Kenton

As someone pretty well known on here for being on here most days It has taken up to now, almost 2 months since the OP, to even notice this topic! For those who have been running their build topics on a far more intermittent basis I am not surprised in the least that some may not have posted here. I would not like to see those "unintentionally excluded" and wonder if it would have been possible to simply somehow gather all the topics in the forum and post as a summary? I do think as an exercise in promoting kit building/scratch building/modifying RTR it has been excellent, but wonder why it took 5+ years to get to it. I am also a little concerned that those who entered and did not finish might also feel excluded from "entering" here. Just because they have not finished to the standard of the really outstanding examples above should not distract from the achievements made through simply crossing that first hurdle of starting. We probably all have kits in a state of "unfinished" (some would say that none of mine are finished as do not paint them), some of them in that state for years. That doesn't mean that they are ignored. I never saw this as a challenge or a race to finish (at any arbitrary defined point) more as an incentive to actually have a go. To show that the "art" of kit building is not dead (as presumed) I do hope that the forthcoming BRM article emphasises that point and is not simply a display of what can be ultimately achieved. The finished product displayed I think does very little to promote this part of the hobby (it is as boring as displaying the latest RTR offering). The best way to promote kit building is to show how straightforward it actually is, step by step even if it is sometimes 2 steps forward and one back. As for voting, I for one am going to find it very difficult to chose a "winner" because they are ALL winners AFAIC.

I don't often have cause to post in this topic, partly because the term "good buy" is really very subjective. For something really wanted most folk will pay more than the odds for it as we see so often in eBay Madness. On that basis some may not agree with me that this really was a "good buy". But in this case it was not really a burning desire to "must have" but more of a total surprise that I was not out bid. Recently I have seen AG hornblocks going for £19 ! A set of 6 OO/EM AG wheels going for £25! A set of AG sprung buffers for £12.00 not to mention a number of AG kits where the asking price has been on the very wrong side of £150. So I am quite pleased to have had delivered an AG kit (unstarted and complete) for a MR S or U 0-6-0T complete with a set of P4 wheels, buffers, hornblocks, and a few extras, all for under £70 - a more than fair price IMO.

I don't think it was a 2015 Challenge (or any specific year) I believe it was more of a challenge to establish a new concept in railway modelling (new to the UK OO scene at least). It has just been that the take up has been disappointing.

BritMod-00 Module? is this an apparition I see? Whatever happened to ....

OK rare I get, but it is not correct (admitted by in the text) and condition hardly perfect but allowing for wage inflation the BIN can't be that far off ... Noo idea what my father paid for it way back then but it wasn't cheap (before I, like most kids, left it in a completely unsaleable condition. Maybe a bit optimistic, but not THAT far off ... if it had been correct as per original.

  Excellent builds. Take my word for it you get better with each kit, though there are some kits that defy even the "professionals". There is also a big temptation to believe (not helped by what you generally see on RMWeb) that adding more and more detail is what every modeller wants/needs to do. There are plenty of folk out there who just want a working model of something that looks close to the prototype and built solidly and true. They are happy with the 3ft rule and don't inspect their models with a magnifying glass. Then there are the rivet counters who need everything and more including the invisible. Both have their place but sometimes the pursuit of the unobtainable becomes obsessive. The most important thing is to build it the way you want to and to keep pushing and more the skill set until it reaches your own standards/objectives. Keep enjoying it and let the rest of us enjoy watching the progress.

Almost too good to be true?

As one of a similar mind: - We use what we use and don't give a d@m about pandering to environmentalists, and also being one who has temperatures at "shorts and T-shirt level" in fact probably higher, I just had to do the same check comparing our use. Unbelievably our usage comes in at 70% though it is difficult to find a house of comparable size. Either the comparisons are wrong (which I suspect) or someone out there is heating their fields. We do turn off the radiators in unused bedrooms, the dining room and spare lounge (so about half the house) but the thermostat is set for a comfortable 26'C downstairs and a chilly 18'C upstairs where the fresh air enters through the open windows. Our boiler is new (<3 years) but the property is under insulated (I'm lazy - and could do better on that front) though I am not convinced on the saving (if any) compared to the capital outlay. A neighbour had several inches of extra loft insulation put in and says it made no impact on his energy bills. Now on smartmeters and our energy use is pretty much the same over the whole 24hrs (a slight dip overnight), our kitchen and utility room lights are on all day 24/7 (but the concession is that they are LEDs) I guess to some we are profligate users, but that is just the way we choose to live and to spend our money.

Anoher of my pet hates of sellers on ebay. Listing a loco then listing the tender separately then advertising the fact in each listing. Also, happens a lot in kit sales - selling the tender separately or selling the wheels separately. All an attempt to underhandedly force the bidding on both items - if you want the whole thing (odd that most buyers want the whole) then you have to overbid on the parts or all you get is spares. Have you not heard that we get fined if we don't recycle plastic and metal, and ebay is the place to dump rubbish at BIN prices.

I'm addicted to opening boxes and caressing their brass contents.When I can't open my own I took up opening other people's. There is no known cure. I am just weak willed at the sight of another unopened box. Most usually get to the finished unpainted stage, when thankfully they are taken out of my hands and no longer fester around the workshop. I can then get on with opening another box ... and another one ... and another just so I know that everything is there to start building one day. Some of the boxes have been opened many times and found lacking, but it is reassuring to know they are still there, still shiny brass and tempting. Then there is always ebay to add more to the collection. Good luck, but remember "resistance is futile".

Kit? Not a very good description.Avoid at all cost, unless the new owners update the kit - especially the etches. As so often, the brass etching was "imaginative", from hand drawn masters and etched on the thinnest brass conceivable. Go with the SEF it will go together just fine. (and probably the Roxey one, not built one) They were not known as scratch aids for nothing. Sure any version was possible just add more brass.

Sometimes, I think we are a lot of old worrying women! Why do we use so much electricity? Some folk on this planet manage perfectly well with none or a lot less. I have a box of candles and a box of matches. I can do without the telly and most other gadgets. I know how to light a fire to boil my water and cook the odd dead animal. It is not the end of the world, it is just an old power station. Sorry, just cannot get worked up about it.

I'm sure I have seen one just like that exhibited - in fact I have seen a lot not even up to that standard. Once more we find it easy to critique a layout though the "fine scale" prism. It is OK, possibly quite good and pretty well complete. The only problem really is the BIN price, a little optimistic but then it is ebay and the claim is that he is open to offers. OK, lets see £25 for the kit (I've not checked if this is one of the "rarer" D&S kits) add the wheels (OK it is only OO, must be hundreds of those lying around), no other parts required for a D&S kit? What 4 hrs to build one (you are rather fast at kit construction aren't you?) and that includes time taken to clean it all ready for painting. What 30 minutes to paint, surely that can be done even to that standard a bit quicker, and do not forget the lining and transfers. Perhaps £100 for adding parts, constructing and paining does seem to be expensive to some. Oh dear, I forgot, but you could always buy one on ebay completed for the price of the original kit. Yeh, I know - it's only a hobby and not a commercial enterprise. Just another BIN rather than letting the market decide, all I can find to complain about. That and if you wait a while you can no doubt pick up a fully working kit built loco for less.

The answer to that depends - is it so "rare" I cannot get my hands on one in a good unpainted condition for a lot less than the asking price plus what it would cost me to have it repainted to the same or better standard, plus of course how urgently I need one in a repainted condition, and that might be subjective. The same applies to "kit built items". On several occasions I have purchased a "kit built" item simply to dismantle it and rebuild to my "standards", in other words to obtain the raw kit at often much less than the virgin kit out of the box (often seen at stupidly inflated prices on eBay). It is not that unusual to see kits DJH, AG, Crowline, Craftman, etc and the like in particular with "asking" prices over double the original kit. This is even more speculative for 7mm kits where the original kit is still available direct. This particular seller is far from being alone in this speculation. Ebay has many desperate bidders or simple mugs who are taken in by this. On the other hand a DJH kit purchased for something like £50, built by an amateur to a reasonable standard (it runs) can often go for less. As a bonus you get wheels (I've had good and bad surprises there) and a motor (often dubious open frame, but RG4 not unknown). What cost anew motor/gearbox for the rebuild? As it costs upwards of £250 for 4mm build a no change from £100 for painting that built DJH runner should be on sale for more like £500. But no one on ebay will expect to pay that for it will they? Anyone who asks those sort of prices will get nominated as the Gostude replacement for the butt of "ebay madness". what irks me, and I think many others, about this "professional" seller (and his compatriots) is the inability to describe adequately or even correctly what is for sale.

But there is a way! in your search line add "-gostude" and be sure to check the box to include description - easy. only downside is the number of rejects you need to add to the list. ebay are very unlikely to introduce an optional reject seller as it is against their interests and it would also be something novel and useful unlike most of their "added features". On the subject of these repainted Lima items. How much do you think it would cost you to have them to be professionally repainted. Or should that be free just like kit building?

Excuse me coming late to the thread/topic. They do have the habit of vanishing down the "view new content" - even more so if one is away for any period of time (like a couple of hours, enough for a topic to vanish out to page 8!). I tried blogs but following a software update they just don#t display correctly and hardly anything works on them so I just don't bother any more. For all I know those faults have been fixed but I doubt it very much. I have enough trouble keeping up with all my favourite topics to waste time on the blogs. Agree completely with your comment above. I like to see mistakes and problems (OK I like to see the easy builds as well) but seeing the issues with a kit really helps me from falling into the same trap and often gives a solution to those problems. .... and the purpose of this post ... well the "follow this topic" button is another broken bit of code and posting is the only way to get an email when the topic gets updated.

Smple answer. Testing the water. Usually they are set at a very long end date as well. Your close offer nforms them that they are in the right (if not low) ball park asking price. You can add that type of seller to the ones that ask a ridiculously high starting price - They scan ebay for VAGUELY similar items (eg a Finney kit may have recently sold for near £200, so they ask the same for a Falcon/Jidenco or even DJH one!!) What they are doing is trawling for the gullible, daft or simply desperate buyer. It is likely to go unsold and will re-appear until it is sold. Which ultimately confirms their strategy. Also those who list an item with a start price of 99p and a reserve of £200 (yes seen that one) and they wonder why they get offers of £20! O gauge seems to attract them. They see a really well built loco selling for upwards of £2000 and expect the scrap they are selling to be "worth" the same. It really is a lunatic asylum on there at the moment some really stupid prices being hit in time for Xmas.

... and you are surprised. I've heard nothing about emails ever working with this person/company, so what even makes you think any are ever reaching their intended target, let alone being read. The person who runs this business (I use the term in a completely abstract sense) doesn't appear to care about any customer or have knowledge of the internet. I really cannot understand why anyone who has even read a small fraction of this topic continues to send an order by that means. We all agree it is a pity, we all have orders we would like to place and have filled, we all agree that the product line is more worthy of a motivated and able owner. But lets just get real and stop chasing the breeze.

Sheer desperate measures and will almost certainly lead to further problems and a rattle. I don't think this is a quartering issue at all. Quartering simply isn't that critical. 90 + or - a bit is good enough and it has to be a long way out to actually lock up wheels. I still quarter by eye and it cannot be THAT accurate. A built chassis presents the following big problems. 1: If the axles were not built by aligning them on the cranks then the axles could be out of alignment. Biggest and most likely cause of a lock up ponce the cranks are put on after the chassis has been shown to be free rolling prior to adding the cranks. This is not the best way to build a chassis. Align the axles with the cranks centred on them. 2: bent crank pins (or worse crank pin holes that are not perpendicular to the wheel face / parallel to the axle. Difficult to spot but quite common. Also beware of the retaining nuts on the cranks. If soldered, it is easy to solder them solid, if glued - even easier. My bet would be on the cranks out of alignment with the axles and thereby forcing an axle into the bearing face causing the lockup. Only sensible solution is a rebuild with the cranks to produce alignment. That may show up as the frames out of true, or bearings not square/seated, or even spacer issues.

It was quite well fought over. Of course just because the RRP is higher than the apparent second hand doesn't necessarily make it a "bargain", there are other factors that come into play such as ease of availability of the "new" item out of production/stock/no online presence/fun of the auction/... I still think we are in the silly season where the bargains are few as ebay sellers put up their prices to catch the ignorant Xmas shopper. I agree there are now too many buyers searching for bargains and very little goes unnoticed so most items attract competitive bidding. I still find the odd "good buy" - but then it can be very subjective, even paying over the odds for a kit - if it is the only way to get hold of one quickly. Even over the odds it remains a good buy to the person who wants it that desperately.

Because the way you "put down" Mozzer's comment. P4 has nothing to do with Broad Gauge. (other than the 4mm scale, that all these modelling gauges share) It is not a war, it is just a difference in track+wheel measurements - I build locos to P4 as well as other scales and gauges, so it is no big deal, nothing special just another variant on the hobby.

Ah, the Xmas effect - the season of generosity and good will to all sellers. At least the buyer(s) had a few moments of excitement as they fought over them to see who would win. So modellers who model in OO, EM and OO9 don't model in 4mm to the foot!! The only thing that makes P4 different is that they model the track standard gauge correctly to the 4mm/ft rule and then also like to put don the rest who may model everything else perfectly to 4mm to the foot as being "narrow gauge" or some how inferior. There are plenty of OO and EM modellers out there who do a better job at the scenics and the loco than some who claim P4 credentials - it is just they accept that they fall below perfection on the track gauge. On the subject of P4, there seems to have been quite a few P4 kits with wheels and individual sets of wheels come up on ebay in the last week or so. Most going for reasonable prices in the end though not hotly fought over. Is this a sign ? A change of fashion ?

Wot? after OO maybe ... I still wonder which version of ebay all these "bargains" are on. (you paid too much for that 08 chassis, it would have been cheaper had I not bid on it. Just wasn't interested in the Lima body. SWMBO has been searching and bidding on my behalf for the last month or so and she tends to be a little to cautious so misses some things. Working from a long list of kits "to look out for" and absolutely no knowledge of the hobby I guess it is understandable but I'm not sure I do any better. I think some folk have a direct line to ebay that warns them when a bargain is coming up

I understand fully sub-judice and have no interest in the full evidence appearing here though that RMT statement seemed to go well beyond that. In the interest of justice it is important for the accused (and the wider public) to know who the accusers are and exactly what the accusation is. If not only for others in a similar situation to potentially committing the same offence in the intervening period. instigate and investigate are quite different The CPS does neither.

and I think you are wrong there. The CPS does not instigate a prosecution itself. It simply authorises one to proceed. That is only based on the evidence as presented to it. They do not have to make any judgement on the viability of the evidence or the nature of the offence just that it is presentable to a court. What we are still missing here is what offence/law has been broken that brought about the case to be submitted to the CPS? So no case is silly. There are always two parties and two sets of evidence and in between is the law. The judge/jury will make a decision. Now you can argue that a particular law is silly (though I would prefer to argue it is badly worded)