tiger

Fantastic, thanks very much for the list Dave - looks like I have a couple of pre-orders to cancel but a whole lot more to make! Cheers Tom.

Hi all DapolDave's imminent clarification is welcome and will hopefully clear up some other questions, for example, whether any executive or INTERCITY livery TF will be produced, and whether any further HST blue-grey firsts and seconds will be produced to match the current bookset. Thanks in advance Dave. As to whether "the market support two similar though not identical blue and grey buffets in N gauge? If the hard economics say No then would we rather have one which will be correct for some but not all scenarios, or none at all?" - only Dapol has the numbers, but I would guess that most people who have purchased a WR 253 or ER 254 in blue-grey would buy one buffet, and there might be a few more freaks like me out there who plan to model a TRSB/TRUK pairing, who will buy two buffets per set! Hopefully that would be sufficient demand for a specific HST blue grey buffet, with no buffers and the correct grey band livery application for an HST, even if it has the RFM window layout. After all, Dapol has already produced blue-grey firsts and seconds with both the HST and loco haul versions of the livery. I will now await DapolDave's clarified list of models with interest. By the way, in case anybody hadn't guessed, I think the Dapol Mk3's are great models - about 20 in the loft so far - so keep up the good work Dapol! Cheers Tom

Sorry for the long explanation of prototype detail differences...got a bit carried away there. My understanding re catalogue numbers is that Dapol originally planned to produce two blue-grey Mk3 buffets - NC055C (no buffers) for the HST and NC054C (with buffers), the loco-hauled version. Mid-year last year, with the release of the new catalogue, a lot of catalogue numbers were changed for previously announced, but not yet released items. Only one Mk3 buffet in blue-grey was listed in the new catalogue - NC216A - and it was not specified whether this had buffers, or not. Perhaps the new listings on Hattons' website clears this up - 2P-005-010 being the HST version (no buffers, ex NC055C) and NC216A being the loco hauled/buffers version. No idea why NC054C is also listed - likely a mistake on Hattons part as you suggest. As for the price difference, I haven't a clue - but Hattons have had two near-identical Mk 3a blue grey open seconds available for several months now with a £4 difference - NC052f at £20 and NC068c at £16 - the only difference I can see is the running number. It would be great to know exactly what really is going to be produced by Dapol so we can all pre-order the right items - I, for one, have pre-ordered two NC216A from another online retailer to go with the new blue-grey East Coast HST, but perhaps I am going to end up with two Wrexham and Shropshire era RFMs! Cheers Tom

Hi all There are a number of detail differences between the loco-hauled and HST versions besides the presence or absence of buffers. The main differences are in window layout, especially on the kitchen side, but as far as we know Dapol have already decided to only produce the RFM, which is a loco-hauled Mk3a vehicle. So, accepting that the window layout will be wrong for the HST versions, the other main difference between HST and loco-hauled Mk 3 catering vehicles is that the application of Blue-Grey livery was different on HSTs. The main differences are: a narrower rail grey band around the windows on hst trailers; broader red (catering) or yellow (first class) cantrail band on HST trailers than on loco hauled stock; white lining between grey and blue areas curves round onto end doors and runs vertically, parallel to gangway on loco-hauled but is cut off at the gangway end of the door on HST stock (difficult to explain - see photo links below). A loco-hauled blue-grey Mk3a in an HST will stick out as non-matching because of these livery differences. There were also differences in branding depending on the vehicle in question: Mk 3a RUB (loco hauled, 3 large saloon windows per side, number range 100xx): "Restaurant-Buffet" Mk 3a RFM (loco hauled, 4 large saloon windows, number range 102xx), as repainted by Cargo-D: "Restaurant-Buffet" or "InterCity Restaurant-Buffet" Mk 3 TRSB (HST buffet, 4 large saloon windows, number range 400xx, later 404xx) originally "Buffet", later, from around 1979, "Buffet-Bar 125" Mk 3 TRUK (HST kitchen, 4 large saloon windows, 405xx) originally "Restaurant", later "Restaurant 125" from around 1979 Mk 3 TRUB/TRFB (HST kitchen buffet, 3 large saloon windows, 403xx and 407xx) "Restaurant-Buffet 125" Here are some pictures which show the differences: Mk 3 TRUK in an HST, kitchen side: http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3900183338/ Mk 3a RFM kitchen side (loco hauled): http://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/6448899637/ Mk 3 HST (left) and Mk 3a loco hauled (right) vehicle coupled whilst on test, showing differing width of rail grey bands: http://www.traintesting.com/images/Mk3-coach-SIG_bogie.jpg Given these differences in livery application, it would be reasonable for Dapol to produce two Blue-Grey buffets, one for the HST and one for loco hauled rakes. Perhaps Dave could give us some clarification? Incidentally, the MK 3a RFM vehicles never wore blue-grey livery when operated by BR as the type didn't exist until the mid 1980s - the original loco hauled Mk3a was the RUB, which had only three large saloon windows. All of these RUB, plus some HST TRUK and Mk 3a FO, were converted to RFM with four large saloon windows from around 1986, outshopped in Executive or INTERCITY livery. Only in the last few years have a few RFM been outshopped in blue-grey, by Cargo-D, and subsequently used by Wrexham and Shropshire. Hope this helps. Tom

Hi all Sorry to repeat a previously asked (but as yet not answered) question - are there plans for Dapol to produce any Mk 3 first class HST trailers in IC swallow or executive liveries? I have HST booksets in Executive and IC swallow livery purchased mail order, new, from a major retailer in the UK, and delivered to Australia. The executive bookset contains two TS coaches in INTERCITY (italicised) livery, both numbered 42284. From what I can see on many websites the bookset usually comes with one TS 42284 and one TF 41029 so I am not quite sure why mine has two TS! I had planned to use the two IC swallow TF, one from each book set, in the same rake but I am now one TF short. I'd also like to build up an 8 car ECML rake with Executive "InterCity 125" branding, so I'd like to have an idea how many of the currently available executive liveried TS to order - four, or six, including two to be renumbered/rebranded as TF? (Assuming a catering vehicle and TGS are produced as planned) Thanks for your help Tom.

During its final year of operation (?1990), the Clansman stock was further downgraded to mainly non-aircon Mk 2c TSOs still in blue/grey. This train was obviously no longer regarded as a flagship InterCity service! When the ECML electrification went live in 1991, the resulting cascade of HST's enabled the remaining Mk 2d FK and BFK, and the remaining non aircon Mk 2c stock being used by InterCity sector, to be withdrawn. By then the Clansman was truncated in Edinburgh but still went through to Inverness in peak seasons - e.g. Christmas. As MIchael states, the train would use a standard WCML fixed-formation rake. I'm sure these were sometimes formed entirely of Mk 3 stock and I also believe they also included the Mk 3 DVT - a long way from their usual territory up in the Scottish Highlands! Cheers, Tom.