Kenton

Thanks for the re-assurance. I have decided that I will be running this on a 6v controller so it sounds like I can give the resistor a miss. Sadly, just as suspected, the project - despite having all the parts together dropped down the queue behind the Billard, a Tin Turtle and a whole host of 7mm stuff (to ease the eye strain). But I will return to it.

But that's always true... time to look forward to all the unwanted gifts and rush to sell to pay the "unexpected" bills in January... Bargain time (perhaps not) but at least back to some normality.

Only if you are prepared to pay for it. I think Ebay prices have gone mad for Xmas and the chancer's are back with their unopened train sets (purchased and unwanted last year) selling for ridiculous sums. There is some really odd bidding going on ATM as the Moms and Pops seek to fill little Jonny's wish list again. I can see it all now, a furious tugging at the sticky tape to undo the parcel, only to find a "train" inside - is that all I get for the money? There will not be any real bargains until after Xmas, when Jonny tries ebay/cash converter only to get a tenth of what was paid for it. Moms and Pops take note - just give little Jonny the cash.

Suspiciously like a typo he meant to type £1.00 but lost the decimal point. Not so much madness as carelessness.

You certainly have me salivating at the thought

Are you going to get York Modelmaking to cut the windows to go with it?

Sure, and I quite agree that the NGRM Forum is a useful resource for the Narrow Gauge Modeler - however, - I'm a very loyal member of RMWeb (actually like everything in one place) - NGRM is sometimes very slow moving (I fall into that instant fix trap) - I would not call myself a Narrow Gauge Modeler - I guess I am more of a kit builder than anything, it really doesn't matter to me what the scale or the gauge is so RMWeb suits my needs better. I still need to pluck up the will power to bring my soldering iron to bear on those wires. Having seen what is inside that motor I fear that the heat will simply vapourise the microscopic plastic gear. the temptation is to continue the disassembly down to that metal wheel/pickup assembly and solder to that without any plastic around but then the carpet is likely to devour everything.

I am an occasional member of THAT forum - so I did have a brief excursion there while I was looking for more info. TBH, I didn't find very much there other than the same vague suggestions that the chassis were to become available - maybe -, the posts by the owner of RT Models showing the completed Lister - linked to in the OP above -, and the general experiences and completed 'other' models by some other members. Nothing that was obvious, to me, about what to definitively do with the chassis to get it to function under the Lister, and nothing very conclusive about the circuit board. I am also acutely aware that THAT forum is not accessed by all those on RMWeb and is a membership only forum. Hence my posting here long before I realised that there had been discussions on-going on THAT forum for a few months. Even so some names there are familiar here This is all new ground for me and was brought to it by my interest in the Lister - partly why I am a little perturbed by the instructions for he Lister being so vague about the essential bit. Oh, and because I didn't search RMWeb for `Portram` either I only just spotted your post here - Nice one.

Of course there still is the rumour that Ffestiniog are in negotiations with their importers to stock the single chassis units at about that price. The part definitely seems to be available from Kato, Japan - so I wish them well. I have already designs on a couple more, and I have already been accused of being a spoilt child at Xmas breaking my toys. Back to the current project: From what I have read elsewhere the BIG question is should the small circuit board be removed or not? I gather it is some sort of voltage/current limiting circuit and that these tiny motors should not be run at 12V. I guess the circuit could be removed and replaced with a simple resistor to limit the voltage. In a similar way to the Nigel Lawton & Meridian motors. Sadly. but typically, the instructions with the Lister kit are totally blank in this respect, not indicating what should be done In case you were all wondering what it looks like inside I wasn't brave(mad) enough to open it up (it is easy the black clips slide off either side) the following image (not mine) has been posted on Gnatterbox http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn221/raylue/RailModel/KATO%20PORTRAM%20TLR/P9.jpg

Interesting - but potentially confusing - I wonder if that is for the single chassis (in which case Ffestiniog do not have anything to worry about) or for the complete double unit (In which case they had better watch out because there is going to be a run on them) The clarity is certainly not helped by a photo of the complete tram.

WB = 12mm DIA 4mm B2B 7.7mm Weight < 0.5g

Yes, and yes - go with the Ffestiniog shop unless you can find a UK source cheaper. There still seems to be the suggestion on that other forum that the chassis may become available as a separate part soon and without the wasted trams. It has a Part #14801 on it so should be obtainable from Kato ?

Now where did I put my hammer and blow torch ..... Seriously it was much easier: From underneath pull the side panels of the tram slightly away and forward from the chassis under-carriage. Take hold of the central pivoting section and peel back the 4 tabs holding the lower half on to the upper half. This exposes the two clips holding the upper half, gently squeeze apart and remove. Holding the units firmly, twist about the central coupling, this is flexible, and remove the coupling. The plastic mechanism cover can now be detached from the metal chassis carriage by inserting a screwdriver to expel the tabs from underneath. This reveals the motor housing (which is designed to rotate slightly), wiring, pickup contact strips and a small (very small) circuit board Prize off the plastic cab unit base from the front (two tabs), taking care not to damage the circuit board - it might be needed Lift up the circuit board from under the pickup strips and peel the wires back from the strangle clip to free them Slide out the pickup strips. The motor unit can now be dropped out by releasing its two small clips. Take care not to split the motor unit. Do not pull it completely out. Inside the metal under-carriage is a flexible plastic retainer. By flexing it, it can be removed. Finally cut through the flexible plastic retainer to release the motor unit and its circuit board. Now would seem to be an appropriate time to check to see if the animal is still alive.

It wasn't £8, it was £13.50. I didn't have any contract with ParcelForce - I didn't have any choice in using them, just who made that choice? This should be managed by HMRC - I don't have an issue with the VAT so much, even though if I was travelling with the package it would be without VAT. I also have the issue with the delay incurred. Tracking this item from Japan it left 1 day after ordering and arrived in UK a day later - the rest of the time has been ParcelForce fif-faffing-around sending me an invoice (snail mail) and moving from one depot to the other. I have to ask why it took less than 24 hours for a parcel with the Lister kit to arrive and over 7 days for a letter from less than 10 miles away to be delivered? ... but then we have been there before. Anyway what is done, is done and I'll know not to take that route in future. Buying from the US never seems to have this problem.

Not yet - it is sitting there looking at me, pleading not to be butchered. I keep prodding its underbelly with a sharp scalpel but can't quite figure out the most painless cut, and every creek in the house makes me worry about an anti-vivisectionist invasion. I then drift back to a more constructive task I'm working on, and to give my poor eyes chance to recover from examining the tiny details on this model. ... either that, or I'm being lazy and waiting for the guidance of someone else.

The ParcelForce van delivered a small box today. Of course I realised that when purchasing from Japan I was going to be stung for VAT ... but I had forgotten about the hidden tax of compulsory ParcelForce. A tax by any other name because it is not possible to avoid it and it is, in my view, far too high. It is NOT a delivery charge - that was already paid for, it is a charge for handling - and it was excessive. So anyway it has finally arrived - and on reflection I should have purchased through Ffestiniog. Perhaps if this project works, then I would shop there next time. Of course if they could supply just the motorised chassis at a competitive rate ... Anyway here it is: Now to figure out how to separate those motor bogies from that nice new rtr tram

Well just thought I would add that following a read through of the instructions - it took 2 attempts, they were a bit jumbled, I know now that the chassis is required BEFORE attempting to build as a motorised Lister. Ah well, that is a dangerous delay as it will now go back into the queue of kits. However, I now also await deliver from Japan of the required chassis and their inevitable slow progress through Customs. as they say in the movies .. I'll be back

OK, knock me over with a feather, the postman has just delivered a Jiffy Bag! Now let's just understand that I only ordered the kit at 15:00 yesterday and to receive it within 24 hr deserves a round of applause for RT Models. It would probably have been quicker had the postman's scheduled delivery time had not been so late round here. Packaged: Extremely well inside a poly bag inside a plastic box. A double-side A4 sheet set of instructions, part-list and exploded diagram. In the bag 12 w/m parts and a short length of brass wire. Now where did I last mis-place my magnifying glass and micro soldering iron tip ?

That then makes them £90 for the double - we are back in Ffestiniog territory, hardly equivalent to direct from Japan - in fact buying direct from Japan and selling at £45 each chassis looks like there's a bit of profit to be made ....

Thanks Tom, at £45 for the double chassis that would be more up my street and a good price - but if that is just for one unit then it is not much better than the Ffestiniog shop. It seems very easy to confuse the Kato Portram with the Tomix Portram the latter being useless in this project. Anyway I've taken the step of ordering the Lister kit - even if it ends up as a rusty static item. Already signed up, though such a rare visitor I've probably forgot my login. RMWeb is all I can cope with and covers all my modeling interests.

Sure I can appreciate that £29 per "loco"chassis is fine and no problem with another project that final link hinted at a very suitable route to be taken (gravity driven wagon) it also shows just how compact and neat these units are. I suppose the real problem is getting over the buying a complete unit then breaking it up without digressing into some tram-based-n-gauge-japanese excursion. I know what I'm like on these things - easily digressed Perhaps the first step is to order the Lister kit and add it to the project queue....

That was the £95 one I linked to above - the one that shocked me - but later found on EBay for nearly half the price. At £58 or so it is still a big spend on a small project though cornelius you are spot on with the mental problem of dismembering one. Are there any estimates out there of when the chassis (preferably as separate units) will become available. If they come in at anywhere near the cost of the other reliable Kato units I can see them being very popular. Meanwhile I'm probably going to place this one on hold ... which is a bit of a disappointment.

while searching t'web for a suitable kit I was redirected to this rather nice looking w/m kit from RT Models Which took my fancy Following the information there I found that the motor for this is one half of a Kato Portram Now there's the problem. I'm quite happy spending the £15 on the kit and even another ~£15 on a chassis/motor aka typical Kato tram but £95 for a new Portram!! Further digging revealed one of these can be obtained new from Ebay for a little less. but then I have this problem with buying and breaking a perfectly good item just to get at the chassis. Has anyone seen the chassis for these available separately? Has anyone used one? ... and as you get two motors in one Portram ... well - just look at this page to give you ideas Click Here I gather the pulling power of one of these units is virtually zero but then I'm only thinking of a rake of 5 mini-skips.

Heck, if that was all that was holding you up ! Though don't forget it will be heavier still to put back with all that sceniced stuff on it Good to see progress again.

Ah, but I wasn't proposing that the "pattern maker" or designer should invest in the laser equipment rather that the services of someone with the equipment could be used. For someone only producing a small range of models the equipment would be really expensive by comparison.