railroadbill

Hear hear, best looking one of the lot. How about a compound C1?

Bit confused about tender types. Locomotion release anouncement says "Two tender versions are being produced in the form of an original Great Northern Railway and later LNER types". From what I'm reading up, large Atlantic tenders up to 1907 were class B 3670 gallon types, equally spaced wheels. (So presumably the first of class no. 251 would have had that from new). From 1908 3500 gall tenders were introduced with unequal wheel spacing (6' and 7') which in time were attached to all large Atlantics. My reference says "all....by the early 1920s". So my question is, what tender type should the model of 251 have, and what I can't find a pic of at the moment, what tender type does the full sized one have now?,

So much pressure generated by this excellent thread that I'm afraid I finally cracked, went into Mr Smith's reading library and picked up a copy of Model Rail, started at the back page cos I thought the ad might be towards the back, couldn't find it, worked my way towards the front of the magazine, got to front page, still hadn't found the ad, looked on cover, noticed it wasn't actually the latest issue... A true story.

Actually my grand daughter is gonna just love this (as part of my on-going "trains are cool" campaign.) I'll have to keep it until she's two, mind. Thanks for the heads up (seriously). But no sprung buffers? Must be new Bachmann.

Terrific! Like the buildings, very atmospheric and the trams - and the cyclist really hits the spot.

Absolutely fantastic! That's the second order sorted then..... And congratulations on your first year as well. cheers Bill

I rather like the Belgian livery of the 3 locos repainted above.. oh no not another country to model! I liked the 90s when they first came out on the wcml at a time when I travelled on it quite a bit, and found they've given me a bit of interest in the current railway scene, with freights (that aren't hauled by yet another 66!) and they are still running express trains from Liverpool st to Norwich, so not another emu/dmu. One freightliner runs from Coatbridge nr Glasgow to Felixstowe most days and I've by coincidence seen that train in a number of places hauled by a 90. Could be the longest freight route in the UK? Not sure. Anyway, an interesting loco but really too late a period for the layout and it's stock. (Quite apart from the ohle etc). But I'm now thinking, perhaps my maroon mk1 tso rake could be a charter train, hauled by a 90 (or indeed any "preserved" or current loco) if I don't look too closely at semaphore signals etc. Also perhaps overhead wires could run from a hidden siding (representing another route) to the passing station then an electrically hauled train could have the electric loco taken off and changed for a diesel for the main part of it's run round the rest of the layout. Only need the wires for a short stretch then. Think I should look out for a 90 model, even if it goes on a shelf in a display cabinet.

Been dithering about getting another maroon one but because of previous agro etc etc - an accurate model though. While I was browsing around I noticed that model rail direct has blue ones for £107.50. No connection with them, just something I noticed. Might just be of use to someone who wants a later livery one.

Thanks coach bogie, order just placed. (Be able to line Schools tender now). Actually they were very good with my last order so well pleased with their service.

Having been discussing tender pickups, here's a pic of the underside of a 3F which I built from a kit (MPD) in the early 1980s. Went OTT with the tender, the front axle runs in a brass tube soldered to a bolt which pivots about the nut it's screwed into, the middle axle floats and the rear axle is rigid in pinpoint bearings. Each wheel has a phosphor bronze pick up strip rubbing against it. The loco chassis, which is the kit one, is actually rigid, but again has pickups on all wheels. RG4 motor and just crawls along. Anyway, one can now just buy a Hornby loco with lots of pickups fitted anyway! The other thing is about connections between loco and tender. On this one I used a couple of dress making pop studs from wife's sewing box. Bottom bit aradited to underside of tender with pickup wire soldered on, top bit soldered to loco wire. Loco and tender are permanently coupled but press studs could be parted if you took it apart. Worked ok. Such is the past.....

Here's 34088, a superb model imho. Just that gap between tender and cab which will now be seen to. Does run very well. 34002 on the other hand is from the old model, still on the original chassis. Shows how very far Hornby have gone with the later models.

It's an old hobby indeed... on my V2 (jamison kit, remember those?) I put pickups on the trailing wheels, which ran in a pony truck between fixed frames. the pony truck was sprung to keep the wheels firmly on the track. That seemed to work well with a rigid chassis that did have pickups on all driving wheels (which obviously wern't all in contact with the track at the same time.) Many years later, the V2 still runs very sweetly without hesitation. The thing about tender pickups is that it's easy to ensure the wheels have enough vertical freedom so all wheels are on the track at the same time. (have tried compensated tender as well). It's a belt and braces way of getting more reliable running. Centre drive diesels that pick up on all wheels run more reliably than older models where only one side of each bogie picks up, in my experience. Actually run a couple of old diesels every now and again to check for track problems because they will stop on dirty track etc. before the modern stuff.

Agree about tender pick ups. The rebuilt wc for instance picks up on driving wheels plus tender wheels, thus 6 wheels per side, while the old unrebuilt wc with the xo4 motor only picks up on 4 wheels, thus 2 per side. With kit built tender locos it seemed to me worthwhile to fit tender pickups for smoother running and it's a good example of improved rtr standards that Hornby (and now Bachmann) have gone down this line. Best is the Hornby T9 which also picks up on the bogie wheels, with an 8 wheel tender that's 8 pickups per side.

Thnaks for that, Market65. Looks like a new shorter drawbar will be the answer for these locos.

I've got 2 Hornby rebuilt WC/BB locos (padstow and 213 Squadron) with the "drawbar and wipers" arrangement where the tender coupling pin just drops into the hole in the drawbar. The gap between loco and tender looks a bit too large. On a skinley drawing of the loco the gap is 2.3 mm but the same dimension on the models is 6.8mm. Skinley drawings of other express locos also show a loco/tender gap of 2.3mm, dimension of full size gap is 7" on drawing which is 2.3mm in 4mm to ft scale. What would be the best way to shorten the drawbar - I could cut it and drill another hole for the screw holding it to the loco, or would it be best to make a new drawbar and hard wire the pickups (no-one seem to like the later Hornby plug arrangement!) Or am I just missing a simple way to rearrange the drawbar? My layout has a minimum radius of 30" so should be able to get away with a nearer to scale gap.

Couple of great videos Phil, the whistling whistler sounds just the job actually. And nice to see 345/40 145, hadn't realised it was out on the main line, I'll have to keep a closer eye on these things! (Did look good with the headcodes as well). Thanks.

Thanks for the info on the head code size, Phil. Excellent timing, by coincidence I bought a sound chip today (my first with legomanbiffo sound files) so when it arrives 47 148 will be the next project on the workbench. I'll have a go at the head codes (as per your useful advice in post 582) at the same time. Cheers, Bill

Hi John, By a stroke of luck I've found a picture of Happy Knight in "Colour of steam The LNER Pacifics" which was published by Atlantic in 1985 and written by P N Townend. Anyway, there is a picture of 60533 ex works at Doncaster in May 1956. It's a 3/4 view from the front right of the engine, ie the firemans side where the steam generator would be.. Obviously has the early crest but doesn't have either the steam generator or the electric lamps fitted. While the front buffer beam is partly blocked by another engine, it does look as if there is an aws protecting plate behind the front coupling. Another point is that the double chimney is the early type with a thin beading round the top rather than the "flared" top they had later. Good luck with your modifications. Hope this helps.

Thanks, Robin. Just the info needed, gives a bit more operational flexibility to pull one or two through coaches behind the set or indeed have a 3 coach push pull unit.

Having missed out the first time around, I bought R4534A (unit 616) from Model Railways Direct. Cost £59.75 and delivered by trusty postman the day after I'd ordered it. (No connection with MRD except for being a satisfied customer). Coaches in perfect condition, no fingerprints and they do run very freely. They've been trundling round the layout propelled by an M7 - they do look great. So I've been reading up some books on SR branch lines, loads of photos but a couple of questions have been raised in my mind. They is obviously a lot of knowledge and expertise about push/pull units on this thread, so I'm hoping someone will know the answers. 1. The previous post shows a push-pull set being pushed with another coach towed behind the loco. I've also seen a pic at Bramber station of set 601 in 1960 with a compartment third behind it (making a 3 coach rake) being propelled by an H class. Would the extra coach have needed to be modified to connect the air controls from the loco to the p&p set therefore it was a regular 3 coach set- or was there some way of just coupling an extra coach in if needed? The Driving compartment is definitely leading - white disk and no tail lamp, plus train is on left hand line. Can't scan pic I'm afraid, cos it's in an OPC book. 2. Push pull locos like M7 and H have 2 air pipes for push pull control to the right of the coupling hook (looking at smokebox) mounted below the buffer beam. Since pipes are at both ends of loco, I'm supposing that a loco could be coupled to a push pull unit with the smokebox next to the rear coach, ie pushing running forwards rather than backwards.. Was this a regular occurance? They usually seem to be photographed with bunker to coach, though. ed for typos

Thanks, Phil. I'm hanging on for a blue 40 with discs which ain't one of the first releases so hopefully will be produced soon. Originally thought I wouldn't have a sound one because it would sound too similar to the 37 I've sound chipped but having heard the Bachmann Mauritania running and now your video one, those whistling turbo chargers are very distinctive and I'm hooked. Your Howes sounds are good... cheers Bill

Really good whistling sound - what is the sound chip you've used in the 40? And as has been said before, great video.

Excellent! Thanks for that, couldn't get my head around the apparent difference in power between the B-Gs and 8Fs - but getting the train started isn't the only factor. Steam locos always seem difficult to compare objectively - claims by different railways that they had "Britain's most powerful loco" based purely on tractive effort were common but was a King really better than an A3 on that basis? Better not go there. As you say, brake power must have been really significant especially for unfitted freights, presumably that requirement varied as well in hilly country. Read of locos such as WD 2-8-0s that were not suitable for lines like S&D with heavy gradients although ran very well in flatter country (and may have gone up hill ok although not safely down.) This is a very interesting subject, so thanks again.

Long trains in the garden must have been good. Took me years until I moved to a house that had a usable loft space for a layout. (and understanding swmbo). So some of the stock I bought/built/modified etc over the years has had a big gap between being displayed or stored and now having somewhere to run. Hence some locos like the 4Fs have never had much running, and more recent and technically advance stuff gets run first. However, I'm now finding that some earlier locos aren't that bad with a little tlc and enough running to settle down. Depends whether it looks and runs the part or not. But the Airfix tender drives do have rubber tyres, (which I don't normally like since it makes the tender wheels look weird) ) which no doubt accounts for their pulling ability. Point of this though is that back in 1980 we wouldn't have expected a high quality model like the Garratt (or baby deltic or dukedog etc etc) to be commercially available so I guess we're spoilt by the current standard, really. Mind you, Robmcg did mention the Kitmaster kit which must go back to the 60s but motorising it must have been a pain. Did anyone manage it, I wonder?

Thanks Ian. Steve's suggestion was great fun, just had to be done! It started out rather tongue in cheek but I found that 2 older locos that I'd put to one side actually ran much better than I thought they would, compared to the much newer stock I've acquired. So useful for me. (Not that I'd actually run 30 coach trains of course). Anyway I'd better not hi-jack the B-G thread but following 34theletterbetweenb&d's comments on the full size locos, and how they were used has been very interesting. ps the Airfix tender drive was apparently designed for a 450 hour life. Once they are run in, seem to settle down well. pps Hornby Dublo once did a demo where a loco (think it was a Castle) pulled a railed trolley (on a wide track) behind it with a young lad sitting on it.