the released images were a sample or the production models because of the odd black squares on the corners of the yellow. I also mentioned the grey looked a bit yellow but accepted it may just be my memory!

This was the response…

“The livery for this model was produced using original livery diagrams and the grey used is Executive Light Grey as specified for the real units, this matches good quality period photos of the real units when they were first outshopped.”

No mention of the squares, so I then asked if those same “original livery diagrams and good quality period photos” showed the strange black squares? I got no further response from them!
 

Make of that what you will!

The more I look at it the worse it gets!

There seems to be far too much body between the ledge and top of the headcode box? Think it’s been said before but the handle across the front doesn’t look right either.

If the roof is too flat, is there now too much body to give a correct overall height?

1 hour ago, Downer said:

I think Accurascale could probably sue you for comparing them to Ant and Dec.

 

Lol. Possibly badly worded! Was more the comparison with winning every year than a comparison with the people themselves!

I know ‘duplication’ can be a dirty word in model railways, but to be honest I’m all for it if it means we get models to the standards the Accurascale guys are producing!

Not only are the models great but reasonably priced too.

In a totally selfish request I’d like to see 08, 20, 31, 47 and HST from them! Along with Mk1s and a full range of Mk2s.

It’s not just the models, they really get how to communicate with their target market and it’s no wonder they have won Manufacturer of the Year!

I think they may be the equivalent of Ant & Dec at the TV awards - ie they should win it every year!! 

The Provincial 150/2 is a very welcome surprise! But what are the strange black squares at the bottom/side corner of the yellow warning panel on each side?! I’ve yet to find a photo of one in that condition! Am I missing something?!! 
 

Also, due to changing era it’s a long time since I’ve bought a 150 and never with sound. Any comments on the sound quality at all? Cheers.

26 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

Is there definitely going to be an announcement? The latest news on the Bachmann website is now plugging the Autumn announcements and not a peep about tomorrow. Similarly no e-mail from Collectors' Club which I thought preceded it with a link to the presentation. 

 

Roy

The Autumn announcements were in August, tomorrow’s are the Winter! 

I wasn’t expecting these to be in the red door version, I guess mainly because the photo used of the entire set didn’t have them! It may have totally passed me by that this was the plan all along though!  

They seem to have gained these around 2004 looking at pictures (was this during the Mallard refurb?) and it became NX in 2008 and then the white stripe was added.

I always liked GNER livery, although my preference was always the original version without red doors! 
 

55 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

Though I salute Bachmann for retooling the Class 47, but I'm going to hang back for the moment and see what Heljan's version is like in comparison, though I'm hoping that there's not going to be much in it and it's solely down to price.

The Bachmann one appears to be much more accurate in terms of the shape - of course Heljan may surprise everyone and sort the issues out before release but I wouldn’t hold my breath as they haven’t on other models. 

The main one for me seems to be around the roof, which in turn has pushed the body side windows too low.
 

Of course these issues may not bother you, but for me my era of choice is late 80s early 90s and a lot of the liveries of this era feature the upper body band which highlights the issue more than a plain all over blue would for example.

Have a look the Heljan O gauge model and compare to a real photo, particularly the Dutch liveried one where they have tried to disguise the windows being too low by increasing the depth of the yellow band to create more colour below the window, but this in turn has meant they need to put more black under the cab window! The mid body steps are a good indication of how much lower the band comes down than the real thing.
 

The Bachmann looks a much better model to my eye, but it depends on how much value you put on total accuracy I guess! 
 

On 25/10/2021 at 10:19, The Black Hat said:

I will stand in front of the tide on this one and prefer the top. Mainly as this fits more with stock available and the livery lasted into privatisation. 

I’m a bit confused by ‘fits more with stock available’?! 
 

The original livery was first delivered in 1986 and seems to have lasted through to the mid 1990s, so from predominantly blue/grey livery and then through most of the sectorisation era and the liveries that produced.

The revised example seems to have first appeared around 1994 and lasted until early 2000s, although there are several different versions of logos applied during that time - Regional Railways in white on red, in red on white and after privatisation possibly none at all and then there was the change to the style overhead warning stickers and the change from white to black destination blinds as well - so each version could have quite a narrow period of accuracy compared to the original was pretty standard and constant across its entire life.

9 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Yes Northern & Metro Red & Provincial.  After the heavily 'Covid' delayed 142.

 

QUESTION.  Which Metro red ?????????????????

 

 

Another vote for the bottom one - original yellow stripe version just in case my phone has decided to switch the pics around!!

So the massive capacitor in the window made it to the production models then! 

20 hours ago, The 158 Man said:

That INTERCITY one looks absolutely glorious. 

It does! They finally seem to have matched the colours (at least how I remember them!) compared to the previous efforts on 834/835 which always looked a bit off to me. 

6 hours ago, The 158 Man said:

 

Look at the state of that! A disgrace to the livery. I don't think I've ever seen an IC coach so dirty. 

 

And what a weird set. All first class and with 3 brakes too, I wonder if it was some form of special or trial? I'd hope it's not a first class only Pullman Charter or something, imagine arriving at the station to board and this filthy rake pulls in! 

 

You're absolutely right in your observations of course, I wonder if this coach was the one Bachmann produced? I.e the first (or indeed a very early) example off the production line. That would certainly explain the lack of door locking lights. 

 

It also makes sense that the RFBs would be one of the first* bits of rolling stock to receive the INTERCITY branding, because during their conversion I feel sure they'll have had a repaint as well. It would make zero sense to send them back out with InterCity on.

 

* Incidentally, the very first stock to receive this was the white roofed charter stock in 1987, replacing the InterCity lettering it had worn since 1985. I've included this info here because I'm a very boring person and the dogs are sick of listening to me. 

Although the very first train that appears in that video also has a RFB and then all but one of the TSOs behind it have INTERCITY! The one that doesn’t is blank so no old logos at all on that one! 
 

I’m hoping for some INTERCITY without CDL lights on all the others! 

5 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

I guess this is problem with not announcing stuff when work is started on it. There is a lack of peer review. And if problems are mentioned there is little that can be done to fix it. Whilst Bachmann and others have been slated for long release times, it has some benefits. The steps and the snowploughs are annoying. Snow ploughs easier to solve. I’m sure alternatives are available. It Does leave Heljan in a position to exploit these ‘weaknesses’. Also I’m not slating Bachmanns new announcement policy, it is far better and having waited almost a decade for the 158, it’s a welcome change. Also as with most recent models, the criticisms are tiny, but at a £229 price tag any problem is a big one imo. 

I think Heljan have far bigger weaknesses with the shape to fix themselves! 
 

I was looking at the Heljan O gauge livery samples and they appear to have had to modify the livery on the Dutch one to hide the fact the side windows are too low - there now being too much black around the cab windows and the yellow stripe is too deep.

The Bachmann one does look far better but it is a shame about the ploughs.

I do hope that we see regular releases of this model in various liveries, and with multiple running numbers, rather than being drip fed infrequently as before. 

The one bonus with Heljan was there were a large number of releases (including those from Gaugemaster) and I would have got around 9 or 10 from the first batch. 

On 10/05/2021 at 21:06, Butler Henderson said:

In the circumstances of not having tooled the nose up correctly might they consider supplying a dummy lamp for the user to fit; the Replica one might be a solution but what are the chances of the yellows actually matching.

Unfortunately on the one that should have the headlight on the maroon, they appear to have printed the LT logo too low (if the original images are correct) so there won’t be room to add it retrospectively without covering some lettering. 
 

Even if they weren’t going to add a headlight they could have printed the logo in correct place. 

On 04/08/2021 at 13:14, TomScrut said:

 

I have done a bit more looking and the radiator end is different too, it has lamps in the headcode panels at this end nowadays, it didn't in the 90s. Interestingly though most of the pics I can see that end is normally at the back and so out of sight.

 

Also the small rectangles painted on the model aren't on it at the moment.

 

So from what I can tell, from looking and from yours and others posts on here, the differences so far between the model and the loco as preserved (to be clear I know that is not the subject of the model) are:

 

MW Jumpers

Headcode lights at radiator end

OHLE signs

Checkerplate under doors

Rectangles down bodyside in white area

Also, I think the Swallow on the side of model that we can see is incorrect for 1990s and is actually how it is currently, but when I asked Bachmann they have said that it will be corrected on the production run. This would therefore make it different than it’s preserved (and incorrect!) position. 
 

Hope that makes sense?!

ie the swallow wings should be tilted in the same direction as INTERCITY. Although I believe even BR got it wrong sometimes! 

2 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi everyone,

 

Here are a couple of our formation guides to provide further inspiration! Just click on them to enlarge.

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

You’re certainly providing the inspiration!

Another great release and hopefully will lead onto the rest of the Mk2 types at some point. Certainly setting the standard! Now if you can just provide everything else on there too that will be excellent!! ;-)
 

11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

In answer to your question it's not for people to bang on relentlessly on minor points; people will either agree with you or disagree but to keep repeating yourself just annoys people (me included). Hopefully that's clear enough for you.

Crystal!