rodent279

I suspect the reason for the proliferation of untested & diverse designs, with little in common between them, was a result of political influence, in trying to spread state funds across private industry as far as possible. As I said earlier, I don't think there was really very much that the traffic requirements of the 1960's demanded that couldn't be met with a fleet of 20's, 37's & 40's.

I think BR could have been a bit cleverer in it's dual sourcing, along the lines of what DB did with the V200's. Surely the Type 4 spec could have specified interchangeable engines, so that some of the fleet could have Sulzer engines, & some EE engines. The spec could even have required generators to be interchangeable as well. Then you would get a real comparison between types, rather than comparing a 47 to a 50, which is a bit like comparing apples & pears. It would be interesting to see a Deltic engine married to a hydraulic transmission too. Imagine the starting torque you'd get from 3300bhp coupled to a hydraulic transmission!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the baby Deltic engines, the T9-29's, were not the major cause of faulures after refurb, it was the ancillaries, like the cooling system drive you mention? Another thought is that a single 18 cyl Deltic engine in a class 37 would give the same power rating, for quite a lot less weight & size. Does make me wonder why the Baby Deltic bodyshell wasn't used to trial a type 3 with a large Deltic engine. Getting a bit OT now, this thread is supposed to be about class 20's!

Although the Deltic concept had much to offer in greater simplicity, lack of valves, small size & weight for its power etc I don't blame them for trying, and I suspect as usual it was not properly developed. I'm sure the problems could have been ironed out, but like the Co-Bo's, there were too few of them, so they were doomed. Even if they'd been successful from the start, they'd have gone early as non-standard. Imagine though, a Baby Deltic engine in a DEMU? 1200hp in a package not much bigger or heavier than the EE 6-cyl offering at 1/2 the power. Either you could run twice the train for the same performance, or have twice the acceleration. EDIT:-Or, even better, a Baby Deltic engine in a class 73, allowing nearly same power on diesel as on electric!

Slightly off topic-what happened to DP2's engine? Is it still around?

The cynic in me suggests that the government of the day saw a means of diverting state funds into private industry! I've said before elsehwere in this forum that I suspect, left to it's own devices, BR would have been happy with a fleet of 20's, 37's & 40's. That would have accounted for all but the heaviest freights & fastest passenger services. There is also the issue of dual sourcing, i.e. not putting all your eggs in one basket. BR seemed to do this by purchasing complete locos off the shelf from different manufacturers, often with little in common between them. DB took this idea a step further, for example, the V200 diesel locos & Vt08/12 DMU's all used 3 different types of engine & 2 different types of transmission, all interchangeable. It was common for a loco to have two different engines & transmissions. Not that they worked out of the box, they had their share of problems. I think the MAN engines were problematic in DB service as well as on BR, but not to the same extent as in the class 21/22's. Getting back to class 20's, I wonder if the body design has a bearing on their longevity? Mention has been made of corrosion being less of an issue, is that perhaps because they are a very strong underframe with a lightweight fabricated body mounted on top, which is therefore perhaps easier to repair than the all-welded frame with sheet steel welded on top that was used on other types? With the possible exception of the 08's they must have been BR's best buy.

They're big, so we can't hit 'em.

Awesome photo.

And I suspect therein lies the difference, that a steam loco burns it's coal much more efficiently & thoroughly (if it's well fired) than a domestic fire.

Once again, the gullibility of grown adults never ceases to amaze me! I mean, come on.......summer in Cleethorpes........

Slightly off topic, as it's not related to bridge bashing as such, but it seems there's a lot of knowledgeable bus people on here. Has anyone tried fitting couplers & MU gear to buses & running pairs of single deckers with one driver?

Morning all. What do you make spray booths from? How big, are they fully enclosed etc? Do you have any photos etc? Thanks in advance, Neil

Oh it will. Maybe not so much the new 5G RAN, but IoT services don't have to be on the back of 5G RAN, they can use 4G if needed, which is gradually overhauling 3G in terms of coverage footprint. 3G will eventually go, data services will be on the 4G network.

This will come, with 5G mobile networks & IoT.

I wasn't aware that they never actually had a driving desk. I knew the prototypes did though, and I thought the production fleet had them but they were not used & then removed. I've learnt something today!

Indeed, the famous FL9's, bi-mode diesels from the 1950's (think class 73's with a lot more muscle), were built so they could run on electric for the last few miles into the subterranean NY Central.

Or in deed a Morris Minor! Think of the CO2 locked up in the wood on my Traveller! 49yrs old & still going strong. Very little plastic either.

And they are only going to get better & more efficient. Last time I looked into it, solar panels were under 10% efficient in terms of light energy hitting them to energy output.

Not Great Western Trains, I know, & not the period in question, but here's 43046 departing Bedford in Aug 2003, still with guards window & driving desk window in position. I presume the driving controls had long since been removed. 43046_Bedford_Aug_2004_02 by Mr Ratty, on Flickr

Is that shunter this machine:- 20160116_160324 by Mr Ratty, on Flickr Captured at Swanwick, Jan 2016.

Agree. I think it's too far gone now. For what it would cost, you could probably electrify & maybe quadruple large sections of Hope Valley.

Excellent! Best laugh I've had since the City of Truro in BR black spoof had purists spilling their tea over their digestives as they had coronaries! The Pennines aren't exactly the Alps are they? Woodhead Pass it may be, but it's a world away from the Gotthard.

I heard that First pulled out, then no one else wanted to run it? Did they just gift it to First in the end?

And to think-barely 25yrs agio, none of the above had any light rail. There was only really DLR & Tyne & Wear for a,long time. As for Metrobus-well it had better deliver, otherwise it'll stifle any further attempt for years. Have they got an operator for it yet?

To all intents and purposes, those areas are effectively in Bristol. The stupidity of it is that I live in Downend, just on the border with Fishponds. I am in Bristol by the width of a street. My nearest Sort It tip is Mangotsfield, but as a Bristol council tax payer, I have to go into the city to St Phillips, much less convenient, further away and more congested. I suspect both are managed by the same company, and the waste goes to the same landfill & recycling plants! I wonder, going OT slightly, & referencing the Reversing Beeching topic elsewhere, whether this fragmentation is partially responsible for the slower progress in reopening/building new railways in England, compared to Scotland/Wales?