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11B

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    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    18 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

    Class 101’s ran until 2001.

    class 205 until 2004.

    VEPs ran until 2010.

    any advance on that for something without cdl ?

     

    Class 121 for Chiltern until 2017 any advance on that for slam door, but these had cdl since 2004.

     

    iirc the 121 was also the end of scheduled vac brake passenger stock too.

     

     

    North West Regional Railways loco hauled mk1 and MK2 lasted until at least summer 2000, and probably 2001 so ties in with the class 101

     

    Ian

    • Like 2

    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    22 minutes ago, JIJ said:

    To those comparing this to other countries which may run without doors, approximately 10 years ago, I was a passenger on a very full voyager heading south on the MML late at night. Due to the full train, several of us were travelling in the vestibule.

     

    At one of the station stops (possibly east midlands parkway), one of the doors didn't close fully and opened as the train was leaving the station (I'm not sure how any interlocking was working). The four or five of us in the vestibule huddled around the other door, and some moved into the corridor connection. At the next station, the door closed and locked properly. 

     

    I've since wondered how the train continued despite the door being open; but at the time neither I or the other passengers pulled the emergency lever, as we all wanted to get home. 

     

    It certainly felt unsafe, but the hazard was obvious to the passengers because we all saw the door not closed and could move away while the train was at low speed. Had the door have come open while we were traveling, it would have been a very different situation.

    No. Tim Farron is Kendal area, ours in Carnforth is David Morris 

    • Agree 2
    • Thanks 1
    • Informative/Useful 2

    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

    The 5Z40 consist reported elsewhere as 94225 4951 99326 99329 21266 1840 13320 13306. None have external CDL lights apparently 

    Practicing a 25 mph run🤔

     

    7 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

    The 5Z40 consist reported elsewhere as 94225 4951 99326 99329 21266 1840 13320 13306. None have external CDL lights apparently 

    If fitted with CDL, do the coaches have to have the external lights or could a different method be used?

     

    Ian

    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted · Edited by 11B

    1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

     

    I do find the use the of the term 'hater' inappropriate with respect to those who object to WCRC's conduct. I have already been falsely accused of hating WCRC on this thread. Objecting to WCRC's behaviour is not hate, it is an informed position by those who put the safety of people first and are prepared to speak out about it.

     

    Kind regards

     

    Tony

     

     

     

    Hi Tony,

     

    I can only apologise, on reflection the word "hater" was perhaps not the wisest choice on my part, and it was not aimed at anyone, and I do respect both your views and informed responses. Ultimately, I personally feel that we probably both have a similar wish for a safe and speedy outcome that is acceptable to all parties concerned (rail industry/law makers/passengers and so on), just sometimes what sounds right in my head as I type can be read in a completely different manner thous giving a different spin on what I'm trying to say.

     

    Kind regards Ian 

    • Like 2
    • Friendly/supportive 6

    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    On 02/04/2024 at 12:20, ruggedpeak said:

    Because as per your first paragraph there is a difference between amateurs and professionals. And no one has an exemption from tyre tread depth because it is utterly critical to the safe operation of a vehicle, the likelihood of it contributing to a collision is extremely high. And amateur drivers cannot be trusted to carry out any promised change.

     

    For 'professionals' under HASAWA there is risk assessments and related processes. The ORR has followed these and allowed operators with suitable and sufficient risk assessments and other processes to have exemptions. This included WCRC who were granted an exemption on the basis they enacted the plan to install CDL and operated in accordance with their risk assessments. Spot checks were undertaken and WCRC were found not to in compliance with their own agreed procedures and that there had been incidents on their services, all detailed in the JR judgement.

     

    Let's again clear up the misinformation being spread. The ORR has not banned anything, the 'ban' is the law set by statutory regulation. ORR's role and responsibility is to enforce those regulations - that is their statutory function. They offered exemptions to those who met the requirements. They withdrew them from those who failed to meet the requirements.

     Hi Tony,

     

    I fear you may have misinterpreted the point I was trying to make, there should be no exemption or exception to the law that is currently in place. What was simply trying to imply was that a realistic date should have been set many years ago for CDL. Then after that date, if it doesn't have it, if doesn't run in passenger service. What one man calls a "safe work around" for not having CDL may not be seen the same by other!

     

    And for clarification - I am neither a supporter or hater of WCR or any other TOC for that matter. I know people that have worked for them, and people that still do. And most importantly to myself, I don't discuss the politics of their work place with them, likewise we don't discuss the politics of mine. Likewise, I am fully aware of the reputation of both WCR and the owner.

     

    Kindest regards Ian

    • Like 2

    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    22 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

     

    Outlawing the purchasing of ladders and many DIY tools would do wonders for A&E as it would significantly reduce the number of 'DIY gone wrong' incidents which cost the NHS large sums of money to sort out. As would mandatory re-testing of motorists every 5-10 years......

     

    Slightly of top, but kind of relevant..  I work in an Emergency Department (Can't use the word Accident any more), I would say that a good 95% of thus type of injury we see is from the so called professionals that take short cuts/refused to use safety equipment, not the DIYers of the world! So like I say kind of relevant to this situation?

     

    But ORR ban does leave me with the question of why this ban doesn't seem fair. Maybe they should have had a cut-off date that applied to all operators with no work around/exceptions. As a comparison the current road laws don't say that when car tyres are down to minimum tread they need to be changed, but if Mr Jones two doors down has the same issue he can drive with them on dry days so long as he promises to change them at some point in the next 18 months!

     

    Just a thought

     

    Ian

    • Like 5
    • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1

    Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    6 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

    Did KWVR and LHR run into BR stations at the time - SVR extended to Kidderminster much later? Maybe that was why but equally, the railways may have taken the view they’d use historic liveries they liked or made up their own. The Dart Valley at that time, IIRC had everything in GW livery (including 1638) and locos such as 6697, 4555, 7029, 6000 and 4079 ran in GW livery in service on the main line in the mid 60s.  I do recall feeling somewhat miffed when I visited KWVR on a loco society shed bash trip around Yorkshire in 1969/70 that even the railbuses were in made up liveries - as I’d never seen them in BR days it was disappointing at the time, although good to see them preserved - 46441 on LHR was another which stood out like a sore thumb, in a pseudo LMS lined livery. However it’s now great to see these photos as it sort of, defines that era of preservation. 

    Lakeside station (and track bed) was still owned by BR then, BR still owned the boats on Windermere

     

    Ian

    • Like 1

    Clubs charitable status

    in Club & Society Info

    Posted

    Hi all,

     

    I'm not sure if this is the right/best place to post this!

     

    I'm involved with a very small model club, someone suggested that we apply for "Charity status". Google tells us that there are a number of model railway clubs that have applied for this and managed to get it, yet others haven't!

     

    This leaves us with a number of questions... Have any of you good people done this? How long did it take? How complicated was it? Why do some clubs get granted this yet others don't?

     

    Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

     

    Many thanks

     

    Ian

    Tail lamps

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    33 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

    I'd always assumed that they'd been made to flash so they're more conspicuous !!?!

    I had wondered that myself, but then the fixed/inbuilt ones could be made to flash 🤔

    Tail lamps

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    Hi all,

     

    A random question which had never occurred to me untill my 4yr old grandson pointed it out!

     

    Why do locos, units, driving trailers have fixed non flashing tail lights whilst the battery powered tail lamps flash? Granted that the battery ones were a replacement for the oil ones could gave the impression of flashing, but is there any need for them to flash,?

     

    Thanks in advance.

     

    Ian

    Morecambe and Heysham Model Railway Club - New location

    in Club & Society Info

    Posted · Edited by 11B

    Hi all

     

    For those of you that may be interested M&HMRC have moved premises recently. The club is now located in the town centre on Morecambe Street, Morecambe with numerous carparks near by.

     

    The club have moved from the old location during November and December 2023 and are currently in busy creating new layouts there. There will hopefully be N, OO DCC, OO DC, O and O-16.5 layouts. The O gauge will sadly be somewhat shorter than the previous on, but the building is much better.

     

    It is hoped that the first of the monthly open days will take place on Saturday 10th February 2024. They meet on a Tuesday and Thursday evening from 7pm and are a small club and are currently recruiting new members. Check out their Facebook page for more information.

     

    Many thanks

     

    Ian

    • Like 2

    WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    So one question that relates to this, and at the risk of a public witch trial for asking...

     

    What do NYMR for the doors on the Network Rail section they operate on to Whitby? Last time I travelled on it they didn't have CDL of a person at each door. Or to put it another way, could the impact of WCR's issues impact on NYMR!

     

    Just a thought to chew over, please don't hate me.

     

    Kind regards Ian 

    • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
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