tiger

Hi all. I’ve taken delivery of some of the latest Farish Mk2 coach releases, specifically: 374-996 Graham Farish N Gauge BR Mk2 TSO & Mk1 BG 2-Coach Pack 374-712 BR Mk2A TSO Tourist Second Open BR Regional Railways The overall standard of livery application is excellent. However, I was disappointed to discover that they are fitted with moulded plastic wheel sets mounted on pinpoint metal axles. The moulding appears to be neatly done and the wheels run true. This seems to me to be a retrograde step in quality, especially given the ever increasing price of new models. Would this be regarded as acceptable in larger scales such as OO or O? Or, am I thinking about this the wrong way - perhaps the price would be even more expensive if metal wheel sets were supplied, as per previous releases, and this is a necessary cost-control measure. What do people think? Cheers Tom.

Nice work. I've thought about doing the cut'n'shut but would imagine it would be very hard to achieve a neat result in N / 2mm. Made harder, as you say, by the all in one bodyshell and roof moulding. What did you use to make the corridor insert? I used plastic strip for a Mk2d FK, but a pre-made corridor partition would have been much easier. Cheers Tom.

Looks great. Always seems odd to me that Farish have included tables in the interiors of these coaches - I think in the real thing tables were removable and might have been used for dining. I never remember seeing one in place though.

Hi @37176 While researching Mk2 coaches in RR ScotRail livery (see Regional Railways ScotRail Mk2 formations 1992-1993 thread) I found out the following which might partly answer your question. The Platform 5 "Locomotives and Coaching Stock" book for 1992 p117 has a colour picture of Mk2 TSO 5226 in NSE with what is stated to be a dark grey stripe, but looks like dark blue to me. It has the SCOTRAIL name in Regional Railways font under the first window on the left (looking side onto the vehicle with the non-toilet end on the left hand side) with a small BR arrow logo to the right, separated by a space. I don't want to breach copyright by posting the picture here. The book has a livery code "NS" which the following explanation: Network SouthEast modified by Scotrail (grey/white/dark grey/white/blue/white). I always thought rail blue was used to paint over the NSE red but maybe it was dark grey after all. The following vehicles are listed in "NS" livery in the 1992 book (i.e. would likely have been in traffic in this livery during 1991): Mk2 TSO AC2Z: 5161, 5167, 5173, 5177, 5183, 5186, 5194, 5198, 5209, 5225, 5226 Mk2a BFK AB1A: 17064, 17089, 17091 All of these vehicles are listed as Regional Railways livery in the 1993 edition of the same book. There are no Mk2a TSO listed in NSE ScotRail livery - only vacuum braked stock was cascaded to ScotRail from NSE, so all of the ScotRail ex NSE TSO's were early Mk2 (Mk2z). The ex NSE Mk2a TSO (air braked) went to Regional Railways North West. The Mk2a BFK's transferred to ScotRail had previously been converted from air to vacuum brakes. The Mk2a BSK you mention (35500, ex BFK 17094) is listed in NSE livery allocated to Derby in the 1991 book, and still in NSE livery allocated to Liverpool Edge Hill in the 1992 book. It is still listed as NSE livery, but allocated to Inverness, in the 1993 edition. No mention of the ScotRail version of this livery. I don't know how reliable the livery information in these books really is - for example Mk2 BFK 17042 is listed without a livery code in the 1991 book implying blue/grey livery, but there are several photos elsewhere of it in INTERCITY charter livery with white roof in 1989. Hope this helps. Tom.

Thanks Keefer, very interesting. Always sobering to see how much railway infrastructure has been removed, even at fairly minor locations like Ladybank.

Forgive me replying to my own post. I see there are no replies so far, so perhaps this topic does not ignite much interest. However! I may have worked out the identity of the RR SCOTRAIL Mk2 TSO with the unpainted aluminium window ventilators, so I'm going to post my deductions here so they may be found by other interested parties in future. I had another look at the video of 37428 with its train in 1993 - the coach with the unpainted ventilators is the last coach. It's not possible to read the number properly even in slow motion or frame by frame...but the shape of the numbers is almost discernible. But looking again at the video, the TSO in question has yellow painted entrance vestibules visible through the door droplights, whereas all of the other coaches are dark - presumably the original varnished wood veneer. Back in the 1980s many of the Inverness-based Mk2 TSOs had their vestibules painted bright yellow in an attempt to modernise them - perhaps an attempt to copy the look of Mk3 coaches. Could it be that this coach was an originally Inverness-based vehicle, whereas the other TSOs were transferred in eg. from NSE. This would also explain the need to paint the window ventilators, as they had tended to be painted blue in NSE livery. Looking at the 1992 "Platform 5" Locomotives and Coaching Stock book, only 5 Mk2 TSO are listed as what was noted as "RS" livery (Regional Stripes) - these are 5157, 5159, 5174, 5179, 5184. Looking back at previous editions reveals the following histories for each vehicle: 5157: 1991 NSE livery, Sector code PISX, Depot IS (Inverness); 1990 NSE NWRX OM (Old Oak Common) 5157: 1991 NSE, PISX, IS; 1990 NSE NWRX OM 5174: 1991 blue/grey PISX, IS; 1990 blue/grey PISX IS 5179: 1991 NSE PLLX LL (Liverpool Edge Hill); 1990 NSE NWRX OM 5184: 1991 NSE PISX IS; 1990 NWRX OM 5174 looks like the best candidate to me as an Inverness-based coach painted in RR livery in 1992, but always previously based at Inverness. Looking again at the video the blurry number has the right shape for 5174. Finally the The Railway Heritage Register Carriage Survey Project shows that 5174 is now preserved at the Northampton and Lamport railway. Three photos of the coach show it in maroon livery...but with unpainted aluminium window ventilators, and with yellow vestibules. I was originally trying to deduce the formation of the train hauled by D5300 and D5301 on 23 August, 1992. I will make a guess that the above 5 coaches were the TSOs in this train and will have to guess the identity of the BFK (could be 17064, 17068, 17089, 17090, 17091 or 17099 according to 1993 Platform 5)...unless anyone out there knows better. I realise I have used flawed logic here - I have identified 5 coaches painted in the relevant livery at the time of publication of the 1992 book, i.e. towards the start of the year, and I’m looking at a train formation in August 1992, by which time more coaches may have been painted. Nevertheless, I hope this is of interest to some. Tom.

Thanks @Bon Accordfor the location ID’s. Looks like it was probably only 3 tracks at the time I took the photo and from Google Maps is now just effectively a two track passing loop. It’s interesting to trace the formation into Ladybank Station - the layout with the single lead junction junction means that both north and southbound trains using the Perth line will have to use the northbound platform at Ladybank, as the crossover is south of the station. Must be confusing for southbound passengers knowing which platform to use!

Another question relating to ScotRail excursions in 1992 (see separate Regional Railways ScotRail Mk2 formations 1992-1993 thread). On 30 August 1992, ScotRail ran a circular tour hauled by preserved A4 60009 "Union of South Africa" from Edinburgh - Forth Bridge - Ladybank - Perth - Stirling - Edinburgh. This train: https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/90s/920830sc.htm. I don't think the tour was very well promoted as The Scotsman newspaper were giving away free tickets the day before the tour. I should know - I took up the offer and went on the train! The post is to find out if anyone has recorded the coaching stock formation? It looks to be something like: 60009 - Mk1 BSK support coach - Mk2 TSO x4, Mk2/2a BFK - ??? UID vehicle in maroon. This is a great picture of the train by Keith Sanders passing Blackford: (Flickr link) I took a few pictures myself but didn't record the formation. 60009 during the layover at Perth: The train at Gleneagles (thanks Bon Accord for the correct location): Supplementary question: My Dad took these two photos out of an open window, featuring the back of my head in the droplight in front! Can anyone help identify the location? There's a foot crossing in the first image and a distinctive water tower in the second image, plus 4 parallel tracks. From memory I thought this was on the return from Perth, but given that the coach in front of me looks like the BFK and its near the front of the train this may be on the outbound leg from Edinburgh-Ladybank-Perth. It also shows quite well the white wraparound stickers which were applied to the carriage droplights to stop people sticking their heads out... (edit…thanks again to Bon Accord for confirming the location as Ladybank, Northbound after diverging on the line to Perth.) Final question: At Stirling, this gent stood in front of 60009 for an inordinate amount of time having his picture taken. I assumed he must have been an important figure in the preservation world, but maybe he just liked to have his photo taken! Can anyone help solve the mystery? Mods, please let me know if I need to remove this picture. Thanks in advance for any help. Tom.

Hi all, This is a bit of a long shot. I'm trying to track down some formations of the Regional Railways "SCOTRAIL" branded early Mk2 coaches from the class 37/4 Highland Enterprise and Young Explorer era, which I think was 1992-93 or early 1994. These were generally early Mk2 TSO (Mk2z), early Mk2z 91xx BSO(T), and a few Mk2 and vacuum braked Mk2a BFK. The platform 5 books of the era have numbers of the individual carriages painted in this livery. I have worked out so far that the Edinburgh-Inverness trains were generally formed TSO-TSO-BFK-TSO-TSO (and sometimes with a 6th TSO). I am looking for a couple of extra specific pieces of information and so have a couple of questions! 1. Which trains carried a BSO(T) - was this the West Highland line Young Explorer train, or the Far North/Kyle line trains? 2. Does anybody know the formation of the ScotRail operated Day Excursion which operated on 23 August 1992, from Edinburgh - Oban and return, which was the first outing of class 26 locomotives D5300 and D5301 (26007/26001) restored to green livery? This train: https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/90s/920823sc.htm Flickr link (photo by trevor plackett): The formation is TSO-TSO-BFK-TSO-TSO-TSO. The livery application of coach 4 (TSO behind the BFK) was slightly different to the others with unpainted aluminium window ventilators - I'm trying to work out the identity of this coach. It (or another similarly painted coach, but to make like easy I'll assume there was only one!) appears in this video as the last vehicle in the train shown from 8:15 onwards: 3. Also in this video, the first TSO behind the loco appears to be branded "REGIONAL RAILWAYS" rather than "SCOTRAIL" - can anyone identify this coach? Thanks in advance for any info! Tom.

Thanks, that’s very helpful.

Looking forward to receiving my 321 in NSE and 320 in Strathclyde Orange soon! Quick question. I part paid for these several years ago. What is the process for paying the outstanding balance - do I need to log into the RevolutioN website to do this or do I need to wait for an invoice (or similar) to be sent out to me first? Thanks for clarifying Tom.

Following on from my previous post here are a few more photos - as with the previous post these are not my original photos and copyright remains with the original photographers. 43056 (formerly of set 254001) with nose end numbers in 1984. I've also noticed that the bodyside numbers are black in this photo whereas usually they were white in Blue/Grey livery which was hard to read on the yellow background: 43086 with nose end numbers in 1984: There's a few other interesting HST pics on Flickr from this era. In my previous post I confidently stated that it was unlikely that the initial WR Executive liveried sets worked on the ECML (set no.s 253 028, 253 030, power car numbers 43125, 43126, 43129, 43130, 43151). Then I found this photo at Newcastle in March 1985. From the application of the Executive livery (yellow extending across the radiator grille, outline stencil lettering for "InterCity 125") this must be 43125, 43126 or 43151. The adjacent TF is 41164 with a just about legible "PM" depot allocation sticker. In 1986 this was part of set 253 048, one of the North East/South West sets (41164, 40429, 42096, 42097, 42098, 42099, 44081 - hence the appearance of this WR power car in Newcastle. After the TRSB/TRUK combinations were replaced by TRUB in 1985, the remaining kitchen cars were only routinely allocated to the sets for the Yorkshire Pullman and Tees/Tyne Pullman. The usual formation was TF TF TRFK TF TRFB TS TS TGS - later augmented to nine cars with an extra TS, like this: And this: But there are also photos of the Pullman HSTs with the TRFB and TRFKs marshalled together, without a TF in between, like this (TF TF TRFK TRFB TS TS TS TGS): And this (my own picture for a change): Having checked various Platform 5 and Ian Allan Combined volumes from the period in question I think the Tees-Tyne Pullman may have been formed as a 9 car HST from an earlier date than the Yorkshire Pullman. Others may have better knowledge than me! Hope this is of interest, Tom.

Sorry for the slow reply but hopefully the following is still useful. To hopefully answer your questions: (Photos are Flickr links and not my originals - credit remains with original photographers) 1. I think it is safe to say that the coaching stock of the TRUK/TRSB sets would have all been in Blue/Grey during 1984 and early 1985. The first two HST sets painted into Executive Livery were Western Regions sets 253028 (43125, 43126 and spare 43151) and 253030 (43129, 43130) which were 7 coach TRUB sets painted in late 1983. Both of these sets had detail differences in application of the Executive livery compared to what became the standard livery, and being allocated to the WR it is extremely unlikely that they ever ventured onto the ECML, let alone to Inverness. During 1984 the only other HST coach painted in Executive livery was the InterCity Executive Saloon, TLUK ex TRUK 40513. It wasn't until early 1985 that the first refurbished HST sets began to appear from Derby in Executive livery from the main HST refurbishment programme, that took until 1991 to complete. Here is what may be the first Executive Livery HST set on the ECML in March 1985 with 43085 at the head. The formation is just visible as TGS, 4xTS and vehicle 6 just under the bridge is a catering vehicle - ie this is a TRUB (or possibly by then TRFB) set: 43085 in the paint shop at Derby in February 1985: If the date is correct it would seem that 43082 was another early recipient of Executive livery: It is not impossible that an Executive liveried power car was allocated to a TRUK set between February and April/May 1985, when the last TRSB/TRUK sets were disbanded but I haven't seen a picture. Here are two pictures of TRUK sets in 1985, both with blue/grey power cars. It may be more accurate to call them TRFK sets, as both of the kitchen cars in these photos now feature the yellow first class stripe: 11 March 1985: 17 March 1985. In the description on Flickr this has been captioned as a TRFK/TRFB set covering the Tees/Tyne Pullman but the window arrangements of the catering vehicles are consistent with TRFK/TRSB (4 saloon windows on each catering vehicle): To answer question 2 - as per the above pictures the most common arrangement in 1985 was to have no nose end numbers at all. I'm pretty certain the 254xxx numbers had all been removed by about 1983. Some Blue/Grey power cars had the 43xxx number applied to the nose end - either on the emergency coupling panel (where the previous 254xxx number was located) or less commonly just above the horn grille (black font on yellow). I might post photos in a separate post if I can find any. Hope that helps. Tom.

The answer is yes (Flickr link - not my original photo): Nice work on the improved livery John and @Kaolin2FS. The aluminium window frames make such a difference. I’m not sure I could do that neatly myself. Is there scope for a transfer to achieve this effect?

How easy was it to get the INTERCITY logo and numbers off? What method did you use?

D5829 was renumbered to 31296 so the picture shows 5829, 5830 and 5831 consecutively. Spooky numerology! Cheers, Tom.

Thanks for the pics @Commoner. I totally agree that the saloon end gangway doors of catering vehicles were yellow. It's hard to tell from the attached TRUB pics about the gangway doors, as they are in the open position, but it does suggest that the gangway bellows were yellow on the inside at the buffet / kitchen end. My memory is that the gangway doors were orange like the vestibule and buffet counter area - with a yellow gangway interior. If someone could come up with a pristine as-new shot of the buffet / kitchen end, like your shot of 40011, that would solve the problem! In my own photos I have a shot of a TGS from the van end, but the gangway doors are open and in shade. There is a hint of yellow which I'd guess is the inside of the gangway rather than the doors. Interestingly it's one of the TGS which were fitted with buffers for use with Class 91 locomotives in 1989. Shot taken at Edinburgh Waverley on 23 August 1992 during a power car swap on a Kings Cross-Aberdeen working: Thanks again for the pics. If anyone else has any new or ex-works pics of the van end of a TGS, or the buffet kitchen end of a catering vehicle, that would be great. Cheers Tom.

Hi all I'm trying to work out the original colour of the folding gangway doors of Mk3 HST stock and Mk3a hauled coaches. The obvious answer to this question is "yellow" but I don't think this applied to all coaches. I'm pretty certain that all of the Mk3 HST stock and Mk3a hauled stock first and second class vehicles had yellow gangway doors - ie coach types TS, TF, FO and TSO. I'm also pretty certain that the gangway doors of Mk3a Sleepers were originally light orange (lighter than the dark orange of Mk2d gangway doors). What about the TGS (guard's accommodation/van end) and catering vehicles? I think that the TGS may have had light grey gangway doors and that catering vehicles were orange (Mk2d style) at the kitchen/buffet end but can't find any good pictures online of these vehicles in original condition. I'm 99% sure that the TRSB and TRUB/TRFB types had orange coloured two part sliding doors, rather than the fold-back type of the passenger saloons. What about the kitchen end of a TRUK - which didn't have a buffet counter and therefore wouldn't have needed the 70's orange bar "ambience"? To add to the confusion the gangway bellows themselves changed over the years during production of Mk3 coaches. Originally these were light grey foam on the prototype, like this. Production Mk3a coaches had a black foam gangway. These were all eventually replaced by gangway bellows like those on HST stock following a fire at Cadder in 1983. The standard HST gangway is shown in this picture (note the experimental BT35 bogies). The HST style gangways were yellow on the inside, whereas the foam type were grey or black. Did any of the Mk 3a coaches, or HST trailers receive the grey foam type gangway as per the prototype (and as originally modeled by Jouef on their OO model.) As a supplementary question, what colour was the inside of the gangway bellows on HST TGS coaches, and on the kitchen end of the catering vehicles? Yellow as per a standard Mk3 gangway bellows, or grey / orange to match the gangway doors? Any photos or answers gratefully received! Sorry for the esoteric nature of the questions... I will also cross-post this to Robert Carroll's groups.io BR Coaching Stock group. Cheers Tom.

I've found a couple of pics online - links below. Mk 2c FO 3155 is being restored by James Steward and friends. (Mid Norfolk Railway?) Its restored interior is the same as a 1980s Mk 2e FO. Here is a Facebook link to a photo - look at all those orange and brown stripes! Looks like the table tops are the same shade as the end bulkhead ie. a cream colour rather than white. In the British Rail Mark 2 Coaches book @Flood is referencing, there are two black and white photos of the Mk2e FO interior: original, and after the early 80s refurbishment. The table tops look white in both black and white photos; maybe they were actually cream, but look white in the B+W image? In the original interior there was wood veneer on the end bulkheads as well as the carriage sidewalls; the end bulkheads changed to white or cream after refurbishment. The carpet changed too; in the refurbished coach it is striped to match the stripey seat moquette. I also found a Mk2e TSO original interior photo as preserved at the Dean Forest railway. The photo dates from 2007. I don't know if this coach is still preserved in this condition. Neither of these are my original images hence I've added links but not embedded the images. In the late 80s some of the Mk2d and Mk2e TSO and BSO had a further refurbishment, with a dark grey moquette and dark grey table tops (both a similar shade to Executive Dark Grey). These coaches retained their wood veneer paneling. I'd guess from memory that these started appearing around 1988. Some, but not all of the Mk 2d and 2e used by InterCity Cross Country had this refurbishment. I remember them from the Edinburgh/Glasgow portion workings via Carstairs. Can anyone find a picture of this interior online - I've searched and drawn a blank? Hope this helps and is of interest. Cheers Tom.

Such a weird and wonderful selection of stock - Mk1 suburban stock with a GWR? or Stanier BG? Was this departmental stock - does anyone have any ideas? Cheers Tom.

+1 to hoping these will use the HST-P roof and that it will also be available as a spare part. For what its worth these are the suggestions I posted on the Dapol Digest: Mk 3a coaches with the correct 3 Roe-Vac roof vents (as per the Prototype HST MK 3 coach roof, released last year) Mk 3b Pullman FO coaches in Executive Livery with names (+1 to @chriswrightmk and his post from 2019) - the HST style Mk 3 coach roof with a single square vent at each end would be correct for these coaches Blue/Grey and Executive Liveries with the "Inter-City" or "InterCity" branding in the correct location this time, higher up the bodyside than previous releases? Correct width red and white stripes on the Executive and Swallow Liveries, as per the most recent release of HST trailers? Another run of Mk 3a loco hauled RFM coaches based on actual protoype photos this time e.g. 10200 or 10201 in Executive livery, branded "InterCity Restaurant Buffet" like this https://flic.kr/p/4N36Qt and this https://flic.kr/p/Hzbuon; and perhaps a blue/grey example based on one of the Cargo-D or preserved examples, like this (flickr photo - not my original) Mk 3a coach roofs with the correct 3 Roe-Vac roof vents available separately as spare parts, in appropriate colours to match previous loco haul released coaches Fingers crossed that the next production run incorporates at least some of these ideas - a little attention to detail with the livery application could transform these models. Cheers, Tom.

Hey Brian I suspect that 26008 was never fitted with slow speed control. Thanks for looking up the extra details. Cheers Tom.

Thanks for your several extremely detailed and interesting posts! I have a question about the slow speed fitted locomotives. The slow speed control class 26s are listed in most books as D5300-5306 which became 26001-26007 (I think D5300 was 26007 not D5307 as in the quote below, as D5307 became 26020). Yet in the 1980s, 26008 was also included in what became the "Railfreight Coal, Lothians" subsector pool and was painted in Railfreight Coal livery like 26001-26007. Picture here (Flickr link - not my original photo). Was 26008 also eventually fitted with slow speed control and the spotting books (platform 5 / Ian Allan ABC) weren't updated, or was 26008 always paired with and controlled by another locomotive with slow speed control on MGR workings? Does anybody know? I agree with you that 20227 always seemed to have a special place amongst the MGR class 20s and seemed to be the one I saw most often. I grew up not far from the Edinburgh South Suburban Railway which was where I most frequently saw these trains, but had no idea as a kid why some of the workings had pairs of 20s and others pairs of class 26 - now I know! By the time I was old enough to ride my bike out to Millerhill to see more of these trains in the early 90s, the 20s and 26s had been demoted to departmental work or withdrawn and the MGRs were in the hands of Toton based class 56s which seemed very exotic at the time. Thanks again for the details and for re-igniting the memories. Tom.

Those etches look really good, Steve. Is there a possibility if any Mk2 or Mk3 coach etches? In particular: the early Mk2 FK, which has numerous detail differences from the Mk2a FK including a different, more square window shape with 4 part sliding ventilators (Bachmann got the proportions wrong in the 00 version) and a different level to the horizontal divider on the toilet window Like this one (Flickr link - not my original photo) Mk3 HST catering vehicle sides - the TRUB would be most useful but TRSB and TRUK I’m sure would be of interest to some Just a thought - I’d buy some! If they could be designed to replace the flat area of body side above the tumblehome if might make installation easier. Tom.

Could be! At the time it seemed like a great idea to keep my "Combined Volumes" right up to date with changes in depot allocations, livery, set formations and withdrawals etc - but now I wish I had an unadulterated one without all of my editing. Thanks very much for checking.