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There I was, quite happily dreaming of a layout idea that probably won't get past the armchair modelling (or swivel chair when I'm at work) stage, when along come Prof Klyzlr and Ozexpatriate with some more photos and video from prototype locations that have inspired me to do something slightly different from my usual norm. Many years ago I saw one of Peter North's layouts and was so impressed with how a complete scene could be modelled and was seen to be alive through nothing more than background music and a flashing Neon sign in a cafe window (tumbleweeds blowing across the layout were optional), I thought my first foray into US modelling would have to be something similar but based in a City in the Pacific Northwest in the early 1990's and featuring music from the Grunge bands of the era which is more of my scene. Coupled with the fact that I like having a layout on the go and with Wiley City just about finished, I started some scribbling... Here are the posts from the other thread:

That name came up this afternoon when I was with my Dad when we were looking at Frog Aircraft kits. It seems this seller's optimism knows no boundaries...

An 85 is rated at 66, more than enough for a decent Mk3 rake. I'm still looking for photos of them on Mk3 rakes or documents to say they were restricted.

I can think of a few possible workings (such as part of Liv+Man to Gla+Edin that combined at Preston and split at Carstairs) or a diverted Euston, however I reckon the 85 only brought the ECS in from Edge Hill and is in a hurry to return there.

How do you know if you're made it as a railway modeller...? When you spend 10 minutes trying to explain to someone why not every layout has to be stocked with RTR models, and if you've finally decided to have some degree of prototype fidelity, might have to accept that at some stage you'll have to build an item of stock or renumber an existing one to suit instead of moaning about manufacturers not supplying you with everything you'll need.....

I had one as a loan car for a few days when the dealer proved once again they couldn't fix my PT to an acceptable standard (It had to have new clutch cylinders but they forgot to reconnect the speedo sensor and clutch pedal). Unfortunately for them they phoned to say my car was ready 2 minutes after I set off for York to exhibit Deepcar at the NRM, so I had the Voyager for the weekend. I know what you mean about Chrysler dealers, better marques and cars are available...

Is it a Chrysler Grand Voyager....?

I used to be involved in that kind of thing, until like yourself I realised a model was finished when I said it was, and not when I compiled a nice little folder with scale drawings and photos and stood back whilst someone with little knowledge of the prototype argued white was indeed black and despite the prototype evidence, your effort is unlikely in the real world. Plus of course the programme is little more than painting by numbers (US style), and has little relevance to the UK scene or the merits in gaining said certificates or adding MMR after your name. I do agree that you have to recognise the definition of "Railway Modeller" as someone who builds things, rather than buy a collection of items and throw them together with some kind of resemblance of the prototype. Unfortunately, today's RTR is so good that I'm sure some people may never build a loco, piece of rolling stock, or structure, and still produce a quality layout. And I'd rather see decent RTR (not a Lima Collectors society layout )at a show than a "nice try, could do better "effort of the same prototype. And as for covers, I've got one on the shelf at the moment so can't really speak, except that despite having a couple with my stock on club layouts in the past, there's something to be said for it being all your own work. It's just the icing on the cake and wouldn't expect anyone to be downhearted if your layout gets into print but doesn't make the cover.

Vancouver...? Go on then...: Granville Island & Model Train Museum: Science World Interurban stop: Nr Skytrain Waterfront Station:

Photo, as promised (finally....!): Another reason for doing away with the moulded on couplings is they are on the wrong end of the bogies, which need to be turned so the dampers face the right way.

I have asked Bachmann that, and their response was they're waiting to see how the 85 sells. If there isn't a market then they won't be producing any more. Which probably means they'll be releasing the 81 in a couple of years time.

I use the "Spring" method, where one end has a coupling hook made from a piece of brass wire, and the other has a short length of Mamod drive spring or similar, so when the rake is coupled the springs are slightly stretched and the corridor connectors are used as a central buffer, guaranteeing close coupling. After several shows on a layout with fairly tight curves and undulations, I haven't felt the need to replace them with anything else. They are limited by the train weight, as the springs need to extend on curves but excess drag can stretch the first few couplings, but I've found having a DVT on the back of my Mk2 rake with it's pickups dragging still doesn't stretch the couplings. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, I'd best get on and take some to fully explain...

But they never carried Electric Blue when new. The original livery (without yellow ends) was darker and quite close to what became Rail Blue.

Two of the numbers match the EPS barrier vehicles, two don't....? (Source- 1997 P5).

Where are exhibiting Roundhouse or any other layouts this year, Ian...?

It's not entirely unprototypical as the real loco sometimes visited Ogden for heavy maintenance (although black 298 would be more authentic for the steam era). There's something about Armour yellow and Black that really work well together, although I'm probably biased after reading about the large HO scale model of Cheyenne in my well thumbed copy Great Model Railroads. Here it is again at the repair shop:

298 paid a short visit back at Ardenrail in 2009:

Having just seen the display models at the Leamington show, I think the shade of Electric Blue is spot on.

Thanks for the info Mark, the operating procedure I was thinking of was definitely from the early 90's and I believe I read somewhere (Railway Magazine or Rail) that for a time the Motorail vans were detached at Carstairs. Having a vested interest in the station and knowing it's operations, it didn't sound right to me as the only advantage would have been to speed up the shunt at Central upon arrival if the vans were behind the loco. I'm guessing the procedure was: Train arrives at Carstairs, in the Loco-Vans-Coaches formation, Loco and Vans are detached and run to Central, shunt loco places ramp wagon behind for unloading, Fresh Train loco couples on and takes coaches to Central. Shunt loco releases loco from coaches, runs ECS to Polmadie, Train loco from Carstairs releases ramp wagon and vans from first loco (if all that makes sense). All a bit too complicated really, and my interest only came from wondering whether we could replicate that on our Carstairs layout (although I never did finish the ramp wagon...). We sometimes ran Motorail vans behind the loco in a down express, although I do recall the Furness MRC lads going on ebetter and modelling the full DVT-Coaches-87-Motorail vans formation on Boldon Jn...

If you're refering to the ACLG forum, that was a re-post by me. I think a Heljan 89 would be a good seller, providing they bother to get it right. I'm sure other manufacturers will be looking at the Bachmann 85's popularity, so I think we'll eventually get an 81 from them, 84 and 86 from Dapol, and brand new 87's and 9's from Hornby.

Locomotivfuhrer - Could you describe the procedure for forming Up Motorail trains, especially when the 87 was sandwiched mid train (if you were there then....). Was there also a time when the vans were detatched from down trains at Carstairs, and did the side unloading wagon ever travel there...? Thanks in advance.

I very much doubt it, the only AC at Thornaby I can think of was a failed Res 90 in for wheelset attention. Not very common off the WCML at all really, there was an 85 hauled Railfreight exhibition train on the ECML in the late 80's, but thats about it.

They really shouldn't take it so personally, if it wasn't "near" their house, it's be close to somebody else's and they'd be the ones hunted out by the media to express their sorrow at the decision that they'd be ignorant to regard as anything but inevitable. I only hope that someone points out to them that any money spent on expensive lawyers fighting a judicial review will come out of the enviromental budget for the line. As for WCML upgrades, I'd like to see how any more can be done without additional serious disruption to the existing railway, as there aren't any more "easy wins" such as the Milton Keynes Down Fast platform avoider, and converting just the 18 mile Coventry-Proof House line to 4 tracks will disrupt more private property than the entire HS2 route.

There are already enough complaints that it is too "London-centric", building straight to the north won't make high speed journeys from Birmingham to Manchester possible. And as for Scotland finding the cash for such a project, they can't even complete a city tram line....

The problem is the Nimby's are trying to sell some kind of misplaced social responsibility to discredit the business case, when in reality I'd give them a bit (bit not too much) respect for saying "Look, I'm a NIMBY and the presence of HS2 would devalue my quality of life". At my local level, I'm wondering if the NIMBY's in villages along the northern section of the route really understand that one of the higher profile Anti HS2 voices- a Coventry City councillor, is really another arch enemy in calling for WCML upgrades as this will lead to a major increase in noise and a large land grab as the section from there to Birmingham is four tracked, instead of a noise barriered HS route that'll avoid many of these pretty little villages. The same councillor has also commented that Coventry will miss out as HS2 won't stop there, well the last time I looked we have an International station which is easier for us to access than most of the people who live in the city it's named after 22 miles up the road, so surely a HS2 station would offer an equal benefit instead of trying to advertise the fact he thinks we're somehow missing out...? It's true there will probably be a reduced service to London, which will actually be of benefit in the long run as a higher percentage of seats will end up being used by Coventry passengers and quite franky we're spoilt by the current service frequency provided by Virgin and LM. Less trains will also ease the bottleneck at Coventry, which would be of benefit on a local level as routing the proposed "Nuckle" Nuneaton-Leamington trains would currently be a nightmare to the timetable. And as for saying Coventry will become a backwater, how come the 13th most populated is only rated 71st for shopping...?