Jaggzuk

That's lovely looking plan there Harlequin, do you take commissions? ;-). I think the fact that you have managed to get 3 sidings in on the left will give a lot more shunting flexibility and puzzle opportunity. I particularly like the siding running alongside the main branch line towards the viaducts, that will look nice the the buffer stop at the top of an embankment. Seeing the plan in graphical form like this really helps to see that less is more. I think Rich you have got a very nice layout plan here both scenically and operationally and I am really quite excited to see how this ends up in built form. So very Devon esque!!

Valid point Chris, the tunnel currently is just a triangle of MDF which is easily lifted off and I will keep it that way when it has the town scene on it. Space will be a bit cramped on the fiddle side but not too bad. And rightly so on the Mini front. Mistreat a mini and they will bite you back. Our Mini Neon always draws blood from me when I used to open "her" bonnet. But she had been garaged for 9 odd years now and looks a bit sorry for herself! Mind you my youngest at 4 has declared he wants a green Landie for his first car!

Not trying to find and excuse to put off scenics, but I am considering some civil engineering during the 2 week Christmas Blockage. The layout was always designed to be extended into a fiddle yard, with the off board spurs already being located inside the two tunnels. But time has now come I think to seriously consider this development. There are three motivations for this, We have so much stock now that the main 8x4 board keeps getting clogged up as the boys play, getting everything out of its boxes. This detracts for the scenic aspect and also stuff is getting damage being in and out of storage boxes so much. we need more on baseboard storage for long train formations. Whilst I am very happy with the layout, there is a limitation as to where trains can pass each other. Currently only in the station with one train on the outer loop and the other on the flyover loop. I have always wanted a little more double track passing opportunity. So implementing the fiddle yard offers an opportunity to tweak the 8x4. By adding about 2 inches to the right hand side (with the station at the bottom of the plan) I can add another outer curve to create a 1/4 turn of double track going into the tunnel. This in effect creates a new outer loop which goes into the fiddle yard. With this the running opportunity would now be: 1 train on the new outer loop running clockwise passing through a through road in the fiddle yard, with a second train running anti-clockwise. The second train would use the double loop on the main board from the middle track at the station going out to the right hand tunnel, passing under the flyover to then go through the station on the inner track before going back out over then flyover and back to the station. The new track on the 8x4 is purple, the red box will be some form of lift/swing section and the hole in the middle is 2 foot wide operators well for the fiddle yard. The fiddle yard will be non scenic as it is under the slope the roof so has little head room. The sidings in the fiddle yard are faced so they can feed goods traffic to either yard.

Hi Rich Just come across you layout planning. I sounds like you have has a bumpy time and sympathies to you. But as you now say, you want to get on with it. If I can add a few obs from personal experience and perhaps ask a few questions? Firstly who is the layout for, you or your son, or both? This is key as to what you end up building and are happy with. I had planned a big layout with nice scenic sections and gentle (ish curves), but then came my 1st boy and then a second (7 & 4). That layout is still a plan and will happen one day, but I needed to build a more achievable "play" layout for the boys and I am so glad I have. OK is it a tail chaser 8x4 and totally unrealistic track plan, but the fun that is had far surpasses the r2 - r4 curves and funny scenic sections. BUT the layout has a lot of play factor, even for me as I have quite complicated shunting puzzle scope with it. With two boys, I needed 2 train running capability, otherwise I will have been a referee signalman all the time!! Second, can you build all the track in a very short space of time, but perhaps if getting the scenics done takes a long time? Kids have a short patience level, they just want to run trains, we on the other hand want a nice layout with perfect scenery that we can disappear mentally into. BUT, kids use their imagination to play and so a finished layout does not matter to them (much). Oh yes young kids have no real concepts of era or region , they just see, steam, diesel goods or passenger and then they like certain colours. So to the plans, I liked the plans back in post 24, as these had more shunting options. I also liked the dairy line. But the off scenic part on the left to me looked a bit of a waste of space just being single track, so the bridge element in post 25 looks nice. Have you considered having a double track section clockwise into the fiddle yard, over the door lift section? I only suggest this as then you could then run longer trains (my boys love that) yet still pass each other at the station. Being limited to 1+4 and only passing at the station might in the end feel too limiting "play" wise? I am assuming all your track is level, so that will speed up the build. My final suggestion and as you have yet mention control, go for DCC, you will never look back. Also get two controllers, removes the sharing issue!! And reduces the risk of head ons. I have an NCE Powercab with a 2nd Engineer Cab throttle, the master unit can override the cab throttle, most useful. Anyway, keep the faith and keep sharing your ideas, it all looks good and the build will be fun.

News travels fast... what a fantastic 1st video, full of great tips and really nicely edited. That is a serious industrial grade baseboard build. The trouble is I now what the "Box Set" to watch in one go, can't wait till the next episode :-)

Its a woodland walk with the kids then this weekend to collect some twigs :-). I had been recommended to tried Buddleia as it is nice and thin but the middle was too pithy and not woody throughout.

Not sure how I manage to miss this layout being built Al, I was waiting for an update on Grindleford and then bummed into this. Nice work, as always!!

Hi Mike Love the S&T/civils work, the cabinets and cable troughing look great. I am at the stage where I need to add my cable trough. I have resorted to home made versions (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106602-family-8x4-oo-layout-kadee-coupling-effort/?p=2898300) which I am happy with, but I wand to improve the concrete effect which is so hard to replicate. Can you offer any advice on how you paint/weather yours? Also, is your trouging made or bought? Regards Paul

Hi Kevin A fantastic layout, full of atmosphere and lovely detail. I really like the variety of train loads and just how evocative of the era they are. I was interested to see the timber wagons in post #1229, can I ask what you have used to create the logs? I assume it is a real life plant? Also, what did you use to create the red strapping? Cheera Paul

Have been getting some pressure of late to finish the scenic aspects of the layout, ha ha, rather than spending so much time fiddling about with couplings and other things of that nature. So I have reacquainted myself with why I sort of stopped progressing with ballasting. I am happy with how I am going to do the ballasting, materials, how to pre weather colour and how to fix. I am also happy with how I am going to create my wild grass lineside areas; using hanging basket liner and static grass. However, it is the bit in between these two areas that stopped me in my track, cable trough. My job takes me out working on the railway sometimes, so I get to see how the “real” railway looks at close hand. One thing I have noticed quite often is that cable troughing can be a very distinctive divider between the ballast and the grass areas. As can be seen in these photos, the cable trough is set within the ballast shoulder and clearly separates the grass lineside area. Weathering needs to be a very mottled effect to represent aged concrete. In modelling terms this means that the cable trough has to be glued in place first, before the ballasting operation. This therefore means that both the routing and size of troughing need to be decided before any ballast or grass is laid. So I am on with this plan now. I also recently bought some readymade cable troughing samples from two well know manufactures (Wills and 10 Commandments) prior to then buying in bulk. However, I was rather disappointed with the offerings, as they just do not look right when placed next to track. First the 10 Commandments kit. It looked a good kit on-line with Ts and corner pieces and the kit offered 4 feet of toughing. But the real life dimensions are just not right. First the lid representations are only 600 long (in real life they are 1000m) and the width equates to only 205mm, which is between a C.1.6 and a C.1.7 (typical real life size I have come across are C.1.7 or C.1.9). The nice aspect of this kit however, is that the plastic is quite bendable, so easy to bend the round track radii. Next was the Wills kit. Again this looked good with plug in type connections and comes with nice T pieces. The lids are spot on 1000mm long but they have a big un-prototypical overhanging lids making them 380mm wide. The narrower trough part is still 300mm wide, so this is a well over sized for even a C.1.10, which is too big for countryside troughing. The plastic is quiet rigid and so very difficult to bend. So neither of these met with my approval, am I being too picky? So I have resorted to a DIY version using Plastruct sections. The best I could get was some 2.5x3.2 solid and 2.3x3.2 channel. This is a good represents of a C.1.8, which is a happy medium. My DIY version top, 10 Commandants middle and Wills bottom I make the lids by pushing a craft knife in to the plastic and then sanding off the ridges. I used Vallejo ModelAir paints. The base colour was hand brushed on and the weathering dry brushed or finger rubbed in. The lid joints were picked out in black and rubbed in by brush. Finished samples on my test track board My DIY version top, 10 Commandants middle and Wills bottom I used the 3 channel sections (two inverted either side) to represent a trough with either a missing or displaced lid and added some thin black wire for cables. The underside view showing how the black wire is fixed into the inverted sections.

Just picked up a box for a IDA pair at Hartlepool MR Ex for £32 brand new, so quite chuffed with that. The trade stand a quiet a few at both £35 and £32, not sure why the difference in price of 3 quid. A nice model. This is quite simple design of wagon when compared to other container wagons. I still can't decide which version and which manufacture I prefer for container wagons (I am not fussed by era or operator), I just want some long container trains on my layout. My only obs on the one I have is the tiny wheels do not appear to run totally true. Either the axle is not quite central in the wheel or the tyres are not central/perfectly round in relation to the axle. The bogie bobbles up and down very slightly and I guess this is all accentuated by the tiny circumference of the wheels. However, on test running there is no apparent wobble to the wagon as a whole.

Great show, thanks. Good mix of layouts and trade stands, my two boys had a great time and did I. Some top class layouts and a broad mix of scales form Z to O. Came home inspired as usual with this show and not stressed out like some over crowded shows. Must have been free car parking last year, as now it cost £1:50, but with the economical food prices I guess it was OK. Shall look forward to next year.

Nice to have you back. Life always throws curves balls and sometime we need a break, but the lane looks great. I really like the diagonal car parking bays in the grass and the rail made crash barrier. I was having a look back at your photos and noted your rather good looking cable troughs, are these bought versions or home made?

I have been having a trail play with Keen Close Coupling System for a rake of 4 Bachmann/Mainline Collett coaches. I have had these a long time but had removed the tension hook couplings, so I need to add some new couplings to get them running again. Details of the installation can be found here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/45608-self-centering-keen-systems-close-coupling-units/?p=2890913 Close coupled after Keen kit installation The coupling gap opens up on an R2 curve. I like these couplings and will add them to other rakes of old tension hook coupled coaches.

Now thats what I call "lumpy coal". The large bits must be knocking on 25kg each!

Here's an interesting configuration I came across on my railway work travels. I noted there was a pair of catch points which were set within a turnout. These are for at set of carriage siding roads at Southport station triangle. The line to the right is the Up and Down Southport Merseyrail line. My guess is that that due to the very limited space and the need for multiple sets of turnouts required from the main line leading to the pair of twin road sidings on both sides of the triangle, that there was no space left for a separate catch point in plain line.. Google aerial view https://goo.gl/maps/D18PSwtoLsz [Edit - Map link updated, hopefully]

Ah the classic layout creep! ;-) But with a nice large railway room like you have, why not. I totally agree with you on the lack of storage on the 8x4/10x4 we have. I always had the plan to also add a fiddle yard one day which is why there are hidden points in the tunnels on my layout. Even the simple yard you have will offer considerable operational flexibility so a good addition.

With the four sets of magnets on the running lines within the station area, I have to remember not to stop a freight train such that I accidentally uncoupled it into two parts. They are required there for shunting operations and loco run rounds. I would certainly plan a layout differently next time to allow for Kadee operation and wagon length and clearances. As it is, what I have works and shunting is so much more fun now and enjoyable.

If it is three trucks, yes I can Zomboid, just. But as seen in the photo with 2 trucks and the guards van, no I can't as the guards van is longer than the trucks. So I will have to remember that when shunting about. Might see what can be done at the buffer end to get another 1/2 inch of track. Obviously when I was planning the layout I did not take in to account Kadee as a coupling operation. So that is one for the memory bank.

I am sure this is not an original idea as I probably picked it up somewhere a long time ago and it just sat there in the back of my mind, but I will share it anyway. I was needing to removed injection moulding lines on some old truck buffers, but using needle files would scratching them too much, so I decided to use a small bit of wet & dry paper. But it was just a but fiddly to use. Then the "idea" of sticking the paper to something stiffer like a bit of plastic or wood came to mind. So with a few wooden takeaway drink stirrers on my work bench, I use for paint mixing, I tried sticking some 240 wet & dry to one, and it worked very well. So I have now made a set of files with different grades of paper. Wet & dry come typically comes in A4 size so this will mean I have a supply of cheep files for a very long time!

Not sure why I missed this thread whist doing my Hornby/Lima upgrade research? So I will share my efforts http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106602-family-8x4-oo-layout-kadee-coupling-effort/?p=2493341 Key points for an 8x4 DCC layout HST upgrade: Used original Virgin Hornby Ringfield motor, but serviced, cleaned, added new bushes and added new traction tyres Swapped old headlight for a BlackCat HST lights unit; downside is no separate high intensity light, but I can cope without that. Modified light cluster with PVC fibre optic to get separate white and red light lenses to match the BlackCat unit. The fibre optic reduced light bleed. But still painted cab light area black. Painted light cluster exterior to match a general Virgin powercar look Painted up existing cab and added driver to offer a bit of detail. Added cab light View showing the two separate lights Added fibre optic to give seperate lights BlackCat light unit fits in original recess with no mods required The finished upgrade, a driver came later once I sourced one, but I will now look at the Bachmann drivers as they look very good. The unit runs very well so far as 2+4. I have managed to get hold of 2 separate Virgin coaches, the short length version with the separate painted window strip to match the original 2 coach HST Train set we first got. Will aim to go for a 2+5 as that will be the limit of the single motor on our layouts gradients.

With regards to the magnets to operate the Kadee couplings, I have gone for Neodymium Magnets. This decision was based on the positive comments I have read and the various videos of operation I have seen on the web. Neodymium Magnets are very strong and one thing I did not really note on modelling forms was any comment on what strength of magnet to get. There was general consensus that there are three main option; cubes, cylinders and flats. I decided to buy all three types and to experiment with each one to see which worked the best. Firstly Neo magnets are graded in their strength and this is the N# for each one. My understanding is that for general use, grades will range from N30 to N52. N42 would appear to be the normal grade. I have read that a N52 will be 20% stronger than N42 but can be twice the cost. I bought the following from First4Magents (https://www.first4magnets.com/) 3mm dia x 13mm thick N42 - 0.42kg Pull 3 x 3 x 3mm thick N35 - 0.28kg Pull 3 x 3 x 3mm thick N42 - 0.38kg Pull 10 x 3.5 x 2.25mm thick N45 - 0.9kg Pull I installed them as follows: Trying out the 4 magnets types I had the following results. The N45 10x35x2.25 was so strong that the Kadee trip pin was pulled right down on to the magnet and the truck got stuck to it!! That magnet was scrapped. Next the 3mm cylinder. This was very easy to install into 3mm holes in the baseboard and looks very discreet. But being a N42 with 0.42kg pull it has quiet a strong effect on the trip pin and would tend to pull the truck towards the magnet if it is left loose running. The coupling was also slightly pulled downwards, which is undesirable. The 3mm cubes are a bit more difficult to install as you can only do one row at a time as you need to wait for the glue to set before adding the next row; otherwise the second row will jump out of place. You must also ensure the poles are correct - North towards one rail and South to the other. I did not find much difference between N35 and N42, But the N42 will pull the trip pin right over towards the rail whereas the N35 is not so strong. I used use superglue to fix in place and so was able to install both rows very quickly. The key thing I learnt is that the magnet orientation has a notable effect on how the Kadee trip pin reacts. With the cubes the pin is just pulled sideways whereas with the cylinders it is pulled sideways and downwards. This I believe is to do with where the North and South poles are. For the cubes it is on the ends (not the top) so the trip pin is less likely to be pulled down unlike the cylinder where the pole is on the top and attract the pin to it. The result for me is 2 rows of 5 cubes super glued in place and probably N35s. Black paint and ballast with hid the quite nicely Much better than the big Kadee magnet. The other issue I encountered during the installation trial on the small size of my layout is that you really do need Kadee uncoupling magnets to be on straight track and well way for curves that cause wagon over swing. This has notably shortened the effective length of my sidings, such that I had to lengthen them to get the right number of trucks in them. The magnets in the station area are not ideal but just about work on the curved track. A point I will have remember on the next layout plan. Sidings lengthened - T marks where the old rail ends used to be The numbers in black identify the number of trucks each siding can take, long, medium and short wheelbase In conclusion the final result though is fantastic and really enjoyable shunting is now possible with no big hand from the sky. Plus, with DCC slow running, one can experience very satisfying shunting. A whole new chapter opens up for us. Uncoupling over cube magnets Uncoupling over cylinder magnets Layout plan showing magnet locations

I Have been making considerable progress on the Kadee conversion front. Firstly, with some time stuck in a hotel whilst working away I have had some free time to convert 18 short wheelbase trucks (mainly POW and Conflats) . These were the trucks I found tucked away with their original couplings removed. Secondly, I have now installed magnets for Kadee operation into the tack at all the locations where I want to uncouple on layout. I am planning that most of the trucks I have converted will be used for shunting puzzle games I am developing for the boys (and myself). The trucks have all been fitted with the large surplus stock of Kadee No.5 and these work fine on my 2nd radius curves. I am not too worried about the slightly over hanging gear box. One issue I discovered with small trucks and Kadee, is that if the wheels are very free running they tend not to want couple together if shunting very slowly. So I have added lead weight, either old printing lead spacers or cut up lead roofing sheet, to most of the wagons. I am working to a total weight of 50g for short wheelbase trucks http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/9456-adding-weight-to-kitbuilt-wagons/ However, the issue with open trucks with no load is where to add the weight so it can't be seen. So I searched this parish for other ideas and came across a one-liner which suggested adding a small piece of foam under the axle to offer some rolling resistance http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43297-non-magnetic-wheels-and-axles/?p=574687. This works really well, but the foam does need to be quite gentle in its springiness . I used some soft foam from a PC mother board pacing box. This is a good substitute for adding all the lead weight. Foam axle break

That's a great looking viaduct, nice mix of scratch parts and off the shelf bits. I really like the transition from girder to brick. Looking forward to watching it progress.

Hi Roger if you PM me your email address I will send you a higher resolution image of the track plan for you. Shall look forward to seeing your progress and hope the kids enjoy the build :-)