railroadbill

Help needed. I've been looking at various references regarding 251 . One reference says that when withdrawn as 2800 in July 1947 loco had piston valve cylinders (which must have been replacements at some time) and 32 element superheater. When restored "to GNR condition" a boiler from 3278 and slide valve cylinders from 2868 were fitted. The boiler had the superheater elements removed, which caused poor steaming when 251 was run again with 990 on the "Plant Centenarian" excursion in 1953 and other specials in 1954. Another source says that there were still 9 locos with slide valves in 1945. My query is, was there any external difference between slide valve/piston valve engines (which I can't make out) but primarily between superheated boilers and the original saturated type? So does 251 as preserved now look exactly the same externally as it did when first built? If so, that's fine but otherwise if there are differences, which era does the model represent?

1. Fund raising for NRM - very good. 2. Had some Skinley drawings for loco many years ago but never got anywhere with building model. Now I'm going to have one. 3. It won't be staying in the box either.

There are people on this forum who have been in the game as it were for many years, in fact I was reading articles and books some were writing about model and prototype railways back in the 1970s and 80s. There's therefore a wealth of knowledge going here about this particular loco which I feel can be trusted, and what's been said about the engineering samples has been very positive. In fact the samples have been photographed standing on the actual loco itself - very easy to compare the details! So it looks like an absolutely spot on model, from what we've been shown. And presumably the requirements of the NRM, a first class museum, will have ensured that. So plenty of reasons to believe this will be an excellent model. I don't agree that there has been any "hard sell " about this, the pre announcement "froth" thread was very entertaining and had the actual announcement been of something else I wasn't interested in buying then that would have been that but as it was, it was right on the money!

That's a shame, mainley trains have been a very useful supplier since their Chandlers Ford days. Still retirement catches up with us all, so good luck to Dave.

The more posts on here from people who know about the model's development, the better it sounds mechanically. Great stuff.

That seems a good decision on all sides then and I would expect orders will flow because of it. . Think it's an ok price for what appears to be an excellent model of a historically important locomotive commissioned by a museum. (Well I've ordered a 251 anyway).

Actually thought it was going to be more expensive considering how Bachmann prices have gone up. My only other Atlantic is a Heljan litra P, (preserved one is in the Odense museum in Denmark). It's the best running commercial steam loco I've got imho. Cost about £120 in 2000, not on Heljan's web site at moment but their nearest loco, a litra E pacific, is 3195 dk which is £339 sterling so £175 isn't so bad by comparison. (Mind you if the pound keeps on getting stronger...)

Now answered my own query by finding 1) a pic of 251 with original tender in 1903 2) a pic of 251 numbered 2800 in wartime (ww2) black with later tender. But still can't find a side on pic of 251 as of now with it's tender. This model is going to look sooooo good gliding into the platform.........

Ok, been and gorn and done it. Order placed. Oddly enough, didn't think I'd be buying anything today, but they've really hit the spot with this one.

Hear hear, best looking one of the lot. How about a compound C1?

Bit confused about tender types. Locomotion release anouncement says "Two tender versions are being produced in the form of an original Great Northern Railway and later LNER types". From what I'm reading up, large Atlantic tenders up to 1907 were class B 3670 gallon types, equally spaced wheels. (So presumably the first of class no. 251 would have had that from new). From 1908 3500 gall tenders were introduced with unequal wheel spacing (6' and 7') which in time were attached to all large Atlantics. My reference says "all....by the early 1920s". So my question is, what tender type should the model of 251 have, and what I can't find a pic of at the moment, what tender type does the full sized one have now?,

So much pressure generated by this excellent thread that I'm afraid I finally cracked, went into Mr Smith's reading library and picked up a copy of Model Rail, started at the back page cos I thought the ad might be towards the back, couldn't find it, worked my way towards the front of the magazine, got to front page, still hadn't found the ad, looked on cover, noticed it wasn't actually the latest issue... A true story.

Actually my grand daughter is gonna just love this (as part of my on-going "trains are cool" campaign.) I'll have to keep it until she's two, mind. Thanks for the heads up (seriously). But no sprung buffers? Must be new Bachmann.

Terrific! Like the buildings, very atmospheric and the trams - and the cyclist really hits the spot.

Absolutely fantastic! That's the second order sorted then..... And congratulations on your first year as well. cheers Bill

I rather like the Belgian livery of the 3 locos repainted above.. oh no not another country to model! I liked the 90s when they first came out on the wcml at a time when I travelled on it quite a bit, and found they've given me a bit of interest in the current railway scene, with freights (that aren't hauled by yet another 66!) and they are still running express trains from Liverpool st to Norwich, so not another emu/dmu. One freightliner runs from Coatbridge nr Glasgow to Felixstowe most days and I've by coincidence seen that train in a number of places hauled by a 90. Could be the longest freight route in the UK? Not sure. Anyway, an interesting loco but really too late a period for the layout and it's stock. (Quite apart from the ohle etc). But I'm now thinking, perhaps my maroon mk1 tso rake could be a charter train, hauled by a 90 (or indeed any "preserved" or current loco) if I don't look too closely at semaphore signals etc. Also perhaps overhead wires could run from a hidden siding (representing another route) to the passing station then an electrically hauled train could have the electric loco taken off and changed for a diesel for the main part of it's run round the rest of the layout. Only need the wires for a short stretch then. Think I should look out for a 90 model, even if it goes on a shelf in a display cabinet.

Been dithering about getting another maroon one but because of previous agro etc etc - an accurate model though. While I was browsing around I noticed that model rail direct has blue ones for £107.50. No connection with them, just something I noticed. Might just be of use to someone who wants a later livery one.

Thanks coach bogie, order just placed. (Be able to line Schools tender now). Actually they were very good with my last order so well pleased with their service.

Having been discussing tender pickups, here's a pic of the underside of a 3F which I built from a kit (MPD) in the early 1980s. Went OTT with the tender, the front axle runs in a brass tube soldered to a bolt which pivots about the nut it's screwed into, the middle axle floats and the rear axle is rigid in pinpoint bearings. Each wheel has a phosphor bronze pick up strip rubbing against it. The loco chassis, which is the kit one, is actually rigid, but again has pickups on all wheels. RG4 motor and just crawls along. Anyway, one can now just buy a Hornby loco with lots of pickups fitted anyway! The other thing is about connections between loco and tender. On this one I used a couple of dress making pop studs from wife's sewing box. Bottom bit aradited to underside of tender with pickup wire soldered on, top bit soldered to loco wire. Loco and tender are permanently coupled but press studs could be parted if you took it apart. Worked ok. Such is the past.....

Here's 34088, a superb model imho. Just that gap between tender and cab which will now be seen to. Does run very well. 34002 on the other hand is from the old model, still on the original chassis. Shows how very far Hornby have gone with the later models.

It's an old hobby indeed... on my V2 (jamison kit, remember those?) I put pickups on the trailing wheels, which ran in a pony truck between fixed frames. the pony truck was sprung to keep the wheels firmly on the track. That seemed to work well with a rigid chassis that did have pickups on all driving wheels (which obviously wern't all in contact with the track at the same time.) Many years later, the V2 still runs very sweetly without hesitation. The thing about tender pickups is that it's easy to ensure the wheels have enough vertical freedom so all wheels are on the track at the same time. (have tried compensated tender as well). It's a belt and braces way of getting more reliable running. Centre drive diesels that pick up on all wheels run more reliably than older models where only one side of each bogie picks up, in my experience. Actually run a couple of old diesels every now and again to check for track problems because they will stop on dirty track etc. before the modern stuff.

Agree about tender pick ups. The rebuilt wc for instance picks up on driving wheels plus tender wheels, thus 6 wheels per side, while the old unrebuilt wc with the xo4 motor only picks up on 4 wheels, thus 2 per side. With kit built tender locos it seemed to me worthwhile to fit tender pickups for smoother running and it's a good example of improved rtr standards that Hornby (and now Bachmann) have gone down this line. Best is the Hornby T9 which also picks up on the bogie wheels, with an 8 wheel tender that's 8 pickups per side.

Thnaks for that, Market65. Looks like a new shorter drawbar will be the answer for these locos.

I've got 2 Hornby rebuilt WC/BB locos (padstow and 213 Squadron) with the "drawbar and wipers" arrangement where the tender coupling pin just drops into the hole in the drawbar. The gap between loco and tender looks a bit too large. On a skinley drawing of the loco the gap is 2.3 mm but the same dimension on the models is 6.8mm. Skinley drawings of other express locos also show a loco/tender gap of 2.3mm, dimension of full size gap is 7" on drawing which is 2.3mm in 4mm to ft scale. What would be the best way to shorten the drawbar - I could cut it and drill another hole for the screw holding it to the loco, or would it be best to make a new drawbar and hard wire the pickups (no-one seem to like the later Hornby plug arrangement!) Or am I just missing a simple way to rearrange the drawbar? My layout has a minimum radius of 30" so should be able to get away with a nearer to scale gap.

For a very short line.