Unknown Warrior

Photos of The Unknown Warrior being wheeled at Llangollen (Photos Courtesy of David Wilcock) and on arrival at Tyseley (photo courtesy of Kevin West). First time as a 4-6-0, well sort of! Axle boxes are now being fitted. More news in the New Year.

The loco appears to be completely original apart from the Hoy parallel buffers and the lamp irons. It has not been fitted with the two lower clamps on the smoke box door.

Coverage of visit to The National Arboretum and Warley in Centenary News: http://centenarynews.com/article/?id=1262

At Warley the Project launched prints of Colin Wright's new oil painting: "The Unknown Warrior - a brush with the past." "An artist's impression of Crewe North Shed - May 1934. The original Patriot Class: 5551(unnamed) was out shopped in May 1934, The original Claughton LNWR Memorial Engine "1914 ( LMS 5964) Patriot" was withdrawn in July 1934 and the last Jumbo "25001 Snowdon" was withdrawn in October 1934." 5551 appears in sparkling pre-1936 LMS Crimson Lake Livery. 5964 Patriot’s Livery is a little more care worn! The pairing of 5551 with the Claughton thus spans the development from Claughton to Patriot before the Stanier Revolution and also brings together the original and new memorial engines. Artistic license allows 5551 to wear its successor’s name to emphasise the link. The original (4)5551 was never named. The trio of locomotives outside the shed is completed by the last Large Jumbo "25001 Snowdon," which had been renumbered onto the duplicate list the month before and was withdrawn in October 1934, leaving “Hardwicke” in preservation as a reminder of these gallant little engines: a fitting companion to “Patriot” and “The Unknown Warrior.” In the background lurks George the Fifth 4-4-0 “5401 Windermere” which was to soldier on until February 1936. I would like to acknowledge the help of Bob Essery and David Hunt of The LMS Society for their help in researching details for the painting. Colin Wright is to be congratulated on producing a second fine painting for The Project. Prints of the painting are available in two sizes: B2 and B3 and can be ordered through The LMS Patriot Project Website at: www.lms-patriot.org.uk

Robmcg are you saying that if we contact Hornby requesting replacement 10 spoke wheels for the Star we have already bought they will send us a free set?

Bachmann have posted pictures of all three production models on their website today.

BR Steam Allocations 1948-1968, pt 3 by Jim Grindlay lists the following as final allocations and withdrawal dates: 50721 27A Bank Hill withdrawn:01/61. 50781 27C Southport withdrawn 02/60. Hope that helps.

The standard Bachmann 6 pin decoder fits fine. I have already fitted one to my NRM Version and have another one for my BR loco. Here are a couple of photos of my two locos which hopefully will help to make more sense of post 336 on the difference between 1008 in it's NRM form and how it would look in Crimson Lake. The main changes being the buffers and the lamp irons. The two clamps at the bottom of the smoke door would be the icing on the cake. After being passed over by Hornby again today the followers of the LMS continue to be dependent on Bachmann - many thanks for your excellent efforts so far!

My BR Liveried 2-4-2T arrived today which allows comparison with NRM version. See photo of the real 1008 attached, at the NRM a few weeks ago during the Great Gathering. The photo confirms that Bachmann have modeled 1008 in its original condition, as preserved with a single lamb holder above the right buffer beam, which Bachmann have omitted, and what appears to be twin lamb holders on the top of the smoke box which have been represented. It also seems obvious why Bachmann decide not to fit sprung tapered buffers to 1008, which would have been quite delicate. The more substantial Hoy style buffers on 50636 are sprung. In Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Locomotives by Barry Lane there is a drawing of 1008 in the book representing it's appearance from the mid 1890s by which time conventional lamp irons had been fitted but it still retains the original buffers. A photo (c1908) of 1263 (BR 50712) shows it fitted with the Hoy Buffers as fitted to 50636. All the other photos of locos from that period show them fitted with the Hoy buffers, so it is possible that 1008 had them fitted at around that time. There is a photo of 1008 as LMS 10621 in Crimson Lake livery and the buffers had been changed by then. The other modification applied by the early 1900s was two clamps to the bottom of the dished smokebox door. A model of 10621 (1008) in Crimson Lake Livery would be slightly different to the NRM Model. It would retain the dished smokebox door, probably with the addition of the two clamps, and Ramsbottom safety valves. The curved hand rail round the top of the smoke box was still present but conventional lamb irons would be needed. The buffers would be replaced by the Hoy Pattern as fitted to 50636. Not major changes so perhaps a Crimson Lake version could be produced without to much modification! Overall Bachmann have produced another stunning model for the LMS following the 4F and 10000/1 and there is still the 1F and the Stanier Mogul to look forward to. That is in addition to the Dukedog and the J11 which should arrive very soon with the Auto Pannier, E5 and Brighton Atlantic to follow over the next couple of years. It will be very interesting to see Hornby's response in less than 36 hours time following the slight disappoint of the Star!

According to "Locomotive Liveries of the LMS" by David Jenkinson & Bob Essery The following L&Y 2-4-2T with round top boilers and short bunkers were painted in pre-1928 LMS Crimson Lake Livery with 14" numerals (Gold, shaded black) on the tank side and the LMS Coat of Arms on the bunker side, ex. L&Y number in brackets: 10621 (1008);10637 (1040); 10683 (349); 10699 (1214);10732 (104); 10735 (129); 10776 (1343); 10807 (1391). In addition 10730 (88).carried the same livery but with LMS in small letters on the bunker side. The observant among you will note that the first on the list, 10621 is the preserved 1008! Therefore as long as the smoke box and front hand rail had not been changed in early LMS it would be very simple for this model to be produced, if in fact it has not already been done! (I have no inside knowledge!) I am fairly certain that someone has already drawn attention to this earlier in this topic.

I had no problem with ordering all three Locomotion Limited Editions: The Royal 47, Deltic DCC fitted and the L&Y 2-4-2T. I ordered directly from the web site and received email confirmation quickly, not to mention the quick extraction of the funds from my credit card account! The models arrived promptly and well packed, once released. I think that Locomotion may have struggled to keep up with orders, which may have diverted their attention from notifying those who had made an expression of interest. After all this is really the first time they have gone into the limited edition market for versions of mainstream models in a big way. I am sure that they will have learnt a few lessons! I personally would not rely on expressions of interest. I had already placed a firm order by the time they contacted me! I did wait before ordering one of the L&Y Tanks because I thought I might be able to pick up one at Warley and save the postage. However once I realized how quickly they were going, I got the order in promptly! Just as well as they sold out before Warley and they didn't even have a stand there as far as I know. As far as I am concerned I will keep an eye on the Locomotion site in future and get my order in quick. I notice that all the Deltics have now gone. As present Bachmann seem to be sell models in pre-grouping liveries with amazing rapidity. The SE&CR C Class, S&DJR 4F and the L&Y 2-4-2T have all disappeared so quickly! Certainly the L&Y Tank in early LMS Red would be, I think, would be another hot seller. Is anyone listening out there!

At Warley the Project was please to announce a partnership with Bachmann to produce a 00 Scale model of "The Unknown Warrior" in early 2018 to coincide, hopefully, with the real loco's completion and launch into traffic. The livery of the first model to be launched will be the first that "The Unknown Warrior" carries when launched into traffic. This will be decided by a ballot of the membership in the autumn of 2016, one member, one vote, so if you want to influence the vote become a member! Initially the model will only be available from the Project before it goes on general release. Obviously it is too early to announce a price for the model but the project is asking for expressions of interest. There is no commitment to buy at this stage and no deposits are being taken. If you are interested in being kept informed about the model's progress, please email your Name, telephone number and email address to: lms-patriot@hotmail.co.uk or write to: LMS-Patriot Co. Ltd., PO Box 3118, Hixon, Stafford, ST16 9JL. Bachmann have kindly hand finished two existing Patriot Models as "The Unknown Warrior" in LMS Crimson Lake and BR Green, see below. These are purely for illustrative purposes and do not necessarily reflect the final appearance of the model. The other livery possibilities are LMS Wartime Black, post war LMS Lined Black and BR Lined Black.

What next for the Unknown Warrior? The project is not standing still after Warley: "The Unknown Warrior" is currently at Tyseley Locomotive Works where the axle boxes are being fitted. The replacement inside cylinder casting will be machined during January, then the rolling chassis will be returned to Llangollen around the end of January ready for the inside cylinder to be replaced. The outside motion brackets will be machined and the outside cylinders due to be cast and fitted during 2014. The bogie assembly will also take place at Tyseley. All the parts for this have been sourced apart from the second bogie wheel set, which will be delivered in 2014 from an 8F, Construction of the copper firebox is also to begin at LNWR Heritage Ltd. at Crewe. Further progress of course depends on the speed we can raise money and the response to the boiler loan appeal. On the positive side £10,700 was banked as a result of the Warley weekend so a big thank you to everyone who donated, became a member or bought items from the stand. Also a big thank you for all the positive comments, likes etc. from this Forum.

If you have any problem loading the Patriot Project website, which has just been revamped, hit F5 which should solve the problem.

You can find out more about The Project at: http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/ and follow it on Facebook at Lms Patriotproject Newbuild

First of all a big thank you to everyone who visited The Unknown Warrior Stand ay Warley last weekend. It was an incredible weekend for the Project starting at The National Arboretum last Thursday for a dedication orchestrated by The Warley Club. The visit was covered in detail by Central TV News and transmitted on the early evening news. The Project is very grateful to The Warley Committee for the opportunity to display the loco, to Squires for sponsoring the transport, to Allelys for transporting the loco in their normal efficient manner. The massive support of all the supplies who have so far manufactured and assembled parts to bring the loco to its current state and to the other firms who have shown the confidence to support us thus far including Oakwood Press and Bachmann. This is not a complete list and inevitably I have missed people out for which I apologize. One aspect of the weekend was the painting of the cab by Ian Hewitt and Mike O'Connor of Heritage Painting. Whenever they were in action they drew a large crowd, many of whom no doubt wished they could do lining etc. as skillfully! The purpose of this topic is to keep members of The Forum up to date with progress on the build of The Unknown Warrior. The Loco is now at Tyseley to have the axle boxes fitted before returning to Llangollen for assembly to continue. I will add more details of the visit to the NEC later. John H-T.

I am waiting with bated breath to see which will arrive first: The L&Y Tank or Lode Star. I ordered the former a month ago and the later over 10 months ago! If either or both don't arrive before I leave for set up day at Warley on Friday Morning, at least I will be able to visit their respective stands at the NEC! I have to say that in general both the NRM and Locomotion have dealt very well with getting their limited editions out in the past. No previous experience of Steam. At least I am sure I will get the Locomotion L&Y Tank well before the standard Bachmann version arrives! I certainly am not going to get upset about either or in fact all three! P.S. I'm glad I didn't bank on picking one up at Warley - only 49 left, so if you want to be sure of one, don't wait till Saturday, pay the postage and be certain of getting one!

Stan, Please see my post above on p 9. I mentioned LMS Push Pull Stock which were built/converted from period I, II & III 57' non-corridor general service stock. The first 3 were converted from 54' coaches. See: LMS Coaches, An Illustrated History by D Jenkinson and R J Essery. Will admit that it is buried within the rest of the post! Best wishes, John H-T.

I think the idea of applying some sort of selection criteria to our "pipedreams" has merit so here are some of my criteria (not all have to be fulfilled and there will be the odd wild card!): * It has been preserved so is available for scanning and younger people, who don't remember everyday steam on the railway, may have seen it. * It is not too large for my layout and could have reasonably operated in the area I am attempting to represent. * It can make use of parts already produced by the manufacturer. * Good selection of liveries, and given the present craze for pre-grouping liveries (guilty as charged!) is a pre 1923 design. My list for next year's wish list poll is: GWR: Saint 4-6-0 and Bulldog 4-4-0. SR: SECR Wainwright D Class 4-4-0 & H Class 0-4-4T; LBSCR K Class 2-6-0; LSWR 0415 Adams Radial 4-4-2T. LMS: Midland Johnson 0-4-4T, LNWR 0-6-2 Coal Tank: L&Y Class 27 (A Class) Aspinal 0-6-0; CR 812 Class 0-6-0; LMS Stanier 2-6-2 T; LMS or LNWR Push Pull Set; Standard LMS Goods Brake Van. LNER: GER J15 0-6-0; NER Q6 0-8-0; NBR J36 0-6-0; NBR D34 Glen 4-4-0. BR Standard 3 2-6-0 and of course the Fell! (Many thanks to all those who responded to my previous suggestion for the Fell, It has quite a following in the Derby Area and it ended its career painted Green. I know a man who worked on it at Derby Works!) Derby Lightweight single unit "Iris" I would 't necessarily buy all these because of my 2nd criteria, but I think there is a nice cross section there Dave for you to get your teeth into (and the other manufacturers who are probably following this thread!) Sorry not much modern image, most of them have already been done! A couple of thoughts for those who have persevered thus far: 25 of the J36s served in France during the 1st WW and one of them, 673 Maude (BR 65243), is preserved at The Bo'ness and Kinniel Railway. Would be a great model for 2018 to commemorate the centenary of the armistice. There are three Scottish locos in the list, please do look North of the Border! Finally if you are at the NEC next weekend please come and inspect "The Unknown Warrior" and support the project.

Fell Diesel 10100 in 00 please.

The P2 is a different animal, it was always going to be "design clever" and even the special edition is going to come in sub £100 with discount. The sample I saw at Barrow Hill looks promising, the general shape seems right with a decent paint job. At the price it will probably be acceptable. In most of our minds the Star was going to be a high standard model, hence our disappointment.

The Hornby Catalogue is quite vague about the specification. However the Star was not listed among the new releases to include design clever features. I assumed, always dangerous, that the Star would be manufactured to the high standards we have come to expect from Hornby and that is would be to the same standard as the retooled Castle and 28XX, both of which I have. On that basis I immediately preordered Lode Star from Steam. The alarm bells started ringing for me when the 2-8-0/2-8-2 Tanks arrived with moulded smoke box door darts etc. Thankfully the Star is better than that with just the cab side rails moulded, which I don't feel is acceptable on what has every appearance of being a premium model at a premium price, especially when ordered from Steam. I find it unbelievable that Hornby have fitted the wrong bogie wheels, especially when they already have the correct ones in their parts bin. I am prepared to pay a premium price for Lode Star as the profits are going to Steam. However I am extremely disappointed that Hornby have failed to deliver a quality model of one of the most important Express Passenger designs of the twentieth century to supply to one of our leading railway museums as a special edition, as well as standard production versions to the trade in general. Hornby perhaps need to look at the high standard special editions supplied by Bachmann to the NRM. The next one, the L&Y 2-4-2T, has every appearance of being an absolute stunner, so much so that it shows every sign of being sold out before the release date! Hornby - "Go and do thou likewise!"

Agreed. We know the design faults, it is up to us to decide to buy or not. It seems that Hornby are not interested in the inaccuracies or in changing the "design clever" features. Those of us who ordered and paid for "Lode Star" from Steam long ago are in a cleft stick because we want the Museum to benefit from the sale (well I do!). As long as the model is not faulty - eg. it doesn't run properly, bits have broken off, I will accept delivery and live with it. May change the wheels. I certain have no expectation of Hornby having the good grace to supply a correct set! As I was the fourth person to place an order I expect to receive mine later in the week, once replacement limited edition certificates have been produced. It is regrettable that the Star has been tainted by the design clever concept I just hope that when 2807 arrives next year it will be to the same standard as the previous 28XX models and not adulterated by design clever. Duke of Gloucester and Cock O' The North are a different matter as we have always been aware that they would be design clever and ordered/ didn't order on that basis. I have to say that my confidence in Hornby is severely dented by their efforts(?) this year.

Jubilees have very little to do with Castles. They were Patriots with a tapered boiler. The Patriot's boiler was designed at Crewe in the late 1920's to re-boiler the Claughtons and the bottom end was derived from the Royal Scots. Mr. Stanier had quite a struggle to make the Jubilees as good as the Patriots in the first instance, one occasion when Wiltshire Wisdom had to learn a trick or two from Crewe and Derby - high degree superheat for a start!

Now down for mid November on the Steam Website. Will we get it before the first anniversary of the original launch date? Not long now! At least my WLA/Dapol Western is on it's way by courier!