Waverley47708

Thanks for the kind comments, in a bit of a rush at the moment.

Have had a quick go at a track plan today.  It may make more sense than my attempt to describe it.  Blue lines are scenic breaks, dotted lines are hidden (fiddle yard or hidden north and south station avoiding tracks) lines.

The dotted line at the bottom leads to an area which will be a scenic section above the fiddle yard.  This was because I felt such a big fiddle yard was a lot of layout to loose to storage.

It is 16 x about 11 ft.  I think the Mound to Waverley Bridge is 6ft ish x 4 ft.  Other boards are 3ft wide.

Photos of the current situation of the layout.

Photos 1 2 3 and 4.

The furthest away line partially hidden and the one nearest the camera are the hidden loops. The furthest away has the access top removed.

The HST is in Pt 19, the 27 in Pt 17, the DMU in pt 16 and the ScotRail Express in Pt 14.

Photos 5 and 6, with the North and South walls in place.

The idea.

My original plan was to model Dundee as I thought Waverley would be too difficult, however as I had no first hand knowledge of Dundee in the mid 80s I decided to bite the bullet and go for Waverley.

The layout is a twin track loop with a large fiddle yard.  The fiddle yard has a scenic break where Waverley Bridge would be.  The part of the fiddle yard in front of the scenic break forms the station and the area to the rear of it provides a place to hide trains after they have departed.

Although in reality platforms 12 to 18 are bay platforms, on the layout all tracks except 12, 13 and 18 are through lines, this is to allow it to operate as above and is unseen to the viewer.  A train sitting at one of the platforms will sit partially in the viewed section of the fiddle yard and partly in the hidden part, once it has reached its "destination" it will sit fully in the hidden part, i.e behind the scenic break.

The idea is trains leave their platform, head out through the Mound and go round the layout before entering the same track they left on but stopping before they come back out into the viewed area of the fiddle yard (the section of Waverley between Waverley Bridge and the Mound).

I wanted to be able to run trains round the layout but did not want them running through the station each time the did a circuit.  Trains at speed coming through what are supposed to be bay platforms, or trains which used the bay platforms appearing on the North or South through lines would not look right.  To get around this I incorporated two hidden loops which were to be hidden behind the walls which form the North and South boundary of the station.  This allows trains to run round and round the layout without appearing in the station area.

To be able to hide full length HST (2+8 for the ECML) at around 8ft the hidden section of the fiddle yard had to be over 8ft.  Rather than loose this space an upper section was built above most of the fiddle yard.  This will be developed later and will hopefully be a small terminus station, almost certainly fictional, possibly with a Highland feel to it or even a preserved line despite my policy on Kettles!

At this stage the most of the open countryside is done and Waverley is under construction.  The track and point motors are installed, the bases for the walls and gardens complete.  Photos below show the current situation in the station area.

I have decided to start a new topic on RMWEB for my layout. It is based on Waverley in the mid 80s.

The layout is set in 1985/86 when the 47/7s were in ScotRail livery and based at Haymarket, before they went to Eastfield and before Sprinters began to appear.

47708 Waverley heading towards Waverley with a Mk3 ScotRail Express set from Queen Street.

In 1985 the 47/7s were in ScotRail livery and 27s were still to be found on the Dundee services. Large Logo, Intercity and Railfreight liveries had all appeared. In 1984 although the 27s were on the Dundee services, not all of the 47/7s and their coaches were in ScotRail. By 1987 the 27s were almost gone, the 47/7s had headed West to Eastfield and it was getting harder to ignore Sprinters.

I started construction of the layout about 9 years ago, delays as a result of the garage being too cold in the middle of winter, too many other things to do, too much time on RMWEB and three wee ones (little girls) have all slowed progress. Running trains instead of getting on with the layout and sometimes simply being overwhelmed by the task in hand have also slowed things down.

Waverley West is a first class layout and was an encouragement to me to get on with it, but it was also a reminder as to the work involved in trying to recapture Waverley in the mid 80s.

Having been brought up in a house overlooking a Freight Only line with a Class 20 and 16t mineral wagons every week or so, Waverley in comparison was an exciting place to be in the mid 80s with it’s 08s, 20s, 26s, 27s, 37s, 47s, 47/7s, HSTs, 101s, 104s, 107s, and 120s.

I used to head to Waverley with a school friend catching the 47 hauled Wessex Scot or the Cornishman from Inverkeithing, on arriving it was a quick check of the Solari Arrivals and Departures board before taking up residence in the BRUTE which was always to be found at the end of Plt 14. From there, with the exception of some of the HSTs terminating from the South we could see all that was coming and going.

Happy days, the highlight being the 47/7s on the Edinburgh Glasgow, 27s on the Dundee services and the 47/4s on the cross country services between Aberdeen, Dundee or Edinburgh and far flung destinations in Dorset, Devon or somewhere else in the South via the WCML

Most of the scenic section out with the station is now complete; the station area is still under construction.

More to follow, hope you enjoy the layout and I am hoping by putting it on here it will spur me on to get it finished.

I have heard before that what was running in your formative years can have a big influence on your railway interest.

Based on the members of my club and looking at their interests and approximate ages, I think this rule of thumb holds true for most of them. All those green diesels, black steam locos and maroon coaches - you can guess their average age!

The exceptions to the rule are those of all ages who feel drawn to the “Romance of steam” or those of whatever age who go for modern image, (by this I mean modern image as in what is running at present, an expensive version of our hobby with every new piece of rolling stock, livery and new operating company). As an aside what will the new ECML franchise mean for those trying to sell Hornby Mk3s in East Coast Livery for £80, will the price go up or down

Born in the Kingdom of Fife in the 70s. The house I grew up in backed onto the then Freight Only line to Dunfermline Upper. Infrequent Single Class 20s with 16t mineral wagons were the order of the day, or should I say order of the week.

As I got older I would venture to the Dunfermline Lower line and the range of trains trebled, yes trebled to 101s, pairs of 20s on MGR and 26s on short freights. The school I went to was great for seeing and hearing fully loaded MGR climbing up towards Halbeath.

Then I discovered Inverkeithing with a bit more to see and by the mid 80s I found Edinburgh Waverley, 08s, 20s, 26s, 27s on the Dundee Circuit, the occasional 37, 47/0s, 47/4 and the best of all 47/7s, HSTs, 101s, 104s, 107s and 120s - joy oh joy.

Happy, happy days at the end of Pt 14.

For me that sealed it and therefore I model the mid 80s in the Edinburgh area.

Those who spent their teenage years in Perth in the 40s could have been drawn to LNER or LMS. Our newest club layout is Laurencekirk, north of Kinnaber Jn allows us to run both East and West Coast stock. I am reliably informed that although this stretch North of Kinnaber Jn is on the East coast and hugs the East coast from Stonehaven to Aberdeen, it is actually considered part of the WCML (mileage is from Carlisle via the now gone Strathmore line). Just thinking about it that would mean the WCML probably sees more of the North Sea than the Irish Sea.

Kind of limits your scope for running coal trains though .

Replacement tripper trucks though

A little outwith my pre Sprinter and pre 477s heading to Eastfield period, nevertheless a green and cream Loch Eil inspection saloon in 1998

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72123072@N04/8333916006/

And link to some details

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1052

This is not the Bachmann version which is ex LMS, this one is ex LNER.

Back to the Bachmann model.

Picture of an ex LMS at the rear of a passenger service at Oban.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sparrowhawk7/12391206585/

And an interesting closer view it appears that the row of seats have replaced the table and chairs.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sparrowhawk7/7227610722/

Really looking forward to seeing the layout at Perth this summer.

We had six class 37s in and around Perth station last Monday morning, not quite Diesels on the Duchy but as good as it gets these days.  Two on the nuclear train, two on the snow train, one on snow duties and one on the Network Rail test train.

Thanks for the extra information Waverley47709

 

I've been wondering about that LNER one for a while so it's good to get a little more info

 

I have noticed in the past that if i mentioned LMS observation saloons on the Oban line people would always tell me i was mistaken and it was a 101 unit even when I told them that worked the Kyle line and that i was actually aware of that one.

 

I remember one of the times when I saw the LMS inspection Saloon (45030) we were offered the chance to ride in it for a suppliment but for some reason we didn't do it, so i wonder if it was used as a mix of inspection/observation saloon? Say work a passenger service to get to it's destination and take advantage of the situation by charging a suppliment to travel in it, then later use it as an inspection saloon when required. Seems a good idea to use it to earn extra revenue

Sorry, the above is the limit of my knowledge on the subject.  I am sure there will be someone out there who will know more. 

I would be surprised if a particular saloon had a dual use and suspect your one was given over to that role for public use for a period of time, possibly as suggested by Bon Accord as part of a centenary celebration.  But that is pure speculation on my behalf.

A while ago their was a bit of a discussion on this forum about whether or not these ex LMS(?) Inspection Saloons were used as  Observation Saloons.

It seems the ex 101 DMUs which were used in the mid 80s between Inverness and Kyle had caused some of this confusion.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/14398834138/in/photostream/

Confusion only added to no doubt by the photos of the ex LMS Inspection Saloons as part of a train formed of a loco, normal coaching and an Inspection Saloon.  I am reliably informed Inspection Saloons in such a formation was most likely a positioning move for Engineers use.

Inspection Saloon seen to the rear of the formation.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/terry47401/10082688514/in/photostream/

or

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/9880436243

Now then, to add to confusion it seems ex Inspection Saloons were used for public use as Observation Cars up here in Scotland, but they were ex LNER and may have been used on the West Highland (Glasgow QS to Fort William) rather than the Far North (Inverness to Kyle)

In British Rail at Work - ScotRail by Colin Boocock there are several black and white pictures, one is of Sc1999 being named Lochaber at Fort William on 8 May 1980

A colour photo from BR loco-hauled coaching stock 1948-97 shows us it was blue grey with 3 front windows.

Else where in the book there is a close up of a smiley chap reportedly applying the "finishing touches" to Sc1998 at Cowlairs on 27 March 1983 which was the "second saloon coach for the West Highland line"

later still in the book a full view (black and white) of Sc1998 named Loch Eil on the front.  The comment says "Sc1998 was once a LNER inspection saloon.  Restored to the colours of that railway at Cowlairs, the coach was internally refurbished for the 1983 season"

It is hard to work out the colour from the photo, it appears quite dark and I would have gone for maroon were it not for the caption about being restored to the colours of that railway.  Not sure maroon was an LNER colour.  Another point is that it had 4 windows at the end shown from the solebar to the roof, two top, two bottom.

I assume this would be the same one, again from BR loco-hauled coaching stock 1948-97.

Just in case I have not caused enough confusion, looking at 37081Lochlong,s post above re an Inspection Saloon at Glasgow QS in 1985, the Inspection Saloon in that photos appears to be an ex LMS one, 45030 and not one of the ex LNER ones Sc1998 or 1999.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76502-inspection-saloon/page-21&do=findComment&comment=1759118

Presumably it was on a positioning move for the Engineers, unless between 1983 and 1985 it replaced Sc1998 and 1999 for public use?

Answers of a Post Card...............

A few years ago they disappeared from Lidl in Perth like the proverbial snow of a dyke within days.

Went in yesterday, thinking there may be none left and if there was they may be reduced. There was 12 large ones and about 6 wee ones in Lidl Perth. No reductions though.

Not sure I am buying the cost agreement, unless the imaginary sole bar made them cheaper to make that is. Would not imagine getting the blue line above the grey correctly applied would have added to the cost.

Am wondering how much better then the Hornby version of the Mk 2Ds they are.

Lima did do a standard run of Scotrail Mk 3s circa 25 years ago. Sometime around 1995 Harburn also did a boxed set of a 47/7 plus 3 Scotrail Mk 3s.

Re questions about Mk 3s in ScotRail (perhaps this query started in Harburn should now be moved to another forum as it seems to have moved on from the connection to Harburn), I concur with Bon Accord, Harburn did them as special editions and as he says they were also a standard item on the Lima range.

I seem to recall someone, possibly Durham Trains of Stanley had indicated as Model Rail Scotland 2 or 3 years ago they were going to, or were thinking about doing them with Hornby. I think whoever it was had mock ups of Mk3s and Mk2 air cons on display. Apologies if I got the wrong shop.

Bachmann could do their Mk2a in this livery as there were some in that livery. Have seen a rake made up of a 477 and DBSO with MK2a in between known as the Jacobite. The photos have been in the blue grey period. Have not seen a full rake of them in ScotRail livery; however a single Mk2a in ScotRail, sometimes featured in some of the Mk2 air con sets.

For reasons unknown and not understood my attempt to "Reply quoting this post" in 1326 and 1327 did not work, so all it appears that i have done is Reply with the original but my additional words have been missed out. This may have seemed an odd thing to do.

Anyway what I was trying to say was, re the comments about Guard Bridge being modellable - I was sure i saw a part finished layout of the bridge using 3D printing at Model Rail Scotland a few years ago, but that I could not remember who was building it.

Regarding the pictures of Waverley I was getting very excited. I had been going back through the most recent postings in reverse order and once I had got past the horrible Spintery things in the Kingdom of Fife I was delighted to see some shots of Waverley in the mid 80s and earlier.

I am modelling it at home in 1985/6, I note that in the shot of the 101 the ballast between the tracks is red, on the other side the shot of Lady Di it is grey. Must make a mental note of that.

We're back in Edinburgh this evening, both at Waverley and Princes Street Gardens.

 

a Edinburgh Waverley 37259 and 37121 coming onto to special Newcastle to Fort William 11th May C6838.jpg

Edinburgh Waverley 37259 and 37121 coming onto to special Newcastle to Fort William 11th May 1985 C6838

 

 

a Edinburgh Waverley Class 101 Cowdenbeath to Edinburgh 12th April 86 C7411.jpg

Edinburgh Waverley Class 101 Cowdenbeath to Edinburgh 12th April 86 C7411

 

 

a Edinburgh Waverley 47712 Lady Diana Spencer Edinburgh to Glasgow 12th April 86 C7414.jpg

Edinburgh Waverley 47712 Lady Diana Spencer Edinburgh to Glasgow 12th April 86 C7414

 

 

b Princes Street Gardens Class 27 Edinburgh to Glasgow QS push pull Aug 73 C1295.jpg

Princes Street Gardens Class 27 Edinburgh to Glasgow QS push pull Aug 73 C1295

 

 

b Princes Street Gardens 37033 down excursion 12th April 86 C7431.jpg

Princes Street Gardens 37033 down excursion 12th April 86 C7431

 

 

David

Hi, Dave. Excellent photo's tonight. The first one, C16794, of Aberdour and 150208 passing through to Edinburgh on April 24th, 1992, is showing quite a gap between the footsteps of the unit and the platform, which I think would be frowned upon in this day and age! Photo' J3964, of Guard Bridge Piers, of River Eden bridge is a fascinating view, and I think is one of those very modellable things.

 

Please keep the photo's coming,

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

Got into the Saloon and added figures, 2 seated up front, one standing behind them and a Guard in the middle. Couple of tips for anyone trying it, do not glue both end of the front mounted connector to the saloon front and underneath as you will struggle to separate the body and chassis if you do. I put my figures at one end, the end with more space between the side windows and the front, this is more forgiving re hiding any chopped legs than the other end. Finally I could not see how two separate the hand rails without breaking them, they are a soft plastic.

Interestingly when you get into it, there is a 6 hob cooker sink and urn in the kitchen area, although opaque you can just see through the kitchen windows if you hold it up to the light.

Here are images of the Manchester Victoria pet. May help with putting the detail parts on. On the topic of if they were pushed or not note the description on the body side at the right hand end.Scanner has cropped it but clearly marked 80 M.P.H. Drawn. 50 M.P.H. Propelled

 

inspection saloon 3.jpg

 

inspection saloon 1.jpg

 

inspection saloon 2.jpg

 

inspection saloon 4.jpg

 

With other liveries they have been used in more recent times. Both these pics were taken at York on the same day in the 1990's

 

inspection saloon5.jpg

 

inspection saloon6.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Got a Blue Grey Inspection Saloon whilst at North Shields on Saturday from Cheltenham Model Centre.

It is an excellent model and have fitted coupling etc at one end. It is currently being propelled by an Eastfield 37.

I had decided not to buy one. I assumed it would be a non Scottish one and I did not fancy altering it to make it “fit” my layout. Thanks to a couple of postings on RMWEB of it in 1986 in Scotland I had no choice but to buy it!!

Re the price, it is the most expensive coach I have bought. Interestingly some of the chat at the show was around justifying the price by the level of detail on it. It certainly is a very well detailed model, but I am not sure the difference is significantly better / improved compared to other current excellent models (the TPO for example) to justify the extra cost.

Perhaps part of the reason for the higher cost is the limited saleability of it. After all I can’t imagine many of us will be buying rakes of Inspection Saloons. Clearly Bachmann can put a lot of effort (cost) into say a TSO or a BSO knowing many modellers will literally buy rakes of them and over time recoup the investment. When it comes to one offs, it is understandable that each unit will have a higher price to allow the manufacturer to recoup the cost. This is not a complaint about price or level of details just a thought re reason for the higher than usual cost.

Am planning on putting figures in it, am thinking some of the seated Prieser figures may be ideal as those seats look small.

And an early Range Rover.

Oh yes - an early Range Rover would be nice.

Thanks, looks like I will be on the hunt for them when they come out.

Would be great if Mr Oxford did one as a Pway half crew half covered lorry.

Ps still hoping for a Rover SD1 as a mid 80s Traffic Police car.

http://www.roversd1.co.uk/police_cars.htm

Thanks for posting; that 1/76 Ford Cargo van should prove popular.

Anyone know when these lorries were around, hoping they were around in the mid 80s?

The line up which includes Aberdeen Kirkhill for the Perth 2014 show has been added to RMWEB under exhibitions.  I for one am really looking forward to seeing it in the flesh and to meeting Flood and Dunedein.

Waverley

Still one small one left in Perth today.

Waverley47708

Just got back from the Charity shop, where I donated nearly 200 paperbacks, most quite modern.

 

This lunchtime's offering:

 

Diesels 70's and 80's014.jpg

 

Class 101 unit heading east for Cleethorpes, about to cross Keadby Bridge, 24/9/87, 17:24.

 

Diesels 70's and 80's015.jpg

 

Just over a week later, we see Sprinter 150256 about to enter Crowle from the east, running alongside the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation Stainforth and Keadby canal. 2/10/87, 18:10

 

Diesels 70's and 80's016.jpg

 

On the 3rd October 1978, Doncaster Works held an open day, and Class 08, 08562 named "The Doncaster Postman" was on display. 3/10/87, 15:15

 

Diesels 70's and 80's017.jpg

 

Also being shown, although awaiting scrapping, was class 46 46010.

 

Diesels 70's and 80's018.jpg

Diesels 70's and 80's020.jpg

Diesels 70's and 80's025.jpg

 

The last three show class 47 newly painted and lined out in LNER apple green, and named "Doncaster Enterprise" on that day.15:25/6& 16:10.

 

As an aside, during the 70's and 80's, I visited quite a few works, and NONE had such a good standard of paintwork as Doncaster. It was rare to find a blemish, let alone painted over flaking paint and rust, such as could be found at Crewe, which I found had the lowest standard.

Really enjoying a look at your photos always like a bit of 1980s action preferably pre sprinter though!

Re 47522 the reason for the repaint was a crash at Forteviot in 1982 when it hit a tractor on the level crossing.

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=0831050000210

Waverley47708