APOLLO

What would be the (back of a fag packet) cost of either of the inland diversions against the current proposal to re-instate the existing route THEN build a VERY substantial new sea wall, in front of the existing one by several metres, which would have the dual purpose of protecting both the existing railway and the town of Dawlish ?. A breakwater further out to sea may also be required. Something substantial needs to be done, NOW. This could be done and completed over the coming summer if fingers where extracted. Where is our engineering prowess these days?, I'm sure (somewhere) we still have it. Don't say we can't afford it - we are one of the richest countries in the world (so I an told !!). Time the "Lords" and "Sirs" who govern us started to earn their keep, over-paid and mega bonus bankers also. I'm also surprised at the seeming lack of forward contingency planning for such events by our railway owners & operators. When I worked in the Gas industry we had (and hopefully still have) in place all the procedures and resource locations / requirements etc for serious incidents, right up to loosing gas supplies complete area networks. We never lost a network, but had a few large town loss of supply incidents. The forward planning came into play immediately, supplies reinstated ASAP in all cases. Money was no object back then in such incidents. Re Dawlish, I'm certainly not complaining re the management & men at the incident, rather those at very senior level (incl Government) who seem only to deal in cutting & saving ££££. Brit15

Bring back the steamers, few waves - no problem !!!!!!!!!! An earlier poster wrote an offshore "breakwater" would help greatly. I'm not a civil / marine engineer, but this seems the way to go. Cost a lot, but so does the NHS, EU, etc etc. The Gov can work the money printing presses on overtime at the weekend !! Brit15

Michael, have you seen the book "Heaton Mersey motive power depot" by Michael J Stokes, Foxline Scenes from the past No 39. Superb book for CLC fans. There are a few pictures showing a little of the original 50' turntable, not all of it though on any picture. Page 1 shows a little of it in 1937, just some of the pit. with a couple of J10's. Page 8 has a small photo of it behind a J10 (no date), Page 15 has a view of the new 70' table, and a small photo below of the old 50' table being dismantled in 1960. Just shows the pit and a part dismantled centre section with a fireman's shovel leaning against it, handy for measurements. The caption states "The old fifty foot turntable lay derelict until September 1960, when it was dismantled and the void filled in. The builder's plate is claimed to read" Cowans Sheldon and Co. No 1644 - 1898 Carlisle" If the date is correct, this table must have replaced an earlier one as there was known to be a table in place by the early 1890's" Hope this is of help. Brit15

You can get a Hornby Crosti from Hattons TODAY - - for £350, and it's pre owned http://www.ehattons.com/70262/Hornby_R2880_OS_Class_9F_2_10_0_Crosti_Boiler_92021_in_BR_black_late_crest_loco_drive__Pre_owne/StockDetail.aspx The world has gone stark raving mad. Brit15

No you're not rude, your right, probably me being a bit of a "selfie", but not quite like those down in the Chilterns etc who are worried about loss of views (from windows), noise, property values or great crested newts. Living alongside the WCML I look forward to new trains. We have just gained the Trans Pennine Express fast DMU's & EMU's at Wigan, though to the expense of Bolton & Chorley. Yes we will need extra capacity on the WCML, we also need decent long distance ELECTRIC trains connecting cities other than London (Bristol Newcastle etc). I believe these are being planned / built. I hope they get them right, like the HST, which was / is the most successful train ever built in the UK. I still fear the cost of HS2 will be recouped from future cuts to other marginal lines / services. Brit15 Brit15

Leigh is one of the largest towns in the UK without a railway station. It was never on a main line, and lost its station around 1970. Work has just started on a (mis)Guided Busway from Leigh to Manchester, partly along the old railway, and partly along the busy A580 East Lancashire road, which will loose a lane in each direction for the bus (which will not be guided on this bit). A total farce. (read the comments) http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/work-starts-76m-leigh-guided-6081085 Leigh interchange with HS2 - no way. Even Wigan & Warrington trains will only go onto HS2 at Crewe. The HS2 trains running on the new line joining the WCML at Golborne just south of Wigan won't stop at Wigan (see the proposed timetable within the plans on the Gov website). They will pass my house though, if I live another 30 years !! I'm neither for or against HS2, too many unknowns. I fear a new HS2 will be at the expense of the rest of the network. I never go to London, and if I did I can go on a Pendolino in just over 2 hours from Wigan, with a current service of a train every hour from 0630 to 2100 (or thereabouts), most 11 cars long, - why do we need HS2 ? Brit15

Trams OK if they link thru the old Woodhead tunnel to the Sheffield tram network !!. Could be the UK's first "Interurban" network. Brit15

I haven't copied it, but Frank Dyer's Borchester layouts have been so inspirational to me over the years that my loft layout is named Borchester. I've never seen the original layout, but the pix posted earlier are superb. I have a few magazines with Borchester articles which I keep together, they are the superb mag "Model Railways" for September 1980, which dedicates the whole magazine to this layout. If anything deserves a reprint / posting on the web this does, all 26 pages of it complete with a few full page colour. I also have the Model Railway Journal No 27 (1988) which has an 18 page article on Franks old layout titled "The life and lessons of The Borchesters, again a superb article. There also were a few articles by Frank describing his locos in 1960-something Model Railway Constructor mags. I have a couple of these but can't find em at the moment. Brit15

Well we all have "non-runners" in our loco fleets don't we ? Scrapping would be a shame. I think the loco should be stripped of useable parts, then "sealed from the elements" and cosmetically restored, placed in a prominent position. The same would apply to many other locos / coaches etc. To big for my "stock boxes" I'm afraid !! Brit15

Might be a bit of help here, Michael For Xmas the kids bought me Dennis Sweeneys excellent book "The Wigan Junction Railways", which was the GC / LNER Wigan branch, joining the Cheshire lines at Glazebrook. On page 100 there is a good photo across the 50' turntable at Wigan Goods. The table is disused, no track or decking but the bridge girders, centre pivot, pit and traversing wheels are all shown. It is probable that a fair model could be made using this photo. I have checked with my copy of the 1947 LNER General Appendix, and this turntable is also listed as 50' dia. So possibly it was similar / same as the one at Walton. I intend (one day !!) to make a model of Wigan Goods, possibly with Wigan Central station & Lower Ince loco shed. Not a complex area, but a long drawn out affair, well over a mile long, mostly on bridges, so perhaps a little too much, might compress it, or just make a smallish working diorama. I'm a member of the Great Central railway society, and have most of their "Forward" magazines, so I'll have a butchers through them, and if I find anything of interest to you re Walton shed area I'll let you know. Brit15

Michael, the turntable dia at Walton Loco was 50' according to the Cheshire Lines working appendix for 1935 (a friend has a battered copy). Only mention of "Engines assisting at the rear of trains" is a one page table, States the following (from) Huskisson (to) Fazakerley West (up line) Drivers of trains requiring bank engine must be careful to so regulate the speed of train when leaving Huskisson as to permit of assisting engine closing up to guards van before latter reaches tunnel at exit from station yard. Quick look through saw very little else re this line, or Walton loco in the book. Brit15

Pre-Heaters at dawn gentlemen !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I must say I am a little lost with Hornby's philosophy regarding the Railroad range. It seems to be evolving into a more detailed, therefore more expensive range. I suppose the original thinking was to use older models from both Hornby & Lima stables. We are now seeing brand new tooled models entering the range probably the reason for the high price (for a Railroad model). I have several Railroad 9F's, paid under £60 at Hattons, lovely locos, good runners & haulers, (even better with a bit of extra weight easily inserted in boiler)not a single problem with any of them. Also have several other Railroad locos (Patriot, Black 5's) - same comments apply. I may be tempted with a crosti, but at nearly twice the price of recently bought 9F's, it is certainly a may. I'm sure it will be a fine loco though. Brit15

So do I, also I want to see plenty of operation, different era's, different settings, different scales, etc etc etc. If a nicely presented, operating layout holds my attention for a while, and gets on my "second viewing" list, I'm not over bothered if ALL the stock is RTR. I like to see good track work / buildings / infrastructure, the nitty gritty detail of which I'm not too fussed, it's the overall impression that counts for me, is it realistic ?. Also I like to see the pro's at work in their demonstrations of soldering, metal bending etc etc. Not for me though, not got the skill, but I admire those that have, - it's great to see. Not arguing - just a different point of view - which, indeed we all have. I think the word is diversity. That's the great thing about our hobby. By the way, that K1 above, it is not model making, it is model engineering, simply superb !! Brit15

Yes Michael, It was the Huskisson yard, at a lower level than the L&Y main line, and on the RHS when leaving Exchange. The year would be around 1971 - 2, (Not 69 or 70 as I used the Lime St service from Wigan whilst attending Riversdale Tech). I've somewhere seen a photo of a 47 here, seem to remember the caption stated a parcels train left here daily around this time. Where to I can't remember. If I do, or find the photo I'll let you know. Incidentally, the book "Liverpool & Manchester Vol 2 The Cheshire Lines" by Bob Pixton (Amadeus Press) has quite a number of photos of Walton-on-the-hill shed, and the line in general. Brit15

Interesting line the CLC around Liverpool. I remember when going to tech at Liverpool passing over the little used twin tracks at Broad Green, and later going from Wigan Wallgate to Liverpool Exchange (when I was at Birkenhead gas works for a spell) the seemingly huge goods depot at Kirkdale. Coming home around 5pm ish there usually was a Brush 4 (class 47) shunting vans down there as we passed. Just a distant memory now. Now I'm sure Michael is aware of this site, but for any Liverpool modeller, or indeed anyone interested in 60's 70's Liverpool, this site is a must see. http://www.inacityliving.piczo.com/?cr=7 A good book is "An Illustrated History of Liverpool's Railways" by Paul Anderson, by Irwell Press. Many good photos in / around the pool. Brit15

Last day of Steam at Wigan Springs Branch, around Nov 1967 (Don't know exact date, perhaps someone will know). Dad took the photo, on a Sunday for the local Wigan Observer newspaper. Sorry, no names known, though The Boss is easily recognised !! This is a young Apollo aged 15. The only time I "did the branch" with permission !! Now I can't help very much with last dates steam hauled / traversed X-Y or A-B, but I have quite a few photos that I will add to my photo link (below). Thought the above would be of interest. My brother worked on the Railway at this time (S&T then Civil Engineering dept at Liverpool), and we both had quite a few trips seeking steam hauled trains back then. I have the logs of those runs, though by no means are they very comprehensive, just the loco that hauled us from A-B on that day. The locos were run down back then, I remember a trip to Leeds back on 27/12/1966 (exactly 47 years ago today MY GOD ). DMU's to Leeds, and black 5 44824 Leeds- Manchester on a holiday relief, steam leaking everywhere, coach lighting & heating not working, left Leeds on time & over 40 mins late into Manchester. - Happy times !!! Here is the leaky old girl. Brit15

Wonderful era - been modelling this era since 2003 !! "Death Steam" sounds a bit drastic, though its exactly what happened, steam died drastically. Bit of everything on my layout glorified train set, built to recall my teens, the layout I dreamed for in the 60's, but could not either afford or assemble in my Tri-ang TT days back then. The Heljan Lion is way out of date (to early), Xmas present from Mrs. Had to get one though, a beautiful loco. She takes the spotlight (only at the moment) !!. Quite a few other things are "just" out of date (65-68) on my layout, but it doesn't really bother me, stock is easily interchanged, the infrastructure was so mixed also back then. Brit15

Nice photo. Train is at Amberswood west junction, on the Whelley loop line around Wigan. More than likely route was through Blackburn to Adlington and then to Red Rock, joining the Whelley loop line there. It is signalled for the line to Fir Tree House Jcn, then on to Ince Moss Jcn and then to St Helens & Widnes. Good RCH plan of the railways round Wigan here. http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/LNWR/BamfurlomngMap.jpg Nice red Wigan weeds !!!!!!!!!! Edited to add - There are some cracking photos of 9F's and these Anhydrite trains around Widnes on the above (3 at Buxton) Flikr site, Thanks for the link Michael. Brit15

As I said, its a generation thing, and, yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The late 60's were unique with the last gasps of steam mixed with the new blue, and all in between, we will never see such diversity on our railways again. It was, however, MY era, when I was coming of age. Probably not the best of times in many, many areas as Kenton remarked above, but it was a wonderful time for me (that's why I model it), as indeed the 70's were to Wombatofudham and (I presume) the late 40's and 50's were to Coach. Must go quickly, the Brussel sprouts have transformed to gas !!!!! Brit15

Back to 1967, a trip to Leeds, first "long" journey on my own. Desparate to see a "6"er or two before they disappeared (6 er - ex LNER locos starting with 6 - didn't see many at Wigan). I was a bit late, only 62005 at Holbeck & 2 B1's at Wakefield for the scrapper (61123 & 61189). The log and the pictures tell the story. Hold curser on photo for description What a day out for a 14 year old on his own !! Brit15

In some ways, though, I agree with Coach. It's a generation thing, depends on how old you were back then at the end of steam. I can well understand the feeling of those who worked on BR in it's prime, the 1950's, seeing the demise of steam in very bad conditions. I (we) were young and daft back then, loved steam but found the new blue diesels and electrics exciting also, and the mix of them all was fascinating to a young Brit15 back then. This is the next neg after the above, also at Edgeley same day. Michael sums it up above Back then there was an interesting infrastructure mix. Buildings and signals etc from the pre-grouping, big four influence everywhere and the swank new electrics, Mk 2 coaches and repainted diesels in the Blue / Grey livery (which for me has not been bettered). It was EVERYWHERE also, literally, everywhere. Most places were busy also, still lots of trainload freight with the new block trains, 100t tanks, freightliners etc. This was the case also well after the demise of steam, up to the 80's, though it was in steady decline, as was my interest "in the real thing" back then. As for the current scene, apart from the colourful trains the scene is generally devoid of interest to me, though a visit by train to Liverpool last week gave me some optimism, as new overhead masts are starting to line the Wigan - Liverpool route. New infrastructure at last !!!!!!!!!!!!! At least, through modelling, and rmweb we can all keep our respective era's of interest alive, and that, surely, is what it is all about. Happy Xmas to all, and perhaps, one day Coach, we may see OHLE masts and catenary strung through your model of Greenfield !! Brit15

You forgot to add some YOUNG people on your shed scenes coach !!. Dressed in flared jeans, corduroy coat and thin leather tie !!!!!!!!!! Not all bad back then, The old bugge*s were grumpy, railfans and railwaymen, (some still are !!!!!!). I was a young lad when I took this photo of my trainspotting mates at Stockport Edgeley on 3 June 1967. I was 15 on that very day, mate similar age and his younger brother aged 12. Did Heaton Mersey & Newton Heath the same day. Yes the loco's were mucky, diesels and all. Grand days, grime, DMU's, grass, weeds, cinder paths and all. I still smile when I recall these wonderful days out shedbashing. :sungum: Brit15

2 Scousers are riding along the M62 from Manchester to Liverpool on a motorbike. They break down and start hitching a lift. A friendly trucker stops to see if he can help and the scousers ask him for a lift. He tells them he has no room in the wagon as he is carrying 20,000 bowling balls but will take a look at the bike for them. He tries everything he knows but is unable to repair it. Time is getting on now and he's late for his delivery so he tells the scousers he has to leave. "R hey lad" they say "gissa lift". The trucker once again explains that he has no room as he is carrying 20,000 bowling balls. The scousers put it to the driver that if they can manage to fit in the back will he take them and he agrees. They manage to squeeze themselves and their motorbike into the back of the wagon so the driver shuts the doors and gets off on his way. By this time he is really late and so puts his foot down. Sure enough PC Plod of Greater Manchester Police pulls him up for speeding. The good officer asks the driver what he is carrying to which he replies Scouse Eggs. The policeman obviously doesn't believe this so wants to take a look. He opens the back door and quickly shuts it and locks it. He gets onto his radio and calls for immediate backup from as many officers as possible. The dispatcher asks what emergency he has that requires so many officers. "I've got a wagon with 20,000 Scouse eggs in it - 2 have already hatched and the b*****ds have managed to nick a motorbike already". Brit15

I'm glad my photos (well,my dad's in this instance) have been of use to a fellow modeller. I,m sorting out some more posts. Some interesting and rare (I hope !) stuff to come soon. Brit 15

It's neither, it's a Big D !!! Brit15