Bob Reid

Here you go Dave http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=13456

Both of you Russ and Hammer, have lost me (not particularly difficult)..... Are you saying that there's little point in progressing this if you (a) can't or are not prepared to build a kit and ( there's no stock to run with them and both of these need to be addressed? I didn't pick up on any of that from either the Hornby or Bachmann replies. What I'm suggesting is how we collectivey progress the administration of all this, in particular using the Bachmannn reply as the template for what all needs done as a minimum to move it forward. At the moment beyond what Stuart has kindly done on our behalf, it's nothing more than a wish list and will remain that way unless these points are addressed. Adding new coaches into the equation at this stage would I'd suggest only reduce the chance of getting anything done, and are clearly (in the case of non-corridor ex LMS & LNER stock) an issue affecting all the current RTR locomotives, not specifically the "Scottish" ones we have selected. Apart from that there are as Stuart suggests already some suitable stock for use with the locomotives chosen. For the next year it could only be a matter of making contacts and approaching the right people in the societies and organisations that might be interested in the production of a Scottish loco, and fleshing out with real figures what potential support there is - it's likely to be only a raising of awareness, but if we sit back and do nothing, adding too many if's and but's in, we will surely end up with just that - nothing.

I personally think the best approach would be to take the entire content of the letter from Bachmann as the template for all that needs to be addressed for moving this "project" (for want of a better word) on, irrespective of whose going to front and/or produce them. Only picking out one possibility (which is only implied in the letter) of approaching one of the Scottish based societies, preservation or otherwise, is unlikely, in the present climate to produce a thanks, but no thanks response at this early stage. The costs and risk would not be inconsiderable, and would represent a considerable exposure for them without any form of guaranteed return or commercial evaluation. No, we (collectively) have to do the donkey work ourselves as has been suggested long before we get to the stage of presenting the facts to the manufacturers or for that matter the preservation societies, or any third party "sponsor" when basically, asking them for a loan of their cash. How and who moves this forward is the first clear decision that needs to be made. Everyone whose interested can do their bit however there needs to be more joined up thinking on setting out the way ahead - and re-visiting wether buying a K3 will promote potential sales for a 439 or J36 class isn't it. We've done all that navel gazing and we are well past it - where it should be. So whose going to stand up and volunteer to co-ordinate all this. (Stuart) you certainly seem to be the centre of it at the moment however are you happy to carry on as the focus and contact point for all this work? I'm happy to provide as much assistance as I can should you need it, however others may well be interested to help out, beyond voices of support. What say anyone else?

Personally I'd suggest we just hang fire a bit until the "official" response to the poll results and request is received. There's a danger of flying off half-cocked in the huff at an early stage and approaching everyone else and his neighbour for a fag-packet quote for a one-off run limited edition that the wrong messages go out to those that we've first approached. This is the most recent first step (of a long-running saga) in getting this taken seriously, and best kept that way. There's a long way to go to exhaust the big two (at the moment) approach before we start throwing cash at the specialised producers. There's at least 10? (non-MORI approved data collection method) small producers who would gladly take your cash - money up front of course, but is that any reason to throw in the towel just yet? One step at a time.

Hopefully you mean a BRCW type 3 - not the latest BR "WC" Looking good all the same....!

It's a pity that the response wasn't more positive given that they're quite happy to take our money for everything else however there's something to be built on at least. Meanwhile as Dave says the kitbuilding will have to go on for a while yet........ All the same many thanks to "Caledonian" Stuart for his efforts to date. p.s. Jamie - sign me up for the limited edition "Sir Basil Spence" post-war Glasgow architectural range?

You might not technically be "English" however that's a bit of a Scottish attitude there.... Hey when you get paid that amount of money you can afford to whinge and moan..... Anyway the best thing we ever gave to Manchester was Denis Law..........!

Unfortunately Fergie's record says otherwise - and so do a considerable amount of other folk around Europe, strangely enough. see this lot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ferguson and wish that Charlton had half that track record (and the cash to go with it......) Not bad for boy from Govan

No problem Graham - I'm bound to have photo's somewhere of the shore supply connection units and the control panels. Static battery chargers & outlets changed quite considerably over the years as the 24v version had been in the carriage sidings since Adam was a boy - and with the advent of Mk3s & HST's needed 110v equipment! , however the only real change I noticed for the ETS, was with the addition of the three-phase supplies for the HSTs - generally just "planted" (as only the Plant & Services folk could arrange) alongside the 800-1000v ETH supply, but of course also with two separate control panels..... The only other changes I remember were to the earth-proving equipment for the shore supplies however that was a technical rather than "visual" change. I'm sure a photo might surface that'll show what I mean! - Ask Glenn what a "Battery End" is How are you modelling the CET equipment for the sleepers? and is it laid out to do a whole set at once or 1/2 vehicles at a time?

Thought this might be of some use Graham as your shed is much the same proportions and this was built for the job. Inverness Carriage Depot in 1985 when it was not that old though one of the last specifically "carriage" sheds built..... Luxury compared with Clayhills (2 coaches at a time) and with split level pits - lower in centre as used at all the HST/Carriage Maintenance Depots since the mid 70s. p.s. Sorry the focus isn't great!

Yes Simon I do remember the Clan competition However we did announce and start it and finish it long before the Hornby announcement that they were going to do it - You'll remember also all the folk that said we were waisting our time on such an unsuccessful class, and why would Hornby even dream of producing it - blah blah blah........... Keep up your conversions Simon and don't wait for the outcomes of the annual rumour mill.

You know, I must have been really lucky - both those I got in the first week of delivery of the first batch ran smoothly out of the box - and they continue to do so without any obvious signs of stress/distress. Naturally I'm concerned that they'll fail at some point however I can't honestly tell the retailer that they're faulty when there is no obvious fault at this stage - without lying - something I'll choose not to do. Perhaps this thread is best left to individual action between the owners and the retailers who can pass on any further problems or shortcomings to Heljan.

The ex-Cowlairs/LNER painter I knew at St.Rollox just called it "scumbled" - no doubt a local term with many variations - though a finish once seen a lot on tenement doors (used to cover poor quality/age damaged wood) and not just around Springburn!

Harris gives the month of change to Crimson & Cream as March 1949 however I doubt 'Ersatz' would, albeit having been used at times since the mid 30s, have been an appropriate title for imitation teak finish in the post-war years!

The two Thompson Buffets as mentioned by Pennine earlier hold that distinction, beating the last of the Gresley Buffets, one (at least) lasting until 1979, thank to the efforts of BR Scottish Region. This thread has a bit of deja vu for me so trawling the old RMweb turned up this; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8462 There's probably some other info about the Gresley RBs on the old forum as well that a search or three might turn up! I had a quick look at the prospect of converting a Hornby Maroon RB into the BR Blue version with the later body changes however it's not likely to be the easiest of jobs - Hornby's glazing apart from being near impossible to remove without breaking it, has the sliding light frames pre-painted onto the surface - in maroon of course - I may well still give it a try, if this could be resolved and as the secondhand example I have is something of a "second" having two small sink marks in the moulding on the outside of the body. You only have to live with the incorrect profile!

The GEM ones look the part Graham - all you need 4mm scale brewers hose and 18" dia round wooden discs for fitting 2ft from the end of the hose - oh and a 5gallon drum to sit the end of the hose in! Not much to add to your list

Probably the largest single group of LNER coaches to survive in preservation. - 14 all in - using the last painted numbers on BR - 9115, 9116, 9118, 9122, 9123, 9124, 9128, 9129, 9130, 9131, 9132, 9134, 9135 & 9195 which is probably testament to how long they lasted in BR Service - the majority being purchased in the mid to late 70s I'll put my neck on the chopping block here and say the last group of them were withdrawn from service by the summer of 1977. There certainly was a clamour for what I believe was the last four, when they became available on the BR Tender List at that time. I had to inspect them all for purchase (of just one - 9132 as it turned out)!

Don't forget Ian - two of the Gresley Buffets (at least 9132 and perhaps 9124 that I can remember) operated on an ad-hoc basis out of Cowlairs on both the Inverness & Aberdeen services - in Blue & Grey, so it's not beyond possibility that they may have been used on the West Highland, I don't remember them used there before they were withdrawn though after a very short period out of service 9132 went straight from the Carriage Sidings at York to the SRPS at Falkirk and was used within a week in their Railtour set, and for almost 10 years after - frequently on the West Highland. Best bet would be to model them on the West Highland in the early 60s when just about every service had a Gresley buffet or Cafeteria Car! (I am biased though)

Watch this space Dave...... I'll need something to run that A2 on!

Nice pic at Motherwell Bruce.... That shunter would've been popular - that second tanks well off the road - just at the fuel point too!

Bruce, Click on you username at the top right hand side, then select 'My Gallery' from the pull down list. In your gallery, click on the image you would like to add comments to then look on the right hand side at the image details box - there should be a Mod Options button - click on that and one of the options is 'Edit Image' select that to change the title or add a description. Bob.

Not quite Phil but nearly Mk3s (as the disc braked Mk2s) have Cast Iron 'cheek' discs, bolted through the wheel (in four halves bolted either side of each wheel centre), Mark 4s have separate brake disc rotors on the axles themselves as you say however they do not have conventional cheek discs as the Mk3s etc. Either way the Mk 4s have a far greater brake pad area and are far better ventilated to allow rapid heat dissipation.

Where have you been hiding 'Chard' - wondered if you had got lost in the whitrope tunnel after indulging your borders alter-ego?

No I don't think so. I'm sure the Craigentinny TPS was at the rear of the Pump House and is out of sight there. If you look at this shot of Clayhills http://jordstrainpics.fotopic.net/p47166365.html (click on it to open it in a seperate window and enlarge it). Ahead of the the group of guys, there's one working on his own doing something to the side of the actual separator itself. It's basically a black tank maybe 10ft long x 3ft wide by 8ft tall, with an open top, which is always filled full of contaminated water (all of the rainwater and spilt fuel etc. pumped to it from the Fuel Point). The water passes over tilted plates (literally) with the oil seperating from the water. The water went into the trade effluent drains, and the oil into into a large cylindrical tank that's sitting within a bund directly behind it. Once the tank was full, it was offloaded by Road Tanker, and the waste oil was sold to a company who recovered it for further use (I'm not sure what it was used for - maybe industrial heating)?

More bits of Craigentinny Graham; Note that last shot Graham. The one you pointed out earlier at http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p45804941.html This was taken looking up the side of the blue shed on the right of the above photo from the opposite direction. By the time I took that shot, the cleaning lighting gantries had gone, as had the roads on which the vehicles were sitting on in the earlier shot.