Jaggzuk

My converted attic would allow a 12'x13' foot around the edge layout which I had all planned out - this was an early version http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73339-scarm-layout-design-software-with-3d-all-users-topic/?p=1080607.  But an 8x4 for the boys sort of jumped the que the plan = http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/104302-a-new-family-8x4-layout/.  The build = http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106602-family-8x4-oo-layout-trains-running-again/page-1

I agree with the comments above, kids are very adapt with their imagination, for example our station building has platform numbers on it (1 & 2) and one boy likes Plat 1 and the other likes Plat 2.  So when there is a train occupying one platform, the whole building gets lifted up and turned around so that the empty line is always Plat 1!!  Done ask me why :-0  I am just the adult here ha ha.

What has always been key is ability to run trains, that's is what they love to do, their imagination fills all the scenic gaps.  They do not know it is wrong to run x coach with loco y.  I have enjoyed more watching their role playing games; the most annoying one is that the drivers are always stopping to have tea breaks and the diesels keep running out of coal!!  But I have learnt to "let go", just watch The Lego Movie and the ending to understand the massive difference between kids play and Daddies play.  I now really enjoy just watching trains rushing around and any loco with any truck and any coach is OK.

To be honest I now really enjoy watching the Hornby mail train rushing round the layout picking up and dropping off mail bags, it is mesmerizing and such fun.

Our other fun game is driving trains to coloured signals.  Well we do not have any signals yet, but lots of red, orange and green matchbox cars.  These get place and swapped around the layout to help the boys drive to signal control .  Even more fun with them sat under the layout and a smartphone using our WIFI TrainCam pretending to be a driver!

I ramble too much, but my point is build something to play on and have fun.  But planning is good fun too.

For me I would see what a round the wall layout would give you and see how quick you can build the baseboards and track.  Otherwise start a bit smaller as you have said and then adapt into a big round layout.

Firstly welcome to RMWeb and secondly welcome to the world of Daddies building for the kids.  Its is a very enjoyable world to be in!!

A few Qs first.  What side of room are you building this in and was is the max size of baseboard you can achieve?  Hoe many sides of the layout can you access, flip that to which areas can you not reach!  And lastly, have you built a layout before or is this all new to you.

Bases on a) may experience and b) following a few other Daddies layout builds on here I have the following comments/observations.

1) Play factor - fast trains, racing trains, shunting (when a bit older)  Steam and diesel (especial if he sees any real trains) and train formation - long trains of trucks or coaches.

2) Irrespective of it being DCC, you will want two controllers, trust me!  I have NCE Power Cab and a slave unit and will soon get a third slave unit as with two boys an me sharing a controller is a bit of a hassle.

3) Scenic perfection vs getting it finished .  I suffer from the first ;-)

4) It is a great hobby for providing learning opportunists for our kids; model making, simple electronics, internet research, model shows, photograph and videoing.  Some when he is a bit older.  My 7 year old love videoing trains running on the layout.

5) Railroad vs fine details rolling stock.  We have a hard floor, so cheaper locos etc with less fine detail are a little more robust.

6) Kids will love, lights, sound, truck loading and role playing.

7) Surprisingly my boys grasped the DCC throttle very easily at about 3 yeas old we have far less crashes than DC operation.  They just get it, like TV remotes, smart phones and tablets, then can pick it up very easily.  The level of fine control they now have is amazing the eldest now shunts using both Kadee coupling and even trucks with 3 links chain coupling!!

On the plan my thoughts are:

A. Hidden storage sidings as your stock box will grow!!

B. Reverse loop, can be solved by DCC, but do you need it?

C. Double track is good element.

D. Make sure you can have at least two trains running all the time time

E. Sidings are a must

F. Engine shed is another must (IMO)

G. Make sure you can easily reach all track/ scenic areas  Uncoupling for short arms is a hard.  Building the layout always having to reach will be tiresome.

H. Consider a flyover, fun to watch

I.Keep the tunnels, but make sure you can get to the track.

J. Plan your scenery.

L. Gradients no more than 3%

M. Consider how to control the layout, points and signals.  I use manual point levers and use the DCC throttle for just controlling trains, it works for the boys.

Really looking forward to watcing this one grow, keep us updated and photos too :-)

All the best Paul

Nice additions.  Lots of added play value there.

Kids off school, something to do with some cold white stuff ;-0  So it gave us time to have a guest streamlined A4 visit Foxwood Park from a school friend.  A very nice line up on Platform 1 and 2 just before guest 60022 in immaculately turned out BR Green led the way with a nice rake of Gresley teak coaches in Crimson and Cream.  This was followed by 4468 taking a mixed rake of ex virgin mark 3s and Maroon Mk1s.

Obviously this line up never happen in real life, I wonder why ;-)

I really liked the level of detail on the Hornby's 60022 which was very noticeable against our 4468 railroad version.  The corridor coal tender and the cab detail was great.  A very nice model indeed, not going too green here!

The boys had a great time racing the 2 A4s, which I have to say look great together.  Wallet twitching!!!

The A4 line-up on platform 1 and 2, ready for departure.

60022 takes the branch line to go over Pendip East Junction flyover, with 4468 ready for the main line into Stag Tunnel passing under Fox Hill Farm.

That looks fantastic.  But I do think PWay might need to consider there drainage regime here ;-)  A very wet an boggy cess, goodness knows what it is like in the tunnel!!

Can I ask how you did it.  The order in which you added the resin and the scenic elements .  Did you paint the water bed first?  What are the reeds made from.

Very impressed really like the look of this corner on the layout.

Started the task of fixing all the track in the fiddle yard, installing point motors and creating baseboard joints in the track. 

Never done one of these before, so we shall see how well if stand up to abuse.  This one is for the hinged lifting section that will allow me to walk in to the fiddle yard pit (the boys just scoot under the baseboard).

I shall be creating a second control panel for the fiddle yard pit which will allow control of all the fiddle yard points as key main line points on the scenic layout.  This panel will be push button rather then Peco levers, just to create a bit of variety and give the boys some different forms of operation.  I will be double wiring all the duel controlled points so that they can be operated from either control panel.  This is where the under baseboard connector blocks I used at the location of each point will be really useful.

Long way to go and lots of soldering to do, especially as I intend to have LEDs on the control panel schematic track plan to indicate the route setting for each point.

Also got myself on of these to help with airbrush work - £52 off ebay.  Looks very good, well designed and hopefully a good investment.  All packs away into itself (excluding extractor hose) to create a neat carry box.

Cheers for that Trip, I will make some enquires.  Not start another debate, but for my Boys locos I might consider the TTS sound range as they are such a good price at Hattons.

Hmm not sure what to think now as I bought a multi five pack from Hattons, so they will all be the new type.  

So did DCC Concepts offer any advice on weather this can be CVed on and off?  What also concerns me is that it was happen on plain line and not just on places like dead frogs where you might expect power loss.

The bad design of this feature is that when it stops the loco dead and then starts up again I have been finding that the conservation of momentum rule results in derailed rakes of coaches or wagons.

I have started to wonder if it can be solved using some capacitors to create stay alive setup.  But not sure if you can do this with these decoders. 

Otherwise I may try sending them back to Hattons and got for another make.  I do not like the feature, to me too it is a fault.

Excellent vid, great to see trains running, must fee good.

Kids can such levelers! On opening his surprise Christmas present this year (a red DB Class 66) my youngest (4 yo) said "Why do I want this?".  Oh well got I that one wrong!!  After a bit of probing it turned out all he actually wanted was real smoke in his Railroad Flying Scotsman, but he has not said any of this prior to the big day.  Could have saved myself £50 getting a smoke unit vs the Class 66! Anyway, he has now come round to the idea and likes his 66 as he can race his brother's GBRF 66.

It is interesting on the steam vs diesel attraction.  My boys are much more keen to play with all our steam locos rather than diesel, such as the Mallard, Flying Scotsman , SR 0-4-0, Standard 4MT Tank etc.  And so I think a GWR loco is definitely on the cards for the next purchase, especially as we do not yet have anything from  the region.

Cheers Guys, some informative answers there.  I will check that the Cap has been removed John, I normally do, but as it was DCC ready I might have forgotten.

Trip, your reply sound absolutely spot on to what I have been experiencing of the stop star issue.  The Mallard once stopped will then stat up again with moment style speed increase.  The chip was a new one for Hattons in their new style of packaging so may well be a newer version of the chip,  My question here is then, is this a fault or a feature?  If a feature can it be turned off and on?  Or is this just the effect on this particular Loco?

I am not sure on the intermittent power delivery aspect, as it happen on plain straight track, when I would expect very good pick up on more than one set of wheels.

Great progress and must be great now when playing trains seeing them run through the landscape.

A bit of an odd one this.  One of my boy’s Christmas presents was a “like new” second hand Hornby Railroad Mallard, which I got from Hattons.  Without a DCC decoder it ran fine on DC.  Most of our locos are equipped with the bargain Hattons DCR-8PIN decoders, as it is a balance between decoder cost and what do I really need for a 8x4 DCC play layout. I have never had any issue with any I have so far bought (15+), they all work fine.

I plugged a new decoders in to the Mallard and it ran OK.  But then I began to realise that at slow speed it was not so good.  It would randomly stop and then do a slow start without any intervention.  Initially I thought it was the loco pick-up contacts. So I cleaned the track, check the loco and tender pickups.  Still no joy.  It ran at speed OK and anything was fine over about step 8.

I then thought it was shorting out, but the NCE controller did not show that this was the case.  But I still checked the sprung pickups between the tender and the loco coupling, as I had read this can be a problem.  I also stripped of the blacking from the metal coupling pin contact on the tender.  But still the same issue.

The poor running was starting to be noticed during play time too and the Mallard kept being put in the engine shed and not being played with, which was disappointing.

I was left with the concept that I had a doggy decoder.  So one final check was to try another make of decoder.  I had one which I had taken out of a Bachmann Class 108 (TCS I think) and suddenly everything is fine, the loco runs great at slow speed and no more stop starts! I then put Hattons chip into a Bachmann Class 25 and oddly the stop start problem did not occur?  So I am not sure what the issue was with the Mallard and the Hatton decoder.

Any ideas, as I am now unsure if it is a doggy chip or if there is some other odd interaction between the type of decoder and the Hornby Mallard.

I'm sure I've seen those before, they formed part of the planning application in the public domain.

Here are the links to the planning drawing files from Network Rail's own website,  link at the bottom of page: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/lne-and-em/east-coast-mainline-route-upgrade/werrington-grade-separation/

The link will take you to here and in Section NR11 you can find all the detailed "planning" drawings

http://archive.nr.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?root=&dir=%5cImprovements%5cWerrington%20Grade%20Separation%20application%20documents

These are Outline Design drawings and certainly not "Fit for Construction" drawings.  So they may well be subject to change at Detailed Design stage.

In Network Rail Standard NR/L2/INI/EDT/CP0091 - Specification for Computer Aided Design the revision status are as follows:

Miniature Dwarf Shetlands?  They are tiny.

Hi

I like the electrics under you layout and the use of the 21 pin connectors, caught my eye as they would solve a problem on my layout.  Can I ask where you got your from?  I have searched the web and there appears to be very little UK suppliers.  Have you gone for a male to female lead as well?

Thanks

Paul

Just made up one of the Wills ones and it is 22.5mm so that is 5 foot 8 inch.  So yes a bit short and they look a bit too wide in proportion.  But hay once weathered and on the layout I doubt it will notice!!

Looking forward to the stable and ponys.

That grass looks much better.  Glad the show went down well.

Which make of relay box did you order.  May be a bit late, but the Bachmann ones are the too small. I got some and then took them back.  seehttp://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/108724-Bachmann-44-560-line-side-cabinets/

This is really coming on.  The track ballast, grass and fence line look great, somehow even thou the curves are tight it still look OK

Only seams yesterday that you were ripping bits out and now look at it.

I used RailMatch spray cans for track dirt initially (Railmatch Paint Sleeper Grime 1406 or Frame Dirt 1402 in 150ml aerosol).  Also any spray can colour that looks like dirty brown will do.  As you cannot vary the intensity of the spray can easily, I then decided to go for an airbrush kit.  Which was a big yet fantastic step forward for me.

I went for the £95 one from here http://www.airbrushheaven.co.uk/categories/?main_cat_id=27  Currently they all look out of sock bar one.  This appeared to be a bit of a common issue for this type of product/kit as they come from China and deliveries can be a bit sporadic.  But what I found was when I call the very helpful chap at Airbrush Heaven was that it was one of the small items from the kit that was actually not available but the airbrushes and compressor itself was in stock.  So I got the kit and then the missing item was sent later on.

Edit: You need to web search for  "AS-186 compressor" and then look for the ones that come as a kits.  Mine came with two air bushes and lots of pots and bits.

Also see a thread on this topic.  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107480-so-i-bought-a-cheap-airbrush-kit/

I am so glad I got one cos they are very useful in modeling.

Hope this helps.

Does not look that bad.  Just touch up the edge nearest the base board edge.  The rest you can mask with weathering.  Really look great with the platform set in place, no gap

Have you considered wreathing your track first?  That way you can get get rid of the plastic sleeper shine and the shiny nickle silver rails, without necessarily having to heavily weather the ballast .

I like the platforms and the coper edges, Must find my copes stickers as my platform currently looks naked!

Wow. putting me to shame with your progress!!!  The landscape is looking so much more homogenised now, it is amazing the improvement grass cover does over scenic formation, plaster baseboard etc . 

Are those rocks real, they look very good?

Mmm I too am going to have to find another way to do the mimic panel now that SCARM is limited without a license ( I would pay if I was doing another layout, but not now as I am at the end of the design process).  Might look at the real thing (mosaic mimic panels) and try something like that in Powerpoint or similar

I was am planning to use LEDs, but the amount of soldering does put me off a bit, but the look would be great and helpful to the boys to see which way each point has been set.  I see you have used toggle switches, how do these work are they momentary type?  Can remember what point motors you are using.

Kytes lights looks a very interesting supplier, might be tempted.

Nice!!.  What make are the platform lights?