YesTor

Hmmmm, after a little online searching for photographs, am I correct in thinking that these units are predominantly northern-based? The majority of liveries appear to be either Scotrail, Northern Rail, Strathclyde etc. Okay, I see that there are also some in East Midlands Trains, Anglian liveries etc, but I'm thinking more Southern or/and Western regions, or even London Midland City etc. Does anyone know if these units have appeared in any liveries suitable for the more southern/south-west/south-eastern areas of England? thanks

Sure, it's great when they manage to glue everything in straight! Not so hot when they don't...

Hornby appear to have changed the lamp hooks on recent releases of the 60 from the finer etched/metal strip type to chunkier plastic mouldings, which I agree seem to be a step backwards as they appear quite chunky and oversize and not to mention FRAGILE - one was half broken off when my Drax 60 arrived, along with the horizontal handrails on the cab front. Similar assembly issues too with a model of 60090 that I bought - handrails broken or missing and windscreen wipers for some reason glued-in pointing skyward. It's the small things like this that spoil what is otherwise a great model. A chimpanzee wearing a blindfold could have done a better job of assembly.

Hmmm, is 08202 in BR Blue typical of an example from the early-70's I presume? And if so are there any notable differences between this example and a typical example from the mid-80's? The only (cosmetic) difference I can see is the red wheel rods, as all photos I can find seem to have BR Blue 08s with yellow rods.

I was thinking the same. I was gonna say if those are new pictures then there's still something about the bogies that doesn't look quite right.

No surprises there then!

I guess it's only condescending if you choose to read it that way? That certainly wasn't the intention, instead I was merely stating a fact. So apologies if you read it that way. However, what I do fail to understand is how often people manage to conclude that simply because a model is half the length it should therefore be half the price? I could understand if we were talking about sacks of potatoes, or anything else sold by weight/volume, but we aren't. Maybe the snowplough carries far more detail, or will comprise many more individual parts? With all due respect, for someone who supposedly "knows how much it costs to tool up a new model" I would have thought these were obvious factors? Anyhow, this "fanboy" will politely leave you to it. cheers

Precisely. If you don't consider said model value for money, or justifiable at the price then as with anything in life the answer is simple... go without!

Hmmm, this has been covered many times before, okay yes, however the Hornby model is shamefully toy-like by today's standards, and I would have guessed only really suitable for the train set market. The term "comparing apples with oranges" springs to mind...

The cost/retail price of the models has been predicted to be around the £150 mark. I can understand your logic however, just a thought, but have you considered that if research, development and production of the model were to be funded via the 'traditional' way that the final retail price for such a high-specification model produced in what must be relatively small quantities (in relation to perhaps any model from the larger manufacturers, ie. Hornby, Bachmann etc) might well prove to be far higher than the anticipated £150? Another alternative, of course, is that we don't get a model of the 92 at all...

Great news!

One power car to the NRM - indeed, you would think that they would learn - it will be a repeat of the prototype HST whereby in 20 or 30 years time they will wish they'd have preserved a pair...

Wow! Looks stunning. I'm most definitely down for a rake of these please in Lafarge livery. As someone above mentioned how about a pack of three or four with different running numbers? Another question - I realize that there are quite a variety of the PGA wagon, so I'm curious if you would at any point produce the type in ECC Quarries livery... http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/procorpga/h3e1f7e80#h3e1f7e80 I currently have around thirty of the Hornby version which I'm literally about to upgrade, however I'm now wondering if it will be worth it if a far superior version is on-the-cards, so to speak... Either way, good luck with the project.

I appreciate that different businesses may operate differently, however at the end of the day Dapol is the customer in this scenario. I too regularly manufacture goods overseas for my own business (alas not model railways); however if, as in your potential scenario above, the "production model is incorrect" then I have a simple remedy, and that is, I don't pay the invoice for the goods until myself, the customer, am satisfied with the final product! Additionally, and importantly, if I, as the customer quietly accept any errors delivered then in the longer run I do myself no favours, as in effect I have already relayed the unspoken message that I will effectively allow myself to be trampled on and accept any old tat that is delivered and not utter a word of complaint. From my own experience and self-awareness, I readily admit that in my own line of business some may find my manner objectionable, and indeed it's fair to say that when my supplier/manufacturer makes a glaring mistake, believe me they will generally know about it! Difficult to please you may say, however I stand by my point that I am the customer and I'm paying, so I expect the job done right. No more, no less. And in this scenario Dapol should indeed be doing the same, and if for some reason they feel they are unable to raise valid issues then maybe they are working with the wrong manufacturer... Of course, we are drawing many assumptions from the above, as it may well likely be Dapol themselves that made the error by submitting incorrect drawings, livery spec or whatever; in which instance Dapol would have no grounds to argue. Alas, I guess that is something we shall never know...

Apologies, typo, I actually should have typed bazjones1711 as opposed to Jintyman. I have edited previous my post accordingly. As for making a point "in context", with all due respect, I feel that maybe you ought to review your own initial argument, in that your prognosis was based on me supposedly "wanting a perfect model at a bargain basement price", when in actual fact I have made no mention whatsoever anywhere in this thread with regard to wanting anything at any given price. At no point have I stated whether I feel the price to be too high, too low, or otherwise. My point was/is with the VERY BASIC matter of either painting a grille BLACK or YELLOW. This kind of issue, as others have highlighted, comes down to basic errors in or lack of communication, failure to check samples etc, or someone somewhere effectively being 'half asleep on-the job'. I fail to see any relevance to price, "bargain basement" or otherwise, within my argument.

These new models are absolutely beautifully printed, however yes, the Bachmann 66 is definitely showing its age and looking a tad 'Railroad' by today's standards.

Bargain basement rate? *cough* I repeat - How much more expensive is it to paint the grilles the correct colour?! We are talking about the difference between painting a grill BLACK or YELLOW. Quantum mechanics this is not. As bazjones1711 also highlighted, there are thousands of photos of Class 08s out there at the click of a mouse, and I'm yet to see one with a black grille surround. Absolutely agree with this sentiment. Bargain basement price or not, these are are schoolboy errors that not even a schoolboy would make.

In fairness to Dapol, having viewed the pre-production prototype when it first appeared I wouldn't say that these are in any way "cheap 'n' cheerful", if anything quite the opposite in fact, with some very impressive detail included on the model. I'm a 4mm scale modeller and as a rule no way interested in 7mm scale, however I convinced myself that I would buy myself a Dapol 08 simply on the basis of how impressive the pre-production model appeared, and also the fact that I like the Class 08's. Agreed. Really this isn't about "wanting our cake and eating it", more to the point it's about getting very basic things right. How much more expensive is it to paint the grilles the correct colour?! There are no excuses for glaringly simple errors such as this. And as for me now buying one of these, well, following the Dapol Class 73 livery circus I'm feeling a tad "once bitten, twice shy", so in short, my money is staying firmly in my pocket until they get the livery correct on this one too. If that means waiting for a later edition then so be it.

I would like to order more than one, however I haven't decided on whether I will go for DCC sound or DCC ready. Is there any indication of price for either, and are these definite orders, or would it be possible to change later on? thank you

Great news! 92023 & 92030 are immediately interesting. I realize that it's perhaps early to ask this question, but will these come with nameplates already fitted? If so it will make either difficult for renumbering. However, if nameplates are supplied unfitted as would be preferable (just my opinion, before anyone shoots me down in flames), then I can see myself being interested in a couple of each of the grey examples. Curious that no original grey examples are listed and as someone else pointed out Grey with EWS Beastie logo. Or perhaps they will be for a later batch? Either way, great news and very much look forward to progress.

Interpret my comment as you will, and apologies if you interpret it as you have outlined, however, my point was simply that plastic fittings for the most-part take on a 'toylike' appearance. Just my opinion. Likewise. This is turning into one of those topics that goes around-and-around in circles. At the end of the day it's great news that a Class 92 is being produced and I will definitely be signing up for a couple. The very best of luck to Dave with the project.

They've been available for a good few years! You snooze, you lose...

Unless I'm misundertanding your comment there seems to be a glaring contradiction in, "I don't really see how taking three times longer to do the production would triple cost... although clearly the production time will influence the cost." My line of thinking is that if, for the sake of argument, you have to pay your production line staff for thirty hours work as opposed to ten hours work then there is your obvious threefold increase in production costs?

For the same reason that there are manufacturers out there who specialise in producing brass and etched metal detailing parts, as generally speaking metal parts add a far superior appearance than the often poorly moulded plastic equivalent. I thought I was alone in thinking that the Hornby Class 60 plastic horns are perhaps the weakest feature of an otherwise superb model - almost always glued in at strange angles and snap off as soon as you touch them, it's incredibly rare to find a secondhand model with the horns still intact. While on the subject, does anyone know who might produce suitable brass diesel horns? I purchased some sets of the Markits diesel horns and while okay for Class 37 etc they seem to be too small for the Class 60. The plastic cabside handrails on the Hornby 60 are also a little annoying, as they almost always bow in the middle and often include an unsightly moulding pimple. Agree totally. I guess some people simply don't appreciate these finer touches that all contribute to differentiate a 'model' from simply being a 'toy'.

Photographs of painted samples of the MJA twins now up on the Dapol forum. Looking tasty!