Global

I probably should call it a day now as it wasn’t my intention to fill half a thread this morning! I guess it’s more born out of frustration than anything, basically being told it doesn’t matter to some so it shouldn’t matter to you! I agree that it has a lot of potential and maybe on attempt two or three it’ll be a great model, I really wanted to buy some of these (and the 45 - and still hoping they can turn the 47 around) but I don’t think it offers enough improvement visually to ditch the Bachmann fleet just yet.

Apologies, it was a bit more generalised than necessarily just about the 25, but I didn’t make that clear. That honour is probably reserved for the Dapol 150 from years ago!

I do disagree with that but if you can point me in the direction of that then I’ll take a look, however from the Which site it would appear you have more not less rights to return based on the fact you are relying on a brief description or photograph and may not match what you expected... “The Consumer Contracts Regulations When you buy goods online you have additional rights to return them. This is because your decision may be based on a brief description or a photograph – so what you receive isn't always quite what you’d expected. Under the Consumer Contracts Regulations, you are allowed to return an item if you simply change your mind.”

Look I get it - some don’t care or don’t see it, their choice. Some do, their choice. What’s the point of a forum if not to discuss? It’s agree with us or shut up! Can’t wait for the review... Heljan have brought out a new 25, it’s wonderful. The End!

Quite serious. No different to any other product from a shop if you decide you no longer want it for whatever reason and it’s unused/unopened - unless you know different and model shops have some different set of trading standards?!

Basically yes. I think we’ll disagree on whether they’re negligible or not though! The point I’m trying to make is why would I replace Bachmann models with something that looks less like a Class X (insert class of choice here!) than what I already have? I agree Heljan seem to make a cracking chassis, but the body always seems to let it down with silly (but not unimportant to some) errors. If those errors didn’t matter to sales then you’d expect them to leave them as is, but they do seem to eventually try to correct them as they have with the 33 and 86 for example. So why not put the effort in to get them right at the start? As someone has already mentioned, there will be a percentage who will be happy with something that vaguely resembles what it’s supposed to be and will purchase anyway, but there will be those who will not. Those who don’t care won’t not buy it because it’s correct so you’ll get them regardless! But they’re putting off a potential section of the market by this kind of ‘it’ll do attitude’. What percentage of the market falls into each category I wouldn’t like to guess though. We’re also encouraged to pre order more these days it seems - so it’s even more of a case of trusting what will turn out at the end. But if that’s not to the standard suggested then yes I’ll return them - but more likely I will have seen the finished article and cancelled the order before dispatch. Lima were basic models, but for the time I think they actually captured the look ok on most things! When you think of the technology and research material available now, it makes the Heljan errors all the more annoying.

With what you say in mind it would be interesting to know what are the best channels to communicate these issues to Heljan? For example, are we saying the 47 is at a stage now where they can correct the issues like the depth of grills and the body side windows that appear to be to low? Or is it to late and it’s going to go the same way as the 25 and 45 before it? If it’s the latter I’ll know to cancel my preorders now - which is surely fairer for the retailers concerned who can better judge the number they order beforehand - rather than deliver it and then have me return them all because they’re wrong? I’m not expecting Accurascale levels of communication from them, but it would be nice if sometimes they could give a bit of idea of what they’re looking at changing. I guess it’s just borne out of frustration that these mistakes keep being made and something so obvious that a 30 second google search would show up.

Which catalogue did these get announced in? Wasn’t it around 2013/14?!! Some would say they’ve been ‘paused’ for some time - possibly a record even for Bachmann?! The real ones must have been designed, built and the entire fleet entered service in shorter time! Lol.

That star is purely decoration, still annoying yes, but is correctable unlike the physical shape problems.

Roy is correct, I’m not sure what you’re looking at but if you can’t see the cab door window is significantly lower than the cab window beside it, when they should be level, perhaps a visit to a certain well known tv eyesight specialist is required?! ;-)

It’s not my intention to annoy you but on the flip side I find reviews that gloss over obvious errors to be quite irritating myself. I don’t doubt that underneath it’s a far superior model and I was dearly hoping that they would correct the exterior so that I could buy a few to replace the Bachmann ones I have. But these silly errors just keep coming from Heljan - it’s not like it’s difficult to find reference material these days. A quick google search will show the door window should be the same level as that on the cab.

Looks great! Gets my vote!!

That’s a useful comparison, it clearly shows how they’ve messed up the cab door! The headcode box looks a little odd where it connects with the rain strip as well. Hard to tell with the B&W pic but is the fuzzy wonky paint line around the cab/door prototypical or poorly finished? When another manufacturer is showing off pictures of their latest model, that already looks amazing, and yet they’re still trying to improve it you can’t help but feel Heljan are taking the p a bit.

I have no need for a Deltic whatsoever, wrong era, wrong location - but that does look good, I think I’m going to have to get one anyway!! If you can follow that up with an 08, a 20, a 31, a 47, a 56... oh and a decent HST would be nice too! Don’t mind what order you do them! Lol. ;-)

Thanks The 158 Man, that’s really helpful. I’m modelling mid/late 80s into 1990, so the versions listed on Realtrack site are going to be too late - hopefully Charlie can produce a batch of the original livery as well sometime soon!

I thought that earlier but a quick Flickr search shows they’ve got it correct!

Do we know whether Bachmann has managed to improve the lighting functionality at all on their recent releases? I’m thinking independently controlled markers (where they’ve fitted them!), tail lights etc.

Whilst personally I have no interest in steam and so this isn’t for me - I’m sure it’ll be an absolute cracker for those who are! In terms of copying Dapol, as you say the announcement clearly shows this model has been in development since 2019 - and what decade was the, very likely inferior, Dapol model likely to arrive?! I’m firmly of the belief that no company has the right to exclusivity - but if Accurascale continue with the quality and value of their products as far I’m concerned they can duplicate what they like as I know where my money is heading! Keep em coming I say, whether that be steam diesel or electric!

Is it a standard font or a DB bespoke one do you know? I’ve always thought it looks like the numbers people stick on their wheely bins! So wondered if someone at Toton just pops down to B&Q every time they do a repaint?! Lol.

Sorry to disagree but I’m pretty sure you’ll find that those are the diagram numbers or possibly called circuit working numbers - but they’re not individual set or formation numbers. If, as you say, they were the actual set numbers that would mean the same set allocated to the same journey every day as printed in that book -which is highly unlikely. It may happen on a couple of working but certainly not on a fleet like the HST where sets would often end up at a different location to where they started. As an example LL925 in principle would be worked by a set of LL based stock in the formation shown, then depending on where it ended up the following day it could work LL926 and so on.

Having got the two BR era models before Christmas I finally got around to opening these up this afternoon... they look really good and seem to have been finished to a much higher standard than the original Heljan and Olivias releases. I was a bit intrigued as to why there are replacement bogie side frames included in the box though?!

That does seem a bit like a party political by the Bachmann Party! Whatever the reasons, and I still find them a bit dubious as if you can fit working lights in something as small as N gauge I’m sure there must be a work around, I find that swipe at other manufacturers selling direct to consumers a bit cheap. So is Bachmann saying the justification for inferior models is that they are supporting retailers?! My view would be get the model right and it will sell, and if you can’t leave it to a manufacturer who can - regardless of how they sell it! There are some excellent shops out there and they’ll survive because they’re good at what they do and customers will come back. There are also some horrors that I wouldn’t miss at all. That statement has all the hallmarks of a company that is slightly deluded and thinks that they are a lot better than they actually are, lacking the ability to step outside and look back in to see your own faults - a very dangerous place to be in business.

Would be great if they’ve secretly been working on some new Mk2b/c coaches, although how long were the 2fs from announcement to production?! I guess even if they are working on them secretly, it’s gonna be nearer 2025 before they’d make a 3 monthly announcement!

Whilst I wasn’t going to be buying these now because they are out of my era, having changed from modern to late 80s I probably was considering them when announced! I get how disappointing this is - it was the one thing that really bugged me with my fleet of 66s before I sold them. I can’t see how they can’t get this right, it can’t be a space issue as surely it’s an led and a bit of wire?! Personally if for whatever strange reason they can only do two lights I’d have rather had markers and one headlight, rather than the day/night headlight option, at least then you’d have the prototypical triangle of lights.

Still the side on view I believe. I don’t have too much of an issue with that but unfortunately the images Hornby use in the catalogue and on the boxes, which they seem to do a much better job of in terms of livery accuracy, don’t usually relate very well to what you actually get! Just this morning I got 60015 through the post and whilst the artwork on the box looked pretty good in terms of correct colours, what the actual loco inside the box was painted in god only knows!! At least it now has the logo in the right place I guess! I tend to find Bachmann do a better job in terms of colours (ignoring the TPO stowage vans from a couple of years ago!) and the catalogue images seem to better represent what you’ll get!